Hidden Gems of Netflix's Watch Instantly

Saw All Quiet on the Western Front. That's a war movie that is hard to watch. It captures the hell that was WWI. It is dubbed in English, but you can barely tell.

It's the speed in which they make their decision. It kills the chances for word of mouth to build around shows. Like if they were using the performance metrics after 6 months, I wouldn't have an issue with the decision making process (though I'm sure I'd still lament many of the individual decisions), but they're often not even waiting a single month to cancel shows that go on to perform much better over a longer span of time. It also makes them very vulnerable to "fan" campaigns trying to sink shows for being "too woke".

Stengah wrote:

It's the speed in which they make their decision. It kills the chances for word of mouth to build around shows. Like if they were using the performance metrics after 6 months, I wouldn't have an issue with the decision making process (though I'm sure I'd still lament many of the individual decisions), but they're often not even waiting a single month to cancel shows that go on to perform much better over a longer span of time. It also makes them very vulnerable to "fan" campaigns trying to sink shows for being "too woke".

In our social media saturated age, I'm not sure that 'word of mouth' takes as long to build anymore. I feel that it's now days rather than weeks. And certainly not something that takes months to gather momentum.

On the performance data, it's difficult to know whether Netflix shows are going on to perform well after being cancelled. in the UK at least, Netflix only joined BARB - our audience rating system - at the start of November. The early results suggest that even Netflix's highest rated shows aren't pulling in that many viewers compared with other channels.

However, Netflix has been streaming content - and collecting the associated data - for 15 years. They, at least, are feel confident that they don't need months of viewing data to make commissioning decisions.

To your point about fan campaigns to sink shows for being too woke: surely being so reliant on hard viewer data makes Netflex less susceptible to such campaigns? The only thing Netflix is they're interested in is whether (and how much) their subscribers actually watch their shows. I'm sure they're almost entirely unmoved by anything else.

In the UK, they've been getting serious 'stick' about 'The Crown' for the last couple of years, but that show remains resolutely uncancelled.

Yeah I was not trying to be too snarky but I was trying to head off any weird back and forth that was about to occur.

My opinion is movies always are better if their original language. Like others said it seems there is always better nuance and meaning. I'm also a fast reader so it does not draw my attention as much from the visual aspect of it.

ranalin wrote:

With the subtitles the acting is much better than the dubbed version, less wooden and more nuanced.

I always prefer subbed. I watch TV while at my computer. But I tried to watch Dark with English dub and the voice acting was just terrible. So I have it on my list to some day watch with subtitles.

Some day.

I had to put on closed captioning for all the dialogue in 1899 because the sound mix was so bad. Netflix seems to like having sound effects so loud they shake the walls and muddy dialogue you can barely make out.

It's like everyone who works there is either watching their shows on their phone or in their fifty seat private home theatre.

detroit20 wrote:

At the risk of displaying my confirmation bias, I cannot imagine another 'network' commissioning programmes like 'The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt', 'Love. Death. + Robots' or even 'Stranger Things'. Or, of course, 'Dark'.

The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt was, though, the entire first season. Commissioned by NBC Universal, it almost made it to air on NBC before being sent to Netflix.

Wednesday [Addams]:

It's amazing to me to think that almost everything Addams Family related that has come out in my lifetime up to this point couldn't have been conceived of by Charles Addams because he literally created the franchise almost 100 years ago.

detroit20 wrote:

In our social media saturated age, I'm not sure that 'word of mouth' takes as long to build anymore. I feel that it's now days rather than weeks. And certainly not something that takes months to gather momentum.

But the problem that Stengah is referring to is that it's been reported multiple times that the metrics they care about to make these decisions are renewals or completion within the first 28 days. Even with word of mouth, if you are not the type of person who binges all 12 episodes of a show the first weekend it's released and then cancels your subscription, your viewership matters much less. Which in turn directly influences the type of content being greenlit to start with.

Additionally, just as with music charts, there's always a cyclical problem where a lot of marketing effort is put into certain shows "finding an audience" and the rest are left to fend for themselves. For all the talk that these streaming shows provide recommendations based on your viewing habits, despite the fact that I log into Netflix multiple times a week, it's now become the majority of times where I learn about the existence of Netflix originals I would actually be interested in only by the news articles telling me it's been cancelled. The app is more interested in harassing me with yet another Stranger Things ad instead.

kuddles wrote:

But the problem that Stengah is referring to is that it's been reported multiple times that the metrics they care about to make these decisions are renewals or completion within the first 28 days. Even with word of mouth, if you are not the type of person who binges all 12 episodes of a show the first weekend it's released and then cancels your subscription, your viewership matters much less. Which in turn directly influences the type of content being greenlit to start with.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that those aren't the most relevant or useful metrics for Netflix's commissioning department. It may be that very few customers actual get round to finishing tv shows or movies after 28 days. (I know that my Netflix 'pile of shame' is pretty substantial.) And it may be that Neflix's business model depends on re-acquisitions.

I know that the comparisons aren't exact, but this would be consistent with the medium of video games. We know that the majority of players don't ever finish them.

kuddles wrote:

Additionally, just as with music charts, there's always a cyclical problem where a lot of marketing effort is put into certain shows "finding an audience" and the rest are left to fend for themselves. For all the talk that these streaming shows provide recommendations based on your viewing habits, despite the fact that I log into Netflix multiple times a week, it's now become the majority of times where I learn about the existence of Netflix originals I would actually be interested in only by the news articles telling me it's been cancelled. The app is more interested in harassing me with yet another Stranger Things ad instead.

I agree with your point about marketing. Most TV shows and movies aren't marketed at all, beyond the Netflix home page. But I'm not sure whether this is (a) a problem, and (b) solvable. Specifically on (b), I don't know that Neflix has enough money to market all of the shows that it's commissioned around the world. Isn't the production budget alone around $17 billion?

I also share your experience of 'missing' Netflix originals. But I think that's mostly my own fault. In several cases, the show or movie has been recommended... I just didn't really think I'd be interested and scrolled past it. In the case of other shows, it wasn't recommended because I've trained the algorithm badly.

I am fairly sure that recommendations are made based on our full range of viewing habits, which includes all not only what we watch (whether we finish it or not), but also the recommendations we ignore, how long we spend reading an advert before moving on and the searches we make (and what we do with the search results). I suspect that I would be exposed to more varied and - potentially - compelling content if I clicked on and viewed more content that wasn't immediately in my wheelhouse.

As a result, I'm certain that my Netflix page looks very different from yours (and very different from most other people). I doubt that even our 'New On Netflix' sections look the same, EXCEPT for the inclusion of Netflix's biggest new shows. I'm sure that everyone gets harassed by 'Stranger Things'.

To digress slightly: I think that Netflix holds up a mirror, and I am sometimes uncomfortable with the image that it reflects back to me. I think that I spend my time watching for thoughtful Chilean dramas, like 'Nobody Knows I'm Here'. But, in reality, Netflix knows that I'm actually searching for sequels to dreadful martial arts travesties like 'Jiu Jitsu'.

I've re-read my previous post, and realised that I probably come across as Netflix 'Stan'. I'm not.

But I do believe that Netflix might just be the single best thing to happen to TV since the launch of satellite tv.

kuddles wrote:

Even with word of mouth, if you are not the type of person who binges all 12 episodes of a show the first weekend it's released and then cancels your subscription, your viewership matters much less. Which in turn directly influences the type of content being greenlit to start with.

I actually am the type of viewer that renews when something I like comes on, and then cancels immediately after. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to result in original content I enjoy lasting past the typical three seasons.

We have a bilingual house, so English subtitles are always on even when it's in English. Not only have I gotten used to this, but have realized that in some series (looking at you West Wing), I had missed quite a bit of dialogue that I assumed I'd understood/heard.

But for stand up...I just can't do it. You see every single punchline early. Every single time.

Also, since English subtitles for English movies/series are written for the hearing impaired, you get fun descriptions of the mood of the background music in parentheses, a lot: " (mysterious music), (exciting dance beat), (meditative mood music)," etc.

Watched Troll which was very fun. Other than not being in a normal kaiju setting it doesn't really deviate from the formula that much, but it does a really good job in keeping the pieces of that formula interesting and was enjoyable the whole time. Definitely recommended if you like big monster movies.

Roo wrote:

Also, since English subtitles for English movies/series are written for the hearing impaired, you get fun descriptions of the mood of the background music in parentheses, a lot: " (mysterious music), (exciting dance beat), (meditative mood music)," etc.

lol some of these are amazing, forgot which show, but me and some friends still comment on 'throbbing introspective music' when things get serious around us

ranalin wrote:
Roo wrote:

Also, since English subtitles for English movies/series are written for the hearing impaired, you get fun descriptions of the mood of the background music in parentheses, a lot: " (mysterious music), (exciting dance beat), (meditative mood music)," etc.

lol some of these are amazing, forgot which show, but me and some friends still comment on 'throbbing introspective music' when things get serious around us

Wednesday.

merphle wrote:
ranalin wrote:
Roo wrote:

Also, since English subtitles for English movies/series are written for the hearing impaired, you get fun descriptions of the mood of the background music in parentheses, a lot: " (mysterious music), (exciting dance beat), (meditative mood music)," etc.

lol some of these are amazing, forgot which show, but me and some friends still comment on 'throbbing introspective music' when things get serious around us

Wednesday.

It was something earlier, almost a year ago at this point...

Roo wrote:

We have a bilingual house, so English subtitles are always on even when it's in English. Not only have I gotten used to this, but have realized that in some series (looking at you West Wing), I had missed quite a bit of dialogue that I assumed I'd understood/heard.

I took a break from work earlier today and went down to visit my wife in her office. She had West Wing going with subtitles on. I noticed that the subtitles would be missing words and even a whole sentence at one point.

I know nothing about how subtitles get into shows. It makes me wonder if one way it happens is volunteers do it.

-BEP

One way is volunteer organizations (that are usually partially funded by various studios) and other is using AI (like Youtube). The second can definitely produce some odd subtitles and still requires proofreading by a human.

Adjectives and adverbs can get dropped for brevity, allowing the subtitles to keep up with the dialog/scene pace while not taking up a lot of screen space and still be consumable. But there are challenges to also conveying mood and emotion. Search for “art of subtitling” for plenty of material on the subject.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

One way is volunteer organizations (that are usually partially funded by various studios) and other is using AI (like Youtube). The second can definitely produce some odd subtitles and still requires proofreading by a human.

Even the "professional" ones need proofreading. I see errors all the time.

I've noticed a lot of times anime on Netflix will have subs that don't match dubs. Very annoying during times I want to have both.

Subtitles are going to be a different translation from a dub. Words on the screen don't have to worry about matching lip movement/time spent speaking and can be a more literal translation of the original. If you want words on screen that match a dub, you want the "closed captions" accessibility feature.

I finished Wednesday a few days ago and loved every moment. One thing that keeps sticking in my mind is how the main character compares with the title character of The Sandman- both start out with the idea of "ugh... people... why would I ever want to care about them?" and throughout the show you see slight cracks in the armor they've put up.

I mean overwise they're very different shows in scope and concept (despite Sandman's Lucifer being the headmistress of Wednesday's school), but it was interesting to compare the two.

It took me a good long time to finish Cabinet of Curiosities and missed most of the conversations about it.

For me it was a steady decline in enjoyment after the first 3 episodes. "The Outside" was alright; it was drawn out and pretty one-note. The next two didn't land for me either. These were the ones about art and the dead sister.

"The Viewing" picked things up again though there was no plot to speak of and barely anything happened. The mood and aesthetics were wonderful and I enjoyed seeing Peter Weller again as well as seeing Eric Andre do something besides being his other persona.

I had high hopes for "The Murmuring" and it was fine. The scenes of marital discord were the strongest bits for me. The ghostly stuff was all extremely predictable and rote.

Appreciate the variety still and I hope they can roll out a stronger set of stories in a future season.

I just started it myself. Maybe my expectations were too high but I thought the first episode was a bit of a dud. At best I'd equate it to a mid-tier American Horror Stories episodes and the quality of those was pretty mixed. Hope it picks up.

I started Dragon Prince last week and am halfway through season three. Enjoying it a lot, but Rayla's butchered Scottish accent is pretty hard to get past.

Troll: too straight down the line for me. Troll Hunter was much better.

Roo wrote:

We have a bilingual house, so English subtitles are always on even when it's in English. Not only have I gotten used to this, but have realized that in some series (looking at you West Wing), I had missed quite a bit of dialogue that I assumed I'd understood/heard.

But for stand up...I just can't do it. You see every single punchline early. Every single time.

Also, since English subtitles for English movies/series are written for the hearing impaired, you get fun descriptions of the mood of the background music in parentheses, a lot: " (mysterious music), (exciting dance beat), (meditative mood music)," etc.

We watch everything with subs too. I do turn them off for standup though.

I enjoyed Troll.