The GWJ JRPG Club / CRPG Club / Strategy Gaming Group Cross-Play Extravaganza - Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark (Q3 2022)

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For our third game this year, we'll be playing Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark! Unlike most of our games, this one wasn't made in Japan: it's an indie game, made by a small studio (appears to be two people, maybe a husband-and-wife team, though they also credit some contractors in making this game) based in the U.S.A. (Orlando, FL.) But, it's also clearly a love letter to Final Fantasy Tactics. Above, you can see a very Tactics-esque wheel of classes to be unlocked. Below, you can see that this is a meaty JRPG with plenty to do:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/CHtGZHe.png)

A few housekeeping matters:
First, there was an earlier, relatively short thread from back in 2019 covering this game. Linked here in case you want to read it for some gameplay tips.

Second, here's the link to the JRPG Club's main thread.

Third, we will be joined by the CRPG Club and the Strategy Gaming Group. Both have voted Fell Seal in for their third-quarter game. To maximize participation and encourage the most discussion, all are welcome to discuss the game here. Anyone who finishes the game will level up with the JRPG Club, regardless of which club you "normally" play with, and I assume the same will be true of the others.

Time to fight some tactical battles, mix-and-match some class skills, and create some tiny juggernauts. Happy gaming, everyone!

Man… A cross-club game might be too much for me to resist. This is on my wishlist, but I managed to withstand purchasing it recently. (Backlog and all that…)

The Switch version is on sale for ten bucks, if that sways you at all.

If this ends up being the pick for either or both of the other clubs, it would be a historical first, wouldn't it?

In any case, in for a penny, in for a pound! Have already started and am looking forward to playing a bit more later on today.

I'm in and looking forward to playing through with the group. I've had it downloaded and ready to go for a while now, so here's the perfect excuse to start

brokenclavicle wrote:

If this ends up being the pick for either or both of the other clubs, it would be a historical first, wouldn't it?

In any case, in for a penny, in for a pound! Have already started and am looking forward to playing a bit more later on today.

It certainly would! I think there might have been some overlap in games nominated for the JRPG and CRPG clubs in the past, though that's just a gut feeling and I'd have to go back to the records to actually look. But I've never seen any overlap between the Strategy Game Group and ours.

Hooray. Probably will rejoin my game in progress instead of starting new. But I believe I had only finished the first temple that the story points you to and was on my way to another objective. Was only 6 months ago but I've forgotten a bit.

I'm in, although I need to finish my run of Triangle Strategy before I hop on. I have Fell Seal on the Switch, so that's where I'll be playing it.

LastSurprise wrote:
brokenclavicle wrote:

If this ends up being the pick for either or both of the other clubs, it would be a historical first, wouldn't it?

In any case, in for a penny, in for a pound! Have already started and am looking forward to playing a bit more later on today.

It certainly would! I think there might have been some overlap in games nominated for the JRPG and CRPG clubs in the past, though that's just a gut feeling and I'd have to go back to the records to actually look. But I've never seen any overlap between the Strategy Game Group and ours.

In the time I've been playing with the clubs, the only time before Fell Seal that a game got traction with two clubs at the same time was Dragon's Dogma with JRPG and CRPG, and people started talking about a crossover then. It didn't win either club, and I don't think it came up again since.

Already commented in the main club thread, but posting in here to commit to this one. The first two quarters' games were replays for me but this is a new one that's been in my backlog for a while, so let's do this!

I've been chiseling away at the early game on the Steam Deck for a few days (it's a great Deck game IMO) so this is perfect timing!

I have played this in the past but have not managed to finish it so it looks like this might be my first foray into the "club"!

I booted up the Switch version this morning for work and got through the first battle.

You can definitely tell that it is a PC port. I'm sure the UI is perfectly readable on a 27-inch 4k PC monitor. On the Switch screen? Jesus Christ where's the option to increase the font size?

One of the reasons I voted for this is because I just rolled credits on Final Fantasy Tactics for the first time a couple weeks ago and have been itching for an updated take on that game.

At first glance, it's a mixed bag there. The art style is kind of all over the place, not nearly as charming as Tactics. On the other hand, it's a very small quality of life thing, but God it feels nice to be able to move a unit, realize it's not quite in range of what I wanted it to do, cancel the move, and move it someplace else instead. In tactics once you moved a unit you were committed so you had better be God damn sure that that's where you want it to be.

hbi2k wrote:

I booted up the Switch version this morning for work and got through the first battle.

You can definitely tell that it is a PC port. I'm sure the UI is perfectly readable on a 27-inch 4k PC monitor. On the Switch screen? Jesus Christ where's the option to increase the font size?

One of the reasons I voted for this is because I just rolled credits on Final Fantasy Tactics for the first time a couple weeks ago and have been itching for an updated take on that game.

At first glance, it's a mixed bag there. The art style is kind of all over the place, not nearly as charming as Tactics. On the other hand, it's a very small quality of life thing, but God it feels nice to be able to move a unit, realize it's not quite in range of what I wanted it to do, cancel the move, and move it someplace else instead. In tactics once you moved a unit you were committed so you had better be God damn sure that that's where you want it to be.

I'm playing on PS4, so I can imagine how difficult and taxing it would be to play on a hand-held, even one with a larger screen like the Switch.

The art style has grown on me after a while. It's not top of the line, but it's an earnest effort, and there are a lot of different little things that pleasantly remind me of FFT. The system in general does feel like a natural upgrade.

Finished the game a few days ago. Curios to hear others impressions.

hbi2k wrote:

You can definitely tell that it is a PC port.

At first I thought it was a console port to PC. Mouse, keyboard controls and UI felt a bit off to me.

I fired it up (Switch) and immediately was struck by the decision to have d-pad only, no-left-analogue stick as the default. Who does that? Maybe on a PS4 I'd control the same solely with the d-pad, but I can't imagine using those things on the JoyCons as my only source of directional input.

The font size doesn't bother me for some reason. I struggle with too-small fonts on my PS sometimes, but apparently my eyesight's great up close.

I do think the art style looks much better in motion than in the still images I saw on Steam or in the Switch store. It's a bit storybook but it works. I like the character portraits, definitely feel like I get some good expressions and personality from Kyrie, Reiner, and ... the other one. I'll learn her name, I promise!

Arkon wrote:

I have played this in the past but have not managed to finish it so it looks like this might be my first foray into the "club"!

And, welcome! Glad to have you join, and I hope you enjoy playing the game with us!

LastSurprise wrote:

. I like the character portraits, definitely feel like I get some good expressions and personality from Kyrie, Reiner, and ... the other one. I'll learn her name, I promise!

Anadine! She's pretty great.

I think I played this with PS4 controller on PC. Don't remember using mouse. Used to SRPGs being on console.

I grabbed this on PC with the expansion for $10 but debating maybe refunding it and getting the Switch version instead, but the game without expansion is $10 there. How does the Switch version look on a TV? I'll mostly play docked, but having the ability to take it on the go could be an upside.

Does anyone have opinions on the DLC?

Malkroth wrote:

Does anyone have opinions on the DLC?

Looks like it's capturing and using monster units. Sounds similar to Disgaea. In those games they were usually terrible units because they couldn't change classes and get multiple skills like human units could. I would assume the same here unless there are some really great monster skills.

There are 3 new human classes in the DLC. But I'm not sure if there good, bad, or what.

The extra mini game sounds like you send party members you're not using on side missions or something. Might be fun but I don't know if the resources they gather help you on the main campaign or not?

So I'm not very tempted to get it. But I could be wrong.

I kickstarter this a while ago. I will join in.

I'm a couple battles in now, and am I crazy, or is there no way to rotate the camera?

That's... that's a big oof if so. I'm constantly hitting the shoulder buttons reflexively trying to get a better look at what's going on.

Sometimes you can’t even target enemies with a mouse because the environment blocks the enemies. Not smart. It works to cycle through the enemies at least.

I'm a few battles in now, too. Definitely enjoying this. It immediately invites comparisons to Final Fantasy Tactics, which I always wanted to play but bounced off pretty hard each time I tried. So far I like this job class system, and this system of buying promotions, much better than FFT -- and I see that Fell Seal eliminates FFT's temptation to save up for the one class ability that renders others obsolete. The menus also feel easier to navigate. Every time I played FFT, it felt like each decision I wanted to make involved 1 or 2 too many layers of menu.

I also really like the "vicarious learning" mechanic to give each character a little bit of job XP. Over time I can see that being really useful in helping to unlock classes, and also in avoiding the feeling that I'm totally starting from scratch when I class change.

As it seems the game gives a small job XP bonus if Kyrie survives the fight, I've decided to make her tanky. I switched her to a Knight right after earning the Mercenary's counter ability. Some of the fights have been tough, and I've lost members (temporarily) to injuries, but not Kyrie, yet.

Stele wrote:
Malkroth wrote:

Does anyone have opinions on the DLC?

Looks like it's capturing and using monster units. Sounds similar to Disgaea. In those games they were usually terrible units because they couldn't change classes and get multiple skills like human units could. I would assume the same here unless there are some really great monster skills.

There are 3 new human classes in the DLC. But I'm not sure if there good, bad, or what.

The extra mini game sounds like you send party members you're not using on side missions or something. Might be fun but I don't know if the resources they gather help you on the main campaign or not?

So I'm not very tempted to get it. But I could be wrong.

I think the extra minigame is part of the base game, and unlocks when you get to the third town. I believe the DLC added more options for side missions.

If you're wondering "what do I do with influence points?" They're to spend in the mini-game. In each of the game's regions, you get a little base represented by a 9x9 grid, and can spend IP to build buildings on that grid. Each building will have an effect on these side missions, or on your combat within actual battles (like giving you a stat boost or something), and they also have adjacency bonuses with each other.

I kept the PC version and dove in a little bit last night. Completed the first two story missions then did a Patrol on that first green node to see what they are like. I am enjoying it so far and definitely like the skill tree learning better than FFT's free-form pick whatever method. FFT's method showed its biggest issues with the archer and dragoon classes, but not bee-lining for the "OP" skills is a nice "Don't worry about optimization" nod.

The combat seems pretty lethal at this point. In the second story mission the knight I recruited got knocked out pretty quick. She was taking more damage than any of my other characters even though she's supposed to be the "tanky" class. Must be a gear issue or something at this point. You definitely need to be careful if you want to avoid characters getting injuries. It would be nice if they gave you like a turn or something to revive them and avoid injury, but I guess the whole point is to encourage having backups.

I recruiting two characters at the guild, a wizard and a knight. After spending way too long customizing them and picking a portrait, I learned you can upload your own portraits, so I spent a half hour or so finding a couple cool pictures and loading them into the game. So now my new recruits have custom portraits, neat!

The difficulty selection looks really cool. I ended up going with "veteran" but changed the RNG stuff to be weighted in my favor because I hate RNG in tactical games. What did other people end up going with?

Malkroth wrote:

I recruiting two characters at the guild, a wizard and a knight. After spending way too long customizing them and picking a portrait, I learned you can upload your own portraits, so I spent a half hour or so finding a couple cool pictures and loading them into the game. So now my new recruits have custom portraits, neat!

The difficulty selection looks really cool. I ended up going with "veteran" but changed the RNG stuff to be weighted in my favor because I hate RNG in tactical games. What did other people end up going with?

Whoa I played nearly 20 hours of this and didn't know about the portraits. That's awesome.

I did something similar with difficulty but I'd have to turn on the PC at lunch and check to be sure. I don't think I specified in my old post on the main game thread.

Once you start unlocking classes there's some good combos of skills listed in that thread that other people have tried that might be worth reading.

And there was also some more in depth discussion of that vicarious AP and how it works. If I remember you have to have one person with the class set participating in the battle and then everyone else will get a few points into the class, even if they haven't unlocked it yet. I think that's right because when I did unlock a class on another character later I was able to buy the 1st skill immediately. And another time I wondered why I got no AP for merc or something and realized I had switched everyone out of that for other classes.

That sounds right but someone correct me if needed.

Yep from the wiki:

In addition to gaining AP in their main class, units gain a small amount of AP based on which other classes were deployed in battle. Specifically, a unit will gain 15% of an encounters base AP in each class deployed by the player. For example, in a standard patrol worth 140 AP, if 2 Menders, a Wizard, a Mercenary, and a Knight were deployed by the player, every single unit deployed in the battle will gain an addition 21 AP in Wizard, Mercenary, and Knight, and will gain 42 AP in Mender. Units will even gain vicarious AP in classes that they don't qualify for, although they won't be able to spend this AP until they meet the class's requirements.

There's also a bunch more math there if anyone is so inclined. And an explanation on how new recruit AP is calculated. I remember them having some by default but wondered about that.

So I am nearly up to the third(?) town and I think my characters are mostly around level 13ish. I am just now starting to see some nuance in the character development system. The class you are has an impact on your stat growth as you level up from experience points, which is independent of the AP you gain from what I can tell. So unlocking skills in a given class by spending AP doesn't impact your stat growth aside from the little boost you get from mastering a class. It looks like you can get pretty deep into strategy for optimizing stat growth in that case.

Great example I found is that when recruiting a character you can change what level you recruit them as. If you recruit a character as a scoundrel for example they will have the highest base speed of any of the lower level classes.

As for difficulty I am playing on veteran with all the default settings that come along with that. So far the battles have been challenging, have had quite a few injuries thus the need to recruit quite a few characters. Combat at least at low level certainly is deadly and a character can quickly be dropped if they get isolated.

Made my way through a few more battles before work today. Starting to get on the game's wavelength. One of the problems I tend to have with strategy RPGs is punishing difficulty, especially in the early game, so I'm unapologetically playing on Beginner.

I'm loving the Injury system. One of my complaints in my recent playthrough of Final Fantasy Tactics was that there was never any incentive to vary up my active party; my roster was perpetually divided into "The Chosen Five," "dudes who are 10-20 levels behind and will never catch up now because their slot has been taken," and "Level 1 filler that I've never used."

The injury system gives me a reason to bring my B-team off the bench occasionally, and it's fun sometimes going into a battle that's a little more challenging because I'm using my second-stringers. Gives me a very X-Com type feeling, which is one of the very few tactical RPGs that I've not only stuck with, but gone back to again and again.

And it helps me feel freer to experiment with the job system instead of looking up the One True Golden Build(tm) in a walkthrough somewhere and adhering to it as closely as possible. Because if I totally screw up a character's build, then oh well, that guy goes on the bench and maybe I'll use him when one of my A-Team is injured.

Also there is a bug man named Bizarro, and he was my friend for a little bit, and then he went away, and you don't get to tease me like that, game. Bring back Bizarro, he needs to be my best friend forever. f*ck all these humans you've given me to play with, I want to play with bugs!

I finally jumped back in last night. Played one patrol to get the dust off and still lost Reiner to injury. Anadine was already injured from the previous match months ago. After that I took stock of my roster, noticed I had reaver class unlocked but no one set as that so figured I'd create one. Looks like I'm sitting on a big bunch of cash anyway.

So then played another easier patrol, and still lost a character. This time it was the 4th story character that joins you permanently. Spoilers for I forget which mission hehe. So he's out for one.

Most of my party is in 18-21 range with one lagging at 15. And I had made a werewolf at 11. Not sure when or why I did that. Don't know if I made him back when the party was sub 15 and didn't keep up or if I thought I wanted to level him more to get class AP but whatever he appears useless down there.

Maybe I should have started over but my save file claims something like 28 hours so that's too much to waste. I'm sure a lot of that is idling or paused time though. With 2 kids I often had to walk away from this one mid mission. Even last night I let it idle over an hour at kids bedtime. I'll try to figure out what story mission I'm on tonight and make sense of the story.

There was an ! icon on an old mission or shop spot on the map so I clicked on that for an event. That event seemed to upgrade Anadine's armor for free so that was nice.

Hope this made sense. Really got to figure out what I was doing last time I played heh.

Ah looks like I'm in Ch3 and right on recommended levels. Hopefully I can handle the next story mission as I get the rust off hehe.

Played 1 more yesterday. I'm now saved right before going into that first temple, a mission or two after getting Kyrie's story-specific class.

I switched Kyrie into that class right away, and found that it's pretty helpful -- but quite different from how I've been building her so far. It seems to be focus on physical and magical attack growth, at the cost of defense. It also seems to have some FF-style Dark Knight moves, in terms of sacrificing HP and damage that grows at its HP decreases. But as Kyrie will be in every battle, I want her to live, and probably to focus on buffing allies or debuffing enemies.

I noticed, though, that her special class has a reaction where it imposes slow on any enemy that attacks her. That seems very useful, especially given how good the enemy AI is at healing and coordinating attacks. I bought it, and then switched her back to Knight. I'll send her into the fray, tanking and slowing, we'll see how that goes.

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