[Discussion] Climate Change

This thread is just to post interesting news, thoughts, opinions about climate change.

Out of curiosity I spent 15 minutes looking up what can be done with the brine produced from desalination. The simplest application seems to be salt for de-icing roads. It seems in the past 3 years only one study has looked at chemical treatment into hydrochloric acid or caustic soda, and another small study in repurposing it into fertiliser for tomatoes (a salt resistant plant). There are theoretical extractions of metals and other minerals, but all of these studies probably haven't gained traction because...nothing approaches being economically feasible. Money is literally going to be the cause of death for this planet and humanity.

The desalination process is also a big contributor to greenhouse gas emissions. Whoops!

Bfgp wrote:

Money is literally going to be the cause of death for this planet and humanity.

Pretty much, yes. The pursuit and accumulation of wealth and power over others are the root of damn near all of our problems as a civilization, and the reason why nowhere near enough will be done to preserve the world that we have known for most of our civilization's history.

Nothing new, sadly, been beating this drum pretty much forever.

Hunger boat!

Great new book out from science journalist Gaia Vincent, called "Nomad Century". It's about the inevitability of climate migrations, and their necessity, and the issues and benefits if done correctly. And also the problems that ensue if we decide to hold to strong borders, and how migration has been a beneficial part of human history forever.

The MAGA-heads will spin off reading this, but it's a necessary look square in the face at a problem that is already with us, and will only continue to grow.

I do appreociate the Tweets I'll say trying to keep people's spirits up and insisting it's absolutely not too late to avert climate catastrophe, and then finding out about books like this.

(FWIW, there does seem to be a pretty good bit of disagreement over whether we are Not Totally Screwed Yet, Screwed But We Can Still Do Something, or Jesus Christ We're F*cked.)

The authors are definitely making some controversial arguments, and that's probably being kind.

those authors wrote:

A lot of past talk of population control has been based in white supremacy, but that doesn’t mean we can ignore the question of what’s a sustainable population. That’s the kind of thing that people have bristled against. We don’t have a solution. But the fact that there aren’t easy and obvious solutions doesn’t mean that you can ignore the issue.

In many ways, the turn to eco fascism among environmentalists who claim to be not fascists was inevitable. I constantly need to resist the temptation myself.

I don’t share the “full scale societal collapse” view that these eco fascists share, although it would be foolish to ignore the coming climate wars. And because I don’t share that view, it’s easier for me to balance a sustainable future where everyone has a seat at the table and a stake in the future against the ableism and transphobia upon which these authors insist are inevitable.

Prederick wrote:

(FWIW, there does seem to be a pretty good bit of disagreement over whether we are Not Totally Screwed Yet, Screwed But We Can Still Do Something, or Jesus Christ We're F*cked.)

People tend to frame the issue as a binary like this, but the reality is of course not black and white. The fact is that every year (or month) of inaction has an associated cost in human lives that's only getting exponentially worse over time. So there's always time to still do something, even if some level of death and destruction is already locked in.

I'm almost tempted to think that the "it's too late to do anything" message is a psyop by the fossil industry to make us apathetic.

This won’t make anyone feel better but the level of totally f*cked you are is (roughly) correlated to how much money you have.

Seth wrote:

This won’t make anyone feel better but the level of totally f*cked you are is (roughly) correlated to how much money you have.

And in what country/continent you live in.

jontra wrote:

People tend to frame the issue as a binary like this

Trinary, as we must leave room for "Screwed But We Can Still Do Something"

Flooding of the Indus River in Pakistan. August 31, 2021 vs. August 31, 2022. The width of the image is 290 kilometers.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/H39SbLY.png)

Brutal heatwave scorches US west, sparking fires and health warnings

A record-breaking heatwave has scorched the US west, the latest in a string of extreme temperature events putting communities on high alert for heat-related illness and death as temperatures are expected to spike higher through the holiday weekend.

More than 50 million Americans live in areas now under excessive heat watches, warnings and advisories. Temperatures are expected to hit 115F (46C) in the coming days across parts of southern California, Sacramento and the San Joaquin Valley, according to the National Weather Service. In Death Valley, temperatures were forecast to reach more than 120F (49C) – and perhaps match the highest temperature observed globally in the month of September.

On Wednesday afternoon, heat records for this time of year broke in several California communities, including those near Los Angeles and San Diego. In Burbank and Woodland Hills, a suburb north of Los Angeles, temperatures rose to an alarming 112F (44C) smashing previous August records.

Amid Heat Wave, California Asks Electric Vehicle Owners to Limit Charging

Feel like this goes under "individual consumer choice will not save us from climate change."

That is just maddening. If they really want to help mitigate the heatwave it would make a lot more sense to tell people to cut down on driving. It would reduce emissions from the tailpipe but also reduce fossil fuel usage.

But because we have driving so engrained in our mindset we can't even imagine that kind of thing.

Gee whiz, it's almost as if substituting one energy source for another doesn't solve the problem of excessive energy use.

farley3k wrote:

But because we have driving so engrained in our mindset we can't even imagine that kind of thing.

Gee whiz, it's almost as if American infrastructure necessitates the use of a vehicle.

Gotta go back to the office 100%!!!!!

It really is a complicated topic. The request was to stop charging EVs after 4pm, because after 4, the Tesla Virtual Power Plant actually sends energy back to the grid.

Gotta go back to the office 100%!!!!!

At least around here, traffic is back to pre-pandemic levels. I just don't get it. Our infrastructure is stretched to the limit like this but it was honestly overbuilt for the pandemic. We could have encouraged employers to continue WFH or at least made employers who want everyone back in the office to shoulder some of the burden with higher taxes. Instead we get all this nonsense about how everyone needs to come back to support the downtown core.

It's not like we just spent a few years learning how to WFH... yet another opportunity for real change seems to be slipping away.

I agree.
Great city btw.
I was just there for the first time. It was a little warm/humid but I really liked what I experienced. The ferry trip to Bainbridge island was so peaceful

Minase wrote:

It's not like we just spent a few years learning how to WFH... yet another opportunity for real change seems to be slipping away.

And for no reason that I have heard articulated. No one has said productivity lagged, or that people were less stratified, etc.
They just decided to do it as though "Capitalism" was just a lumbering beast that must be obeyed without question.

My own opinion is that many of these companies signed leases that they can't break and which are a huge expense for them. They want to get something for the money. And what happens to the commercial real estate market if all that office space does not get renewed when those leases are up?

Massive mixed use conversion opportunities in a few years, folks! Alert your fund managers to shift strategies, and get ready to go cash-flush! Those inspectors won't bribe themselves!

I too suspect it’s the commercial real estate market that is behind the majority of this “back to work” malarkey the bosses are pushing.

I don’t know the answers to the following questions but: what does a thriving urban center look like without the huge buying power of thousands or tends of thousands of office workers and the service industry that supports them? What does a decentralized urban world look like, as we consider that cities are better for the environment, per capita, than suburban or even rural areas?

farley3k wrote:
Minase wrote:

It's not like we just spent a few years learning how to WFH... yet another opportunity for real change seems to be slipping away.

And for no reason that I have heard articulated. No one has said productivity lagged, or that people were less stratified, etc.
They just decided to do it as though "Capitalism" was just a lumbering beast that must be obeyed without question.

Yeah my company had our best financial year in the 4 years since we merged with another in 2021. So why would anyone go back to the office?

Except yeah sunk cost of office space.

Robear wrote:

My own opinion is that many of these companies signed leases that they can't break and which are a huge expense for them. They want to get something for the money. And what happens to the commercial real estate market if all that office space does not get renewed when those leases are up?

It's a tie between leases and a shocking number of managers and bosses who have a compulsive need to physically see their minions slaving away.

OG_slinger wrote:

It's a tie between leases and a shocking number of managers and bosses who have a compulsive need to physically see their minions slaving away.

Well they realized if they don't have minions to watch they actually have nothing to do. Work goes on, profit gets made, and they are not needed. So it could be a bit of self protection.

And what happens to the commercial real estate market if all that office space does not get renewed when those leases are up?

Cheap SF Bay Area rents?
Oh, who am I kidding?