Total War: Warhammer

Great. Would you say the same about holding off on Warhammer 1?

I’ve only played on WH2 campaign and it’s my second longest game playtime on Steam with 90ish hours.

At this point I would really only recommend Warhammer 1 if you want to play Immortal Empires. The newer games just have so many improvements that it would be really jarring to go back. Even at only six years old, Total War has advanced a lot in that time.

Also, TWH1 does not have any kind of story campaign in it. It is in the old vein of Total Wars where you just pick a faction, are dropped in the map, and told to pain the world your color. The only event that transpires is the Chaos Invasion that happens around turn 100 where Archaeon and his three goons spawn in the Chaos Wastes with their super stacks and start destroying everything. It's basically a simplified version of the Mortal/Immortal Empires campaign (being that is only encompasses the Old World).

This - with immortal empires you’ll get most of the WH 1 experience. The campaign is pretty rudimentary compared to the expansions, but get it so you can play immortal.

I actually only played WH1 a little and didn't get particularly into it. Likewise with the core WH2 campaign. But when WH2 implemented the Mortal Empires grand campaign mode, that was what drew me all the way in to where I bought all the DLC for both titles and fell in love.

And with WH3, I was disappointed at first because I misunderstood and didn't realize Immortal Empires wouldn't be available at launch. Not their fault, totally mine for not properly informing myself. So while I didn't regret the purchase -- because I have 100% confidence that Immortal Empires will make this the most amazing RTS I've ever played (given that WH2 already is arguably that) -- I haven't really put any time into it yet since the core WH3-specific campaign doesn't really interest me.

I would argue that if you have any interest in Total War: Warhammer, start with a purchase of WH1 & WH2, install WH2, and go nuts on the Mortal Empires mode. If that does it for you, then go ahead and snag WH3, switch over to that as your sole install, and go ham on Immortal Empires.

I'm actually trying to wrap up Guardians of the Galaxy so I can clear up enough drive space to install WH3, as I'm impatient to dive into the new grand campaign myself but am not ready to uninstall TW 3 Kingdoms yet as I'm quite enjoying that one.

Farscry wrote:

I would argue that if you have any interest in Total War: Warhammer, start with a purchase of WH1 & WH2, install WH2, and go nuts on the Mortal Empires mode. If that does it for you, then go ahead and snag WH3, switch over to that as your sole install, and go ham on Immortal Empires.

I'm just limping into a DE campaign in WH2 of Mortal Empires. Does your post mean you just need to install the latest iteration in the series and the game will then include all the previous material?

Natus wrote:
Farscry wrote:

I would argue that if you have any interest in Total War: Warhammer, start with a purchase of WH1 & WH2, install WH2, and go nuts on the Mortal Empires mode. If that does it for you, then go ahead and snag WH3, switch over to that as your sole install, and go ham on Immortal Empires.

I'm just limping into a DE campaign in WH2 of Mortal Empires. Does your post mean you just need to install the latest iteration in the series and the game will then include all the previous material?

Yes, so long as you own the prior core game(s) that's exactly how it works. All the DLC packs do is unlock the ability to play as those additional factions, if I recall correctly.

So if you own WH1 and WH2, you can play Mortal Empires in WH2 (with only WH2 installed) where it has the full combined content of WH1 & 2.

If you own all three games, you can play Immortal Empires in WH3 (with, likewise, only WH3 actually installed) where it has the combined content of all three.

IMPORTANT CAVEAT: the games must all be owned within the same store. So, all Steam or all Epic or whatever; last I heard, the games weren't reliably able to check the licenses across different shops.

Further clarification, if I am brand new to WH3 and I want to play its campaign then no need to purchase WH1 until I am ready to try and Immortal Empires campaign? I already own WH2 and a bunch of DLC.
WH1 is on sale for under $12 on Fanatical so I am tempted to buy in case I want to pivot from the WH3 campaign and play IE. Hmm...

chooka1 wrote:

Further clarification, if I am brand new to WH3 and I want to play its campaign then no need to purchase WH1 until I am ready to try and Immortal Empires campaign? I already own WH2 and a bunch of DLC.
WH1 is on sale for under $12 on Fanatical so I am tempted to buy in case I want to pivot from the WH3 campaign and play IE. Hmm...

Correct. The main WH3 campaign is great the first time around, though I found it lacked a bit of replay value. Or at least less replay than Immortal Empires. But on the flipside, they are still planning to add new features to IE so you could always wait for a holiday sale when it comes out of beta. So far I'm not running into too many bugs but it's still a little rough.

I'm playing a Festus Realm of Chaos campaign. Immortal Empires is very appealing, but I'm going to let it bake for a bit. Anyway, Festus is a lot of fun. It seems like it's going to be a fairly short campaign, which is fine by me as I rarely make it to the end of the big slogs.

Decided to go with Tretch Craventail for my first Immortal Empires run.

I've always been a skaven guy, and Tretch is the skaveniest there is, but he was in a bit of a nightmare spot in Mortal Empires, so I never really felt like I wanted to try him out. He feels like a good time character, not a desperate fight for your life sort of character, despite his reputation. He's in a great spot for IE, lots of potential "friends" nearby, next to new stuff to the north/east but still close enough to the old stuff to the south/west to have some of that nostalgia floating around.

A strange, perhaps unambitious first choice, but he's turning out to be a lot of fun!

This game is checking all of the boxes for me. I haven't been this giddy about a game since Wrath of the Lich King was the new hotness.

I love, love region trading. Instead of painting the map I can support buffer states (looking at you Border Princes). You get a huge boost to diplomacy *and* they will pay good money to get their cities back! Win, win.

RIP to my Volkmar campaign around turn 75. Corrupted by a mod that was certified to be compatible with IE but corrupted my saves anyway. Sigmar will have his vengeance!

Anecdotally the AI seems a bit too passive. Some starting points are easier than others but WH2 the meanies were are lot ... meaner.

Redwing wrote:

Decided to go with Tretch Craventail for my first Immortal Empires run.

I've always been a skaven guy, and Tretch is the skaveniest there is, but he was in a bit of a nightmare spot in Mortal Empires, so I never really felt like I wanted to try him out. He feels like a good time character, not a desperate fight for your life sort of character, despite his reputation. He's in a great spot for IE, lots of potential "friends" nearby, next to new stuff to the north/east but still close enough to the old stuff to the south/west to have some of that nostalgia floating around.

A strange, perhaps unambitious first choice, but he's turning out to be a lot of fun!

Love clan Rictis - that was my main in WH2. They don’t have a lot of special units but Craventail has some fun special moves like “wait I’ll go get help.” I had to turn down the difficulty so glad to hear they toned things down.

Still having fun with Clan Eshin in Cathay but also trying out the dark elves in the same area.

@Heretk - according to YouTube the endgame invasions make everything tougher. You can enable some or all of them to the point where a given faction unites and comes after you.

Yes, that is an awesome feature. Have not yet experienced it. The QoL improvements between WH2 and WH3 were great enough. But IE turned it up a notch or three

I've been enjoying a Dwarf campaign (~80 turns) in Immortal Empires but recently have run into a bad bug: the game will always crash on my next end-turn. It's always on the same AI faction's (an undiscovered one, naturally) move. I guess I need to sequentially reload earlier and earlier autosaves to see if I can somehow get around it.

If you want a real challenge try Festus's immortal empires start. It's nuts.

Math wrote:

I've been enjoying a Dwarf campaign (~80 turns) in Immortal Empires but recently have run into a bad bug: the game will always crash on my next end-turn. It's always on the same AI faction's (an undiscovered one, naturally) move. I guess I need to sequentially reload earlier and earlier autosaves to see if I can somehow get around it.

Have you tried verifying game data? Could be a bad file.

imbiginjapan wrote:
Math wrote:

I've been enjoying a Dwarf campaign (~80 turns) in Immortal Empires but recently have run into a bad bug: the game will always crash on my next end-turn. It's always on the same AI faction's (an undiscovered one, naturally) move. I guess I need to sequentially reload earlier and earlier autosaves to see if I can somehow get around it.

Have you tried verifying game data? Could be a bad file.

That's a good idea, but unfortunately didn't help. Apparently quite a few people are having the same sort of issue, with almost every faction and at random turns. https://steamcommunity.com/app/11427...

They just dropped the 2.1 patch yesterday, did it start happening before or after that? It could be the patch messed something up and you're stuck starting over...

They just dropped a hotfix. Hopefully that fixed your issue!

Can anyone recommend a good site for performance tweaks? I'm running Immortal Empires on my aging laptop and find that it's creaking, especially in siege battles. I'm running a i7-7820HK with a GTX1080. I had no problem running TW:WH2 at 1920 x 1080 last year.

While everyone is playing their fancy Immortal Empires, I'm still plugging away trying to "finish" Warhammer 2. I just completed my first major task- winning the game with each of the six major factions. So, that's 15 factions total, counting Warhammer 1.

Now I will post some random, long, unsolicited thoughts and recollections of each campaign. Usually, I play a couple of games, take a break for several weeks/months, then come back to it, so some of these were from a good while ago.

High Elves:

Spoiler:

I guess they're the good guys in Warhammer 2, insofar as anyone is good in this universe. I find the faction boring and snobbish though.

I did enjoy gradually taking control of Warhammer's version of Atlantis AKA The Doughnut. This involved more confederation than conflict, which seemed fitting. There was definitely some conflict though. I found the High Elves to be fairly easy to win battles with, outperforming both the auto-resolve and my previous performances in Warhammer 1. I was especially fond of units like the Lothern Sea Guards that could serve both as competent front-line troops and missile units- very versatile. Loved watching those endless swarms of arrows fall on enemies from multiple sides.

Once I had unified our island, I launched my expeditionary force against the Dark Elves, capturing Albion, swinging west to take the northern wastes, then finally arriving at Warhammer Canada (which I guess could also be considered northern wastes). I was able to fully conquer Naggarond before completing the Vortex victory.

Lizardmen:

Spoiler:

My memories of this campaign are hazier. I started in Warhammer Mexico and eventually conquered all of South America. No, I don't know what these areas' real names are. Lustria, Ulthuan... that's it. That's all I got.

I probably bribed the various elves, skaven and vampires north of me to leave me alone. Too cold up there. Warhammer USA looked pretty damn barren.

One thing I do remember is there was this small nation of filthy Imperial colonizers completely surrounded by my lands. They were pressed right up against my capital area. I was always planning on wiping them out, but never got around to it. They just sat there and never gave me any trouble. By the end of the game they had been my longest and most steadfast trading partner. I like to think some level of affection had actually developed in the lizardmen's cold-blooded hearts for these guys.

I do vaguely remember finishing a quest to gain control of some overpowered Slann hero unit- that was fun.

Combat continued to be pretty easy.

These guys definitely have my favorite-looking units in the game. Yes, it's because I've always loved dinosaurs. I mean, what's cooler? A dragon? Nah. Or a massive crocodilian with a weapon platform on its back? Hell yeah!

I also liked the lush, jungle environs of the campaign map down here, with the Aztec-inspired ruins, and scattered prehistoric animals like a pterosaur circling a mountain peak. Gave me vibes of those pulp fiction books- Edgar Rice Burroughs, The Lost World, Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc.

Dark Elves:

Spoiler:

After cruising to easy wins with the High Elves and Lizardmen, this is where things started getting more challenging for me. In combat, when the auto-resolve predicted a close victory, I'd usually score a decisive victory. Close defeat, a pyrrhic or close victory. Not so with the Dark Elves. With them, I was more on par with the auto-resolve... sometimes even worse.

I honestly don't remember clearly why I had such trouble with them. They couldn't go toe to toe with the high elves when it came to ranged firepower. The obvious counter is cavalry, but I don't think they had great cavalry either. Strong line units that could advance and soak up damage? Not really. I vaguely recall I had a bunch of missile/infantry hybrid units that seemed more designed for skirmishing and flanking. I never mastered them.

My strategy was also flawed. There were a bunch of chaos-spreading Norscans north of my lands and I really didn't trust them to stay there while my armies were overseas. So I wasted an eternity taking them out, even tying up my main army with a lengthy march to the Warhammer version of British Columbia (Alaska?) to eliminate their last holdout. None of these tiny villages were particularly productive for my growing empire though and I started falling behind the curve.

Once I had finally formed a strong Dark Elf homeland, I planned to conquer Ulthuan, in a reverse of my High Elf game. I was unable to establish a strong permanent foothold there though, with High Elf armies popping up left and right. I had to settle for circling around their island, trashing their cities and some isolated armies while fleeing from large groupings. I used a supporting Black Ark to constantly provide fresh units to my rampaging army. Eventually I formed a permanent settlement in this volcanic region in the SW of Ulthuan. It looked like a more suitable climate for a Dark Elf than forests and plains. I never expanded beyond that one province though and just defended it until the Vortex victory.

Tomb Kings:

Spoiler:

I really like the look and theme of this faction. I could just envision hordes of skeletons digging through sandy ruins looking for artifacts from ancient dynasties. The graphics and writing really sold this. Very evocative.

Their units certainly looked cool, but I don't really remember much about how they fought. Pretty sure I took over the giant desert in Warhammer North Africa relatively easily then turtled for the rest of the game until I had some very overpowered armies to move out and quickly grab the Books of Nagash, triggering the victory condition. I probably used auto-resolve a lot. This was my quickest victory in number of turns.

Skaven:

Spoiler:

Another harder campaign for me. I know I save-scummed and restarted multiple times because I felt like I wasn't getting anywhere fast.

We began close to the southern tip of Warhammer Africa. The nearby starting opponents were a bunch of High Elves and, like all initial opponents, they seemed designed to be easily defeated. The only problem was their home was on an inhospitable (for skavens) island a good way from the continent. Sending a large force to subdue it left me vulnerable to attack from the lizardmen to the north. But focusing on the lizardmen left me vulnerable to seaborne attacks from the High Elves.

Eventually, during one of my games, the High Elf problem was solved by Dark Elves fortuitously attacking the island and wiping them out. These Dark Elves came from some islands to the SE and they didn't hate me. Everyone else seemed to instantly declare war on me, even some factions from half the world away that I have no idea how they even heard of us. With some small bribes they became my trading partner and the only guys I could count on not to invade until I eventually met up with the Tomb Kings and other skaven way later in the game.

The lizardmen were my main adversary throughout this campaign and Kroq-gar and Queek Headtaker's armies clashed multiple times. For a while, he would have the upper hand in these battles and I was constantly on the defensive. Unlike with the Dark Elves, I'll blame this on my soldiers and not my leadership (seems appropriate for a skaven). I don't think a basic skaven unit is a match for lizardmen one on one. I would still do enough damage that he couldn't exploit his advantage. After each clash we'd both regroup a bit then fight again. Queek became quite the badass.

Well, eventually I did get the upper hand over Kroq-gar and the main reason is that I figured out how good skaven weapon teams are. The ratling gun is now my favorite unit in the game. It's just so satisfying. Especially when the enemy advances into withering fire and is just about to reach your gunners, but you narrowly intercept their flank with an infantry unit, fixing them in location to be slaughtered.

Even after I captured some of Kroq-gar's territory, further expansion was greatly hindered by food limitations. This persisted until I was finally able to research technology to increase food yield and figured out to use heroes to spread the Under-empire which I filled with food-generating buildings. Pretty sure I could have also solved this problem by constantly raiding, but I admit, this is a mechanic I probably underutilize.

Ultimately, the Tomb Kings wound up owning the entire northern half of the continent and I owned the southern half. I contemplated fighting them, but they were pretty strong. Also, one of the few races that didn't instantly declare war on me, so it didn't seem right. I basically turtled for the rest of the game, only crossing the ocean to take out this one tiny skaven faction that wouldn't agree to a non-aggression pact and trade deal with me even with bribery. They may have also happened to be sitting on a warpstone deposit I needed since I was falling behind on victory points. This was enough to eek ahead of the other 3 factions for the Vortex victory.

Vampire Coast:

Spoiler:

I started in the NE of Lustria and fairly quickly wound up with a couple of provinces. Some nice coastal cities and jungle and the loading artwork evoked thoughts of the golden age of Caribbean piracy. My territory steadily became grey with vampiric corruption. The units were great too. Everything looked exactly like it should.

They have a rite that covers their lands in a supernatural fog that causes extra attrition. Maybe Vampire Counts had the same thing? Don't remember. I could just imagine civilians from a nearby nation pointing in the general direction, saying "That's the Vampire Coast. We stay away from it." The appearance was quite foreboding. Nations declared war on us but for the most part left us alone from the sea. I did form trade partnerships with various skaven clans. I guess they are kind of in the same boat, so to speak- hated by everyone else.

Seemed like my settlements were well protected once I had my defensive buildings, and the attrition was another factor that made me feel pretty safe without having armies loiter about at home. Also, I could fit all the buildings I wanted to build every unit type in a single province. And then there's the shipbuilding aspect that lets you have mobile army recruiting as well. This all lended to gameplay where you have a small empire and send your armies out to raid and pillage- very appropriate for the faction.

The victory condition is quite different. Basically, you have a leaderboard for pirate infamy you need to progress up. Razing cities seemed to be the fasted way to achieve this so that's what I did.

The lizardmen did mount a couple of invasions from the interior of the continent. One of them was a tough, 3 stack army that managed to trash one of my cities. I learned a long time ago how essential lightning strike is, so I was able to pick them off one by one even though they massed together. Without it, things would have been dire.

The final battle was pretty fun.

I actually gave up on Immortal Empires for the time being. I'm not good enough to hack it on Hard difficulty or higher, and Normal difficulty has some major bugs regarding the AI's tendency to rapidly and mercilessly dogpile the player with wars.

I decided to give the core WH3 Chaos campaign a shot, and have been finding it a lot more engaging and enjoyable than I expected (and Normal difficulty bug(s) from Immortal Empires are not present in this campaign mode, which gives me hope they'll sort out what's going on with IE). Been playing as Cathay which is new for me too, and while the yin/yang mechanic is giving me some fits because I want to play balanced, I'm otherwise digging it. Great basic army units and I quite enjoy the trade caravan mechanics so far!

gewy wrote:

While everyone is playing their fancy Immortal Empires, I'm still plugging away trying to "finish" Warhammer 2. I just completed my first major task- winning the game with each of the six major factions. So, that's 15 factions total, counting Warhammer 1.

Now I will post some random, long, unsolicited thoughts and recollections of each campaign. Usually, I play a couple of games, take a break for several weeks/months, then come back to it, so some of these were from a good while ago.

Nice! Now you just need to do the Vortex campaigns for Dwarves, Greenskins, Empire, and Bretonnia! (Is there one I'm missing?)

I'm actually considering returning to TWWH2 Vortex campaign myself, since IE needs some polish and the Realms of Chaos is a bit of a chore.

Farscry wrote:

Been playing as Cathay which is new for me too, and while the yin/yang mechanic is giving me some fits because I want to play balanced, I'm otherwise digging it. Great basic army units and I quite enjoy the trade caravan mechanics so far!

Isn't balanced the best way to play the yin/yang system? I was always careful to maintain exact parity in every way: in armies, in heroes, buildings, tech, etc. The AI feels no need to do so, apparently, because whenever I confederated my balance would be destroyed for several turns...

Has the turn time for ai been improved? I remember trying immortal empire early on and the amount time waiting for the ai to finish it's turns was brutal.

Got the game free on twitch but if it's still that bad I'm probably going to pass.

Math wrote:

Nice! Now you just need to do the Vortex campaigns for Dwarves, Greenskins, Empire, and Bretonnia! (Is there one I'm missing?)

Yeah, so I have two more goals to accomplish before I consider the game finished. First, I need to play a game or two of Mortal Empires. Pretty simple.

The other task is a bit more daunting. By my count there are 39 faction leaders for the Vortex campaign. I've played through with 6 of them. Obviously, I'm not going to do every one, but I would like to play through all the ones that have a unique mechanics. I'm going to have to give some thought to what this entails.

My guess is that if there's a different victory condition, they're in, so that would mean one campaign as dwarfs, greenskins, Empire, Bretonnia, beastmen and wood elves for sure. I'm thinking if the faction has a unique menu screen, like Eltharion's prison or Grom's cooking, they're also in. Luckily, I think there's gonna be a lot of overlap among these and they're probably mostly DLC factions. I might get really obsessive about it and make a spreadsheet or something.

If the faction just has a different mix of units and bonuses, I'm not going to fool with them.

Ugh, this is going to take a while. I already have 249 hours played according to Steam (although I did tend to let it sit there at times). I guess by the time I get around to Warhammer 3, they may be done releasing its DLC and I can get everything on discount.

Quick gauge of interest - would some of you be interested in doing a multiplayer battle during the international Goodjer day? I've heard you can play on one of the wave survival maps with up to 4 players.

Started my first (IE) Karl Franz campaign this week. Oh boy is it a different experience in IE. By turn 30 most of Bretonnia had been ravaged by the triple threat of Mousillon, Grom and Belakor. Nurgle boy in the Brass Keep had decimated the northern provinces and to the east the VC had pushed west into Wissenland. Already!

Didn't know where to begin. Every front looked bad on its own, let alone all three. Left a half stack in Reikland and Karl F had to adopt a "hold my beer" strategy and I charged down into Bretonnia and now have Grom down to two settlements. Being able to give or sell back captured settlements is the only way I have made it to this point. But victory is far from certain.

late to the party for sure but I picked up a bunch of this including 2 and 3 so I could play Immortal Empires with my brother. We're going to be playing coop comp-stomps for a bit. Are there any in game communication options? Not voice but pinging or drawing on maps in strategic or battle views?

polypusher wrote:

late to the party for sure but I picked up a bunch of this including 2 and 3 so I could play Immortal Empires with my brother. We're going to be playing coop comp-stomps for a bit. Are there any in game communication options? Not voice but pinging or drawing on maps in strategic or battle views?

Yes, you can draw on the map (strategic and battle) in a couple colors. Nothing very fancy, but it gets the job done.

Yes, in the top left there is both a "telestration" option, and a ping option. Ping drops a glowing arrow on the map and the telestration has three options, blue "indicator", green "defensive line" (has bars on the end of the line, and red "attack line" (has an arrow on the end of the line).