[Discussion] Ukraine - Russian Invasion and Discussion

A place for aggregated discussions of a possible conflict, it’s implications and effects, news updates and personal accounts if any. If the expected conflict kicks off, I will change the title but the function will stay the same.

Gotta admit, not that I'm searching it out, but the anti-Zelensky vitriol from RW cowards who'd sh*t their pants and sign up for Wagner the moment they were in a position like has been a bit of a shock, which it really shouldn't be by now, I should know there's no bottom.

I’m mostly waiting for the two shrill harpies Marjorie Taylor f*ckwit and her mini me Loren Boebert to stop cat fighting long enough to say something stupid about zelensky before going back to their double wides to fry some roadkill.

Prederick wrote:

Gotta admit, not that I'm searching it out, but the anti-Zelensky vitriol from RW cowards who'd sh*t their pants and sign up for Wagner the moment they were in a position like has been a bit of a shock, which it really shouldn't be by now, I should know there's no bottom.

Oh no. In no world are they signing up to face off against a bunch of trained UKR killers and Georgian Legion destroyers.

All cowards.

Paleocon wrote:

I’m mostly waiting for the two shrill harpies Marjorie Taylor f*ckwit and her mini me Loren Boebert to stop cat fighting long enough to say something stupid about zelensky before going back to their double wides to fry some roadkill.

Don’t worry, Tucker Carlson beat them to it.

I believe Kevin McCarthy was right (!) that Putin pays Dana Rohrabacher and Individual 1, but I cannot but think that Tucker Carlson is also on the payroll.

Because surely there is nothing more exemplary of honorable, upstanding American pride and principle than openly propagandizing for a communist dictatorship to annihilate a European democracy. Truly that position is absolutely consistent with conservativism and its principled support of the last century of American policy and action in Europe.

Archangel wrote:

I believe Kevin McCarthy was right (!) that Putin pays Dana Rohrabacher and Individual 1, but I cannot but think that Tucker Carlson is also on the payroll.

Because surely there is nothing more exemplary of honorable, upstanding American pride and principle than openly propagandizing for a communist dictatorship to annihilate a European democracy. Truly that position is absolutely consistent with conservativism and its principled support of the last century of American policy and action in Europe.

Let's not forget who was pushing America First back in the 30's. Charles Lindbergh would have quite a lot in common with Tuck, MTG and Boebert.

Archangel wrote:

I believe Kevin McCarthy was right (!) that Putin pays Dana Rohrabacher and Individual 1, but I cannot but think that Tucker Carlson is also on the payroll.

Because surely there is nothing more exemplary of honorable, upstanding American pride and principle than openly propagandizing for a communist dictatorship to annihilate a European democracy. Truly that position is absolutely consistent with conservativism and its principled support of the last century of American policy and action in Europe.

While I agree with your main point, I can't help thinking that calling Russia "communist" in 2022 is also taking a smaller but not insignificant step towards conservative propaganda.

It is a dictatorship, though.

Robear wrote:

It is a dictatorship, though.

The Republican ideal. The shining autocracy on the hill.

The shining *oligarchic* autocracy, on the Hill.

As it is known, conservatism is that there will be In Groups to be protected and Out Groups to be dominated.

Dezlen wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I’m mostly waiting for the two shrill harpies Marjorie Taylor f*ckwit and her mini me Loren Boebert to stop cat fighting long enough to say something stupid about zelensky before going back to their double wides to fry some roadkill.

Don’t worry, Tucker Carlson beat them to it.

Yeah. Hopefully, he’ll choke on Putin’s c*ck and leave a bloated corpse.

Top_Shelf wrote:

As it is known, conservatism is that there will be In Groups to be protected and Out Groups to be dominated.

The sad part is Trump won't even protect his "In Group," he thinks they are gross, poor, dirty trash. They are just another grift farm.

Mixolyde wrote:
Top_Shelf wrote:

As it is known, conservatism is that there will be In Groups to be protected and Out Groups to be dominated.

The sad part is Trump won't even protect his "In Group," he thinks they are gross, poor, dirty trash. They are just another grift farm.

Trump's In Group consists solely of Trump. I don't think even his kids make the cut.

This is truth, and always has been, with the possible exception of Roy Cohn.

ISW says the two most likely scenarios for offensive Russian ground action are in northern Luhansk or Belarus. The latter is less likely and probably an information operation but represents what they refer to as worst case scenario.

The Ukrainians appear to be operating with their own initiative in mind rate than being reactive. Signs continue to point towards a Zaporizhia offensive that Russia will be unable to resist unless it can divert forces through spoiling attacks.

The open question is whether or not UKR has the reserve force necessary to complete a cutoff of the land bridge. If the answer is yes, Crimea goes from precarious asset to poison chalice.

More falling out of windows...

Russian sausage magnate-turned-lawmaker Pavel Antov died in India on Saturday after falling from the third floor of his hotel, according to the Indian police.

Antov’s death came after his friend and travel companion Vladimir Budanov died of a heart attack on Antov’s 65th birthday, two days earlier, Vivekanand Sharma, a senior police official in India’s northeastern Odisha state, said Tuesday.

Antonov pledged his support for Putin last June when he was forced to deny having posted an anti-war message on WhatsApp. He blamed an “unfortunate misunderstanding and a technical error” and said the status had been deleted.

At least a dozen high-profile Russian businessmen have reportedly died by suicide or in unexplained accidents this year, with six of them associated with Russia’s two largest energy companies.

BBC article with more details, including quote from Indian police chief as this happened in India.

BBC wrote:

Reports in Russian media said Mr Antov, 65, had fallen from a window at the hotel in the city of Rayagada on Sunday. Another member of his four-strong Russian group, Vladimir Budanov, died at the hotel on Friday.

Superintendent Vivekananda Sharma of Odisha police said Mr Budanov was found to have suffered a stroke while his friend "was depressed after his death and he too died". The Russian consul in Kolkata, Alexei Idamkin, told the Tass news agency that police did not see a "criminal element in these tragic events".

Tourist guide Jitendra Singh told reporters that Mr Budanov may have "consumed a lot of alcohol as he had liquor bottles".

I'd like to know how these go down. In a foreign country at some high-end hotel, do just a bunch of Russian thugs show up to your hotel room and you let them in and then you just say, "OK, I'll jump," or is it a thing where RUS gives money to a bunch of the local cops to look the other way? I mean, I get that inside RUS that things work like The Godfather and everyone with any position of power in society should expect that they could be subject to this kind of stuff. But doing this on foreign soil? That seems super shaky.

ACAB, everywhere.

Engles AFB, where Russia has been launching cruise missile attacks on Ukraine from, was struck again by Ukrainian UAVs yesterday.

Russia claims that air defense shot down the drones, but the wreckage killed three servicemen and caused a small fire. Still no Russian statement on how those UAVs penetrated hundreds of kilometers into Russian territory without being detected and shot down before they reached their target (again).

There are posts on social media claiming that the attack was much more successful with dozens killed and wounded, five bombers damaged or destroyed, and the base's control tower destroyed.

There's no independent confirmation of anything like that and no post-attack satellite imagery has been published as of yet as happened after the December 5th attack.

Top_Shelf, I remember years ago a neighbor of a Moscow dissident who died via defenstration said that he saw several leather jacket clad heavies tromp up the stairs of the apartment building. Literally a minute or two later he heard a mass of loud footsteps crossing the room above, followed by a crash and a screaming body. Then they tromped back down the stairs.

So at least in that case, the cause of death could be "Bum's Rush".

I found this quote in CNN's Live Updates feed on Ukraine (so might be a lot of scrolling to get to it), and it seemed so hilariously detached from reality. I mean, they can't really expect anyone to take this seriously, right?

CNN wrote:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Monday that Ukraine must fulfil Moscow's proposals regarding their "new territories" — or the Russian military would take action, according to Russian state news agency TASS.

... What exactly are they going to do? Invade?

"I know you keep kicking us out of area after area, but don't try it again or you'll be sorry! This time we'll actually do something to stop you! I mean it!"

They're just trying to get rid of all the Nazi's!

Yeah. I saw the lavrov statement and immediately thought “cope”.

Keldar wrote:

"I know you keep kicking us out of area after area, but don't try it again or you'll be sorry! This time we'll actually do something to stop you! I mean it!"

[Fezzik]"Anybody want a peanut?"[/Fezzik]

Ukraine fighting is deadlocked, spy chief Kyrylo Budanov tells BBC

Fighting in Ukraine is currently at a deadlock as neither Ukraine nor Russia can make significant advances, the head of the Ukrainian military intelligence agency has said, while Kyiv waits for more advanced weapons from Western allies.

"The situation is just stuck," Kyrylo Budanov told the BBC in an interview. "It doesn't move."

After Ukrainian troops recaptured the southern city of Kherson in November, most of the fiercest battles have been around Bakhmut, in the eastern Donetsk region. Elsewhere, Russian forces appear to be on the defensive while winter has slowed down the pace of Ukraine's ground operations across the 1,000km (620-mile) front line.

Mr Budanov said Russia was "now completely at a dead end" suffering very significant losses, and he believed the Kremlin had decided to announce another mobilisation of conscripts. But, he added, Ukrainian forces still lacked resources to move forward in multiple areas.

"We can't defeat them in all directions comprehensively. Neither can they," he said. "We're very much looking forward to new weapons supplies, and to the arrival of more advanced weapons."

Sigh, I guess I'm watching The Pentagon Wars again. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if Cary Elwes was dubbed over by Zelenskyy in the Ukrainian version.

Badferret wrote:

US considering giving Ukraine Bradleys.

Do it.

In a lot of ways Bradleys would be a more significant force improvement than abrams tanks. Particularly the older ones we have been considering.

The Bradley is far easier to maintain, far less resource intensive, and more mission flexible. Most important however is the fact that its sensor suite is superior in almost every way from the early abrams. So much was the difference that the Bradleys were largely considered the decisive difference in the battle of 73 Easting in desert storm.

And if there is one clear lesson we are learning repeatedly in Ukraine, it is that vehicles with antiquated or ineffective sensors might as well jut be static targets irrespective of their armor or armament.

Brads will own the night.