[Discussion] On Television, Cinema and the Under Represented

Thread for race issues in media.

Birth Of a Nation
This movie isn't do so good. I think this is because black people are tired of slave type movies, white people don't want the white guilt, and everybody else is turned off by the rape case. I mean this in general. This is just a perfect storm for the downfall of the movie.

Surviving Compton
Straight out of compton left out the ladies. This lifetime show means to correct that. I believe all of the production was done by women.

Mulan live.
All Chinese cast. Maybe the dumb choices of Gods of Egypt are over.

Prederick wrote:

I've always thought the issue was a bit more complicated than the yelling people on Twitter would like to present it as.

For instance, in animated shows, I'm not insomuch about only hiring PoC voice actors to play PoC roles as I am just giving more opportunities to PoC VAs and other people in positions of power in production.

Totally agree. For example, I would rather watch a series based on Octavia Butler’s writings than see Black elves shoehorned into a new LOTR series.

Not me. I read both Earthseed books and they were so dark. I didn't enjoy them.

I’m not entirely against re envisioning the Uruk-hai in black and gold polo shirts either. Heck, the proud boys would probably see it as a compliment.

jdzappa wrote:
Prederick wrote:

I've always thought the issue was a bit more complicated than the yelling people on Twitter would like to present it as.

For instance, in animated shows, I'm not insomuch about only hiring PoC voice actors to play PoC roles as I am just giving more opportunities to PoC VAs and other people in positions of power in production.

Totally agree. For example, I would rather watch a series based on Octavia Butler’s writings than see Black elves shoehorned into a new LOTR series.

Well, we'll disagree pretty strongly on the last part.

I'll admit to having raised an eyebrow at the black Velaryons in House of the Dragon, but after the first episode... nope, I was wrong, the show creators were right, there are a LOT of characters to keep track of and anything they can do to make them more visually distinct is appreciated, and also Steve Touissant is great and I want to see more of him and his character.

I read that Lord Corlys is supposed to be getting a spin-off show though I wouldn't be surprised if that gets axed considering the way things are going at WBD.

Prederick wrote:
jdzappa wrote:
Prederick wrote:

I've always thought the issue was a bit more complicated than the yelling people on Twitter would like to present it as.

For instance, in animated shows, I'm not insomuch about only hiring PoC voice actors to play PoC roles as I am just giving more opportunities to PoC VAs and other people in positions of power in production.

Totally agree. For example, I would rather watch a series based on Octavia Butler’s writings than see Black elves shoehorned into a new LOTR series.

Well, we'll disagree pretty strongly on the last part.

Sorry for the late reply - due to work and PAX I haven't been following the site that closely. I just wanted to clarify that I fully support diversity in LOTR. Some of their choices just felt forced, but I'll withhold any judgement till I actually get a chance to binge the show this week.

FWIW, I am once again, so annoyed that the BS culture war sh*t has come to another show I don't care about, and now I feel like I have to leave it on in another room to support it or something.

Prederick wrote:

FWIW, I am once again, so annoyed that the BS culture war sh*t has come to another show I don't care about, and now I feel like I have to leave it on in another room to support it or something.

That feeling? That's fandom f*cking with you.

I'll never understand racists. Your viewing experience is ruined because Rivendell doesn't look like a Klan rally? Come on.

Don't try to look for logic in it, you won't find it.

The one place where it seemed to potentially make a little bit of sense was the Velaryons on House of the Dragon, because in the books, that is a family of very very light-skinned people obsessed with in-universe ideas of racial purity. Casting them with black actors is a little like casting a black Nazi general in a WWII movie; yeah, you CAN do it, but unless you're trying to make a very specific statement by doing so, is it really a good idea?

But like I mentioned above, I fully admit to having been just plain wrong about that one, which is why I try to give these decisions the benefit of the doubt and keep my dumb mouth shut until I see the final product.

Agent 86 wrote:

I'll never understand racists. Your viewing experience is ruined because Rivendell doesn't look like a Klan rally? Come on.

hbi2k wrote:

Don't try to look for logic in it, you won't find it.

The logic is "I don't like black people so I shouldn't have to see them on TV."

The same issue they have with actors who are LGBTQ+, Muslim, female...

It's that meme picture with the reactionary YouTube neckbeard, where it's five white people and that is "normal" and then you add one black person or LGTBQ person and now he's frowning because "you made it political."

When sh*tty worlds collide.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/JcNlW5t.png)

I mean, I do appreciate him acknowledging that "woke" in this context just means "non-white".

“Don’t misinterpret this as racist, but you seem to have included a black person in your movie and I fixed it.” Oy.

I'm at a loss for how else to interpret it.

The fact that the creator of that post probably sincerely thinks he "isn't racist" says so much about how society as a whole has allowed the term to be marginalized into meaninglessness in order to make racists comfortable.

That was a cya, that guy definitely knows he is a racist.

"Well, everyone knows all real mermaids are white."

Having had this exact conversation recently - both regarding Ariel and James Bond (who racists claim should not ever be played by the likes of Idris Elba) - the answer is always “but the creators of these properties made them white,” to which of course the rebuttal is blessedly obvious.

SallyNasty wrote:

That was a cya, that guy definitely knows he is a racist.

He specifically addressed the note to Twitter for exactly that reason.

Dear Twitter: Please do not censure me for my obvious racism.

Dear Everyone Else: Hey check out this racist sh*t I'm about to drop on you.

So here is the situation. A movie reviewer called out a character in the movie Bodies, Bodies, Bodies for showing off to much cleavage. The actress DM the reviewer stating she should have watched the movie instead of her boobs.

The reviewer then claimed the actress was a cis girl attacking her because she is a lesbian and that she was using her fans to attack her. Personally I think she is racist POS that couldn't handle being callout on BS. Note the actress is non binary and believe currently dating a lady. Also I didn't notice her cleavage at all and didn't think the movie sexualize anyone. Her statement was clearly sexist to me. Her statements on the movie itself were correct, it wasn't all that good and probably the worse A24 movie I have seen.

Now as a reviewer she should be aware that black actors especially black female actors get a lot of S thrown at them. And a actress that also has a sizable chest is going to get even more S like the one lady from Mad Men and Firefly. So knowing this lady chose to attack this black woman publicly and also labeled her incorrectly to fire up base to attack her. She literally did what she accused this actress of doing.

The video is of a trans black woman that I follow that explained the situation perfectly. I actually heard about somewhere else first but just got around to this video in my feed that reminded me of this drama.

Never mind the fact that there a lot of shooting the messenger to begin with - call out the costume designer who dressed that actor that way if you have a beef with the costume.

It's the Internet, you get extra credit just for knowing that the actor and the character are different people.

Top Gear's Jeremy Clarkson *really* hates Meghan Markle.

It's quite the blend of misogyny and, of course, unspoken racism.

And it's something that The Sun basically said "that's some vitally important big brain thinking there, Jeremy, let's share it with a couple million people."

The Sun wrote:

WE all know in our heart of hearts that Harold Markle is a slightly dim but fun-loving chin who flew Apache helicopter gunships in Afghanistan and cavorted around Las Vegas hotel rooms with naked hookers.

But then along came Meghan, who obviously used some vivid bedroom promises to turn him into a warrior of woke.

And now it seems that she has her arm so far up his bottom, she can use her fingers to alter his facial expressions.

I actually feel rather sorry for him because today he’s just a glove puppet with no more control over what he says or does than Basil Brush.

Meghan, though, is a different story. I hate her.

Not like I hate Nicola Sturgeon or Rose West. I hate her on a cellular level.

At night, I’m unable to sleep as I lie there, grinding my teeth and dreaming of the day when she is made to parade naked through the streets of every town in Britain while the crowds chant, “Shame!” and throw lumps of excrement at her.

Everyone who’s my age thinks the same way.

But what makes me despair is that younger people, especially girls, think she’s pretty cool.

They think she was a prisoner of Buckingham Palace, forced to talk about nothing but embroidery and kittens.

That makes me even angrier. Can’t they see everything that’s happening is so very obviously pre-planned.

Leave the UK. Blame the royals. Do an interview with Oprah.

Get Basil Brush to write a book. Do a Netflix series — which should have been called A Woman, Talking Bollocks.

I can see it clearly. The studied pauses. The mock incredulity.

And the B-movie, soap-actress, quivery-voiced, more-in-sorrow-than-anger stories that are so obviously claptrap.

Do you really think she would have entertained a move to New Zealand? That’s 13 hours away from everything.

The spotlight of fame she craves so desperately would have been a 40-watt bulb, and no one would have seen it.

Nah. She was always going to end up in California.

And I can tell you, with absolute certainty, what’s coming next.

Harold’s Spare book will be released.

Then she’ll do one called I Think I May Be God. And then she’ll have exhausted the whole royal thing — so will be off.

We will see Diana-style photographs of her, all on her own, outside the Taj Mahal.

And then she will be pictured gazing into the middle distance, on the back of a playboy’s superyacht and will marry a tech billionaire and they’ll have a child called something vomitty like Peace. Or Truth.

Or Love.

Harold, meanwhile, will be stuck in California with no friends, either there or here, no family to support him and an army of young girls who’ll believe Meghan’s story that the marriage break-up was all his fault because he’s, like, you know, sooooo a man.

And the Royal Family?

She’s going to damage them — be in no doubt about that.

Because one day soon, my generation will all be dead, and we will be replaced by a new bunch who are growing up believing that Charles and William and Co are bullies who are waited on hand and foot by slaves, eunuchs and spin doctors.

Unless, of course, when Meghan takes her hand out of the ginger glove puppet, he remembers who he is and gives us “the” truth.

Not hers.

That's a whole lot of cringe in one place.

Man, just walking around with that much white rage must be exhausting.

Also f*ck that guy.

I'm just going to assume that if you are an old, white dude and not actively working on yourself that you have similar problematic beliefs that inform similar problematic actions when I am not looking. It's just the world you grew up in and your failure to actively reject it makes you part of the problem.

Paleocon wrote:

It's just the world you grew up in and your failure to actively reject it makes you part of the problem.

This is the crux of where the bulk of my frustration with so, so many people that I know and have known throughout my life rests. They get so defensive and frustrated when called out on problematic comments or beliefs/opinions, and if the expended even a fraction as much mental energy on learning empathy and bettering themselves as they do on mental gymnastics to excuse those problematic attitudes and statements, we would all be better off.

And I'm not even just referring to racism. I'm referring to... everything, basically. Sexism, bigotry against anyone who isn't gender- or hetero-normative (and apologies if that terminology is outdated, please do educate me), classism, ethnic/religious bigotry, jingoism, pretty much everything. Just... ARGH. So much. Challenging the least bit of their attitudes as problematic gets a response that would lead you to believe I just drop-kicked a baby into a blender or something. "OH SO JUST BECAUSE I MADE ONE COMMENT ON ACCIDENT ONE TIME THAT MAKES ME A RACIST, WELL WHAT ABOUT WHEN THAT BLACK PERSON CALLED ME A CRACKER FIFTY YEARS AGO" (all caps because they're practically yelling at that point)

You know what? Yes. Yes, the fact that you allow one anecdote (that is probably conveniently leaving out whatever you did to piss that person off, likely of a racist nature) to justify an insensitive and/or bigoted remark fifty years later does mean that you're racist. So f*ck off with your rationalizations.

I'm sure I say or think plenty of unintentionally racist things even to this day despite my attempts to better myself. Does that make me racist? YES, THAT'S THE POINT. We have to consciously strive to be anti-racist, because to do otherwise means to accept passive racism at a minimum. Yes, that means it takes mental effort, and apparently that's "too much work" for some people. Well, those people are selfish assholes.

...sorry, rant off. f*cking hell.