Horizon: Forbidden West - Disassemble all

I've run into a number of minor bugs, much of them quest-order related. Just last night I ran across a corpse that's clearly part of a quest, and Aloy was investigating the area and naming characters that I haven't encountered yet. I've also completed one quest, The Ancient Ruins I believe, where the interface stubbornly insists it's unfinished; even though I successfully scavenged everything required and also finished the quest that it's a subquest of, it won't move into the Completed Quests section.

Also, I ran across a Tenakth warrior who seems remarkably functional given the fact that he has no torso. Maybe he's related to Rayman?

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mwdowns wrote:

Interesting bit about the "the Apex Rockbreaker Mining Claws appear to be broken and just disappear even if you removed them fair and square", LarryC. I wonder if this more widespread too cause I was fighting a Thunderjaw yesterday and I'm sure I blasted off it's tail, but it wasn't on the field when I finished and started to collect.

I suspect it's more widespread because sometimes I can't find Storm Cannons I've removed. I can't confirm the issue with other machines and instances because the areas can be complex so maybe I just lost it in the wild. But Rockbreaker areas are devoid of features so it's pretty clear cut that an issue is happening when I blast off 4 Mining Claws with Tearblast Arrows and Tear-modified arrows and they just disappear.

How far along am I?

Spoiler:

Gaia wants to start the quest to capture Hephaestus with Beta and pals.

some other zach wrote:

How far along am I?

Spoiler:

Gaia wants to start the quest to capture Hephaestus with Beta and pals.

I wanna say about 80% through of the main story. That’s about the point where I’d advise going back and doing as many of the side quests as you like. The story picks up some after that mission, so it’ll feel weird to go off and do other things.

LarryC wrote:

Endgame Insight:

The Rebel Camps and Outposts concept here reimagines the human outpost idea.

The Outposts are just that - small strong locations where Rebels can annoy you when you’re traveling from place to place. You get rid of them to remove this barrier and sometimes you get a Workbench or a Campfire for your troubles.

The Camps are an entire emergent side quest line of their own and that side quest line leads to a pretty juicy payoff so you might want to pursue that sooner rather than later. Camps can be found by exploring the wilds or listening to rumors at various settlements.

My second camp seems bugged because I can't complete one of the objectives.

Spoiler:

Destroy the weapon and armor caches.

There's a few reddit posts with the same bug, so hopefully it will get patched. I did get the focus info from it, and some of the reddit comments seem to suggest that it is still possible to finishing the overall quest line and get the achievement. So we'll see.

peanut3141 wrote:

Most frustrating enemy is easily the shellsnapper. Those things are literal tanks. I had to fight them a lot of times to upgrade some of the best gear. Being forced to shoot off the bolts ended up being a *big* hint on how to best handle them.

I've found them more difficult than their level hint suggests as well. The best strategy I've found thus far is lob a couple of corrosion bombs on them, then use shredders on their top armor while it is corroding. Once you knock a piece or two of it off, you expose the nice juicy vulnerable bits.

If you've got ammo to spare, of course you can also pummel them with regular bombs and explosive javelins, which is my lazy strategy for... well... almost everything that gets too annoying. But getting them into the corroding state first is key. Otherwise they seem to shrug off any damage.

I look forward to the Future Press guide, to read more about the math behind the scenes.

LarryC wrote:
some other zach wrote:

How far along am I?

Spoiler:

Gaia wants to start the quest to capture Hephaestus with Beta and pals.

I wanna say about 80% through of the main story. That’s about the point where I’d advise going back and doing as many of the side quests as you like. The story picks up some after that mission, so it’ll feel weird to go off and do other things.

I had a feeling that was where I’m at. Thanks - gonna do some side quests and gear upgrades.

some other zach wrote:
LarryC wrote:
some other zach wrote:

How far along am I?

Spoiler:

Gaia wants to start the quest to capture Hephaestus with Beta and pals.

I wanna say about 80% through of the main story. That’s about the point where I’d advise going back and doing as many of the side quests as you like. The story picks up some after that mission, so it’ll feel weird to go off and do other things.

I had a feeling that was where I’m at. Thanks - gonna do some side quests and gear upgrades.

I'd also dedicate a hard save before you choose to undertake that mission.

Read spoilers. Felt like I stumbled into an Assassins Creed thread.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

Read spoilers. Felt like I stumbled into an Assassins Creed thread.

Haha! It's not as incoherent as all that. But I see the resemblance.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

Read spoilers. Felt like I stumbled into an Assassins Creed thread.

It's very high concept scifi. But it always was. It's much more tightly knit in Forbidden West so you get a lot more of that batsh*t crazy stuff front and center.

It does feel like it's more plausible. It's also less opaque. Even early in the story, if you try to figure out motivations and parse dialogue closely, the clues are in them.

Endgame insight:

Evidently both the last shot of a 4-throw Shedder Gauntlet as well as the explosive shot of a Power Shredder Weapon Technique do not necessarily destroy components! I tested this for about an hour on Plowhorns and Bristlebacks as well as once on a Slitherfang. Power Shredder straight to the snout takes off both Tusks and both Horns. I turned off the Easy Loot setting to test this out. Yeah. You get the stuff. Or at least, you’re supposed to. This isn’t cheap. Each set of Shredder Discs is 3 or 4 Machine Muscle and if you make a habit of chowing down on Shredder Ammo to use Power Shredder, it can get pricey on Machine Muscle very fast.

How it feels to be a Playstation user rn

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I'm at about 75 hours (maybe a little more than that last I checked), and I have probably 25% of the story left, and I just surpassed level 50. I appreciate how much there is to do. I will more than likely finish up the main quest this weekend but have most of the side quests/errands/etc. polished off before then. Exploring this map and the game has been a blast I don't want it to end.

More than how much there is to do, I appreciate the quality of the content.

I love the Outposts because they only require that you kill and loot the Bandit Leader. That's it. Open-ended quest goal. However you manage to do it, the game is okay with it. So you can just snipe off a Leader, loot his body stealthily, and be on your merry way. When you return, bandits are gone.

I love how each of the Bandit Camps has a specific relevance to the overall plot of what they're doing, and their placement on the map relates to what that specific camp is all about.

I love the episodic pacing and the quality of animation on almost all the sidequests. Literally, most of them are combat or fetch quests, but the setting in which they're located (looting a shipwreck?! Yeah. That's cool.) and the context of what you're doing (hunting specific machines to secure parts for new prototype weapons!) matters a lot.

Per usual, the majority of the collectibles are emergent story vignettes involving a lot of listening to audio logs and/or reading poetry or short narrative essays. It's nice that they're optional, but if you're into that kind of payoff, the collectibles deliver.

Is it just me, or do the arena and melee fighting pits suddenly get insanely difficult?

I didn't realize how much I relied on stealth and then, when things went wrong, brute force numerical superiority. Being forced into active combat with a fixed loadout means that even at level 50 with almost everything else done, I can't even do the intermediate challenges.

They really want to force you to master resonator blasts. Not enough to make it required to get through the story, but you'll hit a wall in the arena and fighting pits otherwise. (They also really want to force you to use elemental weaknesses on machines, and I think you'll have trouble with the main story if you don't.)

Of course, I know I can just drop the difficulty. So I'm kind of stewing on whether to swallow my pride and do that; or to keep practicing and git gud; or just to decide I don't actually care all that much about achievements.

beeporama wrote:

Is it just me, or do the arena and melee fighting pits suddenly get insanely difficult?

I didn't realize how much I relied on stealth and then, when things went wrong, brute force numerical superiority. Being forced into active combat with a fixed loadout means that even at level 50 with almost everything else done, I can't even do the intermediate challenges.

They really want to force you to master resonator blasts. Not enough to make it required to get through the story, but you'll hit a wall in the arena and fighting pits otherwise. (They also really want to force you to use elemental weaknesses on machines, and I think you'll have trouble with the main story if you don't.)

Of course, I know I can just drop the difficulty. So I'm kind of stewing on whether to swallow my pride and do that; or to keep practicing and git gud; or just to decide I don't actually care all that much about achievements.

Interestingly, I dropped the Arena difficulty to Story until I got Forgefall and then just never bothered going back. I’m not really all that down with the entire open battle idea. Probably why I’m not jonesing for the Nora Thunder Warrior Outfit. I kept the difficulty at Hard in the melee pits and it was okay. The Enduring was pretty damned tough, though.

It’s a pretty elementary exercise but the funky controls just make it weird. You have to do a certain attack string when the opponent/s are doing something, but another attack string when they’re doing something else. I do absolutely use elemental weaknesses on machines, and I helped my daughter to finish the game on Normal. I’ve tackled all the machines on Hard and Very Hard. If you have a few Legendaries under your belt, completing the game on Normal should be pretty much a cakewalk.

If you’re having difficulty hitting your weakspots, I highly suggest using Custom Difficulty and turning on Auto-Concentration as well as lengthening Concentration Duration to Longer. Hitting weak spots is a major game mechanic and it’s just no fun if you simply can’t do that at all.

I would also try increasing the time dilation of the Crafting Menu so you can “pause” the game at any time by bringing up the Crafting Menu and then consider what to do.

I'm continually frustrated when the game suddenly thrusts me into combat with a new type of machine and I get to listen to Aloy calmly suggest scanning this machine to see if it has any weaknesses while taking multiple plasma blasts and/or melee attacks to the face. It's all I can do to drop a smoke bomb or get into hiding long enough to actually have the time to scan it.

Is there a way to simplify the items like traps and potions accessed via D-pad "down" so I don't have to scroll through 15 options while trying to find that specific thing I need before dying in 5 seconds?

Finished last night. Stayed up late playing two nights in a row, so I'm a little tired.

Compared to the original, I think it didn't have the same hooks in the first act. Zero Dawn's Aloy had to grapple with the existential questions: "Why am I here? Why is the world the way it is? Why are these people trying to kill me?" I was heavily invested in finding the answers. But those answers are pretty definitive, and they haven't changed in the sequel. So while new threats appear, they lack that personal hook.

Spoiler:

The exception would be in Beta, whom I appreciate because she is a chance for Ashly Burch to stunt on us by playing both sides of a dramatic dialogue. But she isn't a mystery; her origin is fairly obvious right away. And I thought Aloy was a little slow to understand why they're so different. Maybe Aloy has never heard of Nature vs. Nurture or twin studies, but GAIA really ought to understand that stuff. So when she finally figured it out, it was more of a relief than a payoff.

Actually, Beta's mental health is remarkably good for all the abuse she's suffered.

The last act was awesome. Better setpieces and better boss fights than Zero Dawn, in my opinion.

Mechanically I appreciate many of the changes. Some of my standbys from the first game, like the triple-nocked tearburst arrow, are nerfed, which gave me the motivation to switch things up a little. But I never got the hang of the resonator blast outside of the tutorials. "It sure takes a lot of hits to charge up my spear... is it glowing? Is it supposed to be glowing more? Oh wait, I missed my R2 strike. Never mind, I'll retreat and finish this guy with my bow."

LarryC wrote:

If you’re having difficulty hitting your weakspots, I highly suggest using Custom Difficulty and turning on Auto-Concentration as well as lengthening Concentration Duration to Longer. Hitting weak spots is a major game mechanic and it’s just no fun if you simply can’t do that at all.

I tried Auto-Concentration and eventually had to turn it back off, because there were times when I didn't want to use it - quick shots with warrior bows, tripcaster placements, etc.

My trouble with hitting weak spots is that the intricate geometry and detail on the machines combined with the Focus view that highlights different parts means that it's really hard for me to tell when a part is highlighted whether it's even accessible to attack. I've shot an awful lot of arrows bulls-eye on an acid or blaze canister only to realize that the bright purple glowing target is actually on the backside of whatever I'm shooting at, and my arrow just plinked off armor. It also doesn't help that a lot of the elemental targets are often near a machine's hindquarters, and as soon as they know I'm there they turn to face me and put those targets out of reach. Is the game really wanting you to hit those targets and then drop back into hiding, then repeat until the machine is down?

Boudreaux wrote:

I'm continually frustrated when the game suddenly thrusts me into combat with a new type of machine and I get to listen to Aloy calmly suggest scanning this machine to see if it has any weaknesses while taking multiple plasma blasts and/or melee attacks to the face. It's all I can do to drop a smoke bomb or get into hiding long enough to actually have the time to scan it.

Is there a way to simplify the items like traps and potions accessed via D-pad "down" so I don't have to scroll through 15 options while trying to find that specific thing I need before dying in 5 seconds?

When you press down on the Dpad for a long to enter the quick-craft menu for items, there will be a “change” option by using the square button. That will change the item that is assigned to that slot. You can equip or unequip slots as you choose, and you can put them in any order as well as having only the things you want.

Boudreaux wrote:
LarryC wrote:

If you’re having difficulty hitting your weakspots, I highly suggest using Custom Difficulty and turning on Auto-Concentration as well as lengthening Concentration Duration to Longer. Hitting weak spots is a major game mechanic and it’s just no fun if you simply can’t do that at all.

I tried Auto-Concentration and eventually had to turn it back off, because there were times when I didn't want to use it - quick shots with warrior bows, tripcaster placements, etc.

My trouble with hitting weak spots is that the intricate geometry and detail on the machines combined with the Focus view that highlights different parts means that it's really hard for me to tell when a part is highlighted whether it's even accessible to attack. I've shot an awful lot of arrows bulls-eye on an acid or blaze canister only to realize that the bright purple glowing target is actually on the backside of whatever I'm shooting at, and my arrow just plinked off armor. It also doesn't help that a lot of the elemental targets are often near a machine's hindquarters, and as soon as they know I'm there they turn to face me and put those targets out of reach. Is the game really wanting you to hit those targets and then drop back into hiding, then repeat until the machine is down?

Basically yes. If you’re well hidden and have max Low Profile, the first attack won’t reveal your location. You can take a second shot pretty quickly. In general, you only want to highlight things occasionally, and generally you only want to target things that will actually be vulnerable to be hit when the machine is facing you in a combat-ready position.

For instance, it’s generally NOT worth it to try to target a Charger’s Blaze cannister. You will have better luck just shooting the horns off. Most machines will have some sort of weak spot right in front, or have weak spots that are visible from the front. Weak spots in the back are usually for tearing off using sneak attacks and will usually be juicy targets for Tear attacks.

Many machines will just have vulnerable targets at center mass, though there are a significant number of machines that will absolutely have their center mass heavily armored. The spots you can take depends on which weapon you’re using and how.

As an example, the standard Longlegs is vulnerable to Shock Element and has Shock Coils in the back. So what you do is just hit it with Shock Arrows until it keels over, and then you trigger Shock Reactions in both Coils before the Shocked State is over. You will want to time the second explosion to happen after the Shocked State passes so the new explosion will create a new Shocked State and the Longlegs keels over again (and hopefully takes out a bunch of other machines nearby. After that, it’s a simple matter of loading your highest damage option and aiming it at pointblank range at the sensor assembly in the head.

Boudreaux wrote:

Is there a way to simplify the items like traps and potions accessed via D-pad "down" so I don't have to scroll through 15 options while trying to find that specific thing I need before dying in 5 seconds?

As LarryC mentions, you can change the order and hide items in the D-pad menu, but as I'm finding with a lot of Forbidden West, that still seems like a patch on the essential problem of the game, that there's just too much. I'm now over 80 hours in and somewhere past the halfway point in the main story, and it increasingly feels to me like Guerilla confused "more" and "more complex" with "better". For me at least the game would have been better if it was more focused, there was less to do, there were less complicated skill trees, less weapons (at some point I just want one bow that does everything, rather than having to toggle between three different bows with different elemental effects strewn between them), less skills, less endless variations on machines, etc.

Evan E wrote:
Boudreaux wrote:

Is there a way to simplify the items like traps and potions accessed via D-pad "down" so I don't have to scroll through 15 options while trying to find that specific thing I need before dying in 5 seconds?

As LarryC mentions, you can change the order and hide items in the D-pad menu, but as I'm finding with a lot of Forbidden West that still seems like a patch on the essential problem of Forbidden West, that there's just too much. I'm now over 80 hours in and somewhere past the halfway point in the main story, and it increasingly feels to me like Guerilla confused "more" and "more complex" with "better". For me at least the game would have been better if it was more focused, there was less to do, there were less complicated skill trees, less weapons (at some point I just want one bow that does everything, rather than having to toggle between three different bows with different elemental effects strewn between them), less skills, less endless variations on machines, etc.

I think the game improves significantly if you just take the parts of those mechanics that you like and you run with those and just ignore the rest.

As an example, Glinthawks are still an enemy type in HFW. Yeah, those ice-chucking jerks are back. They are vulnerable to fire. You can choose to bring them down with Fire and then go all stabbity on them when they go down with a boosted level 4 Critical+ Critical Strike. That’s one way to go. Or you can burst the Chillwater sac conveniently placed right in front of their bodies at center mass, trigger the Brittle Condition with the explosion and then snipe out the beak for the killing blow. Both of these are quick and efficient ways to deal with them.

I find myself largely ignoring Fire, Plasma, and Purgewater and heavily leaning on Acid, Frost, and Shock. Of course, the best “element” is explosive damage and firing an explosive arrow into machine faces is usually the only “element” you need for quick dispatches.

This doesn’t mean I don’t see the value in Purgewater, mind. Many machines have almost all of their most dangerous attacks neutered if you just keep them Drenched. There is some value in Drenching everything and then loading your favorite damage option with +Drenched Damage Coils.

Evan E wrote:

.... but as I'm finding with a lot of Forbidden West, that still seems like a patch on the essential problem of the game, that there's just too much.... I' less weapons (at some point I just want one bow that does everything, rather than having to toggle between three different bows with different elemental effects strewn between them)

+1 or more.

I picked up my 3rd hunter bow last night. I wanted one that used cold but only had basic, fire, and one other one I can't even remember but none of those would shoot ice type ammo. And of course the ice one won't shoot fire or poison. But the fire one won't shoot normal or ice, and the normal won't shoot fire or ice and the other one won't shoot .....damm I don't even remember what!

However there is always a lack with each one such that to have all the types I need to have 4 hunter bows, but then if I want sharpshooter I have to have another bow, and if I want those cool spears I have to have two different ones because one is tough but the other explodes.

And I haven't even equipped trip wires, the gatling gun thing, bowcasters, etc.

Maybe at some point I will get a hunter bow that does all ammo types and can free up some of the weapon wheel but currently there is just to many things with too much fiddling.

I know I could scan before a fight and only equip the right bows, but then I have to do that before basically every group, and fiddle with this and fuss over that...etc.

I love the characters, the world, even the combat but they really went overboard in believing more is better on everything rather than strategically planning.

LarryC wrote:
Boudreaux wrote:

I'm continually frustrated when the game suddenly thrusts me into combat with a new type of machine and I get to listen to Aloy calmly suggest scanning this machine to see if it has any weaknesses while taking multiple plasma blasts and/or melee attacks to the face. It's all I can do to drop a smoke bomb or get into hiding long enough to actually have the time to scan it.

Is there a way to simplify the items like traps and potions accessed via D-pad "down" so I don't have to scroll through 15 options while trying to find that specific thing I need before dying in 5 seconds?

When you press down on the Dpad for a long to enter the quick-craft menu for items, there will be a “change” option by using the square button. That will change the item that is assigned to that slot. You can equip or unequip slots as you choose, and you can put them in any order as well as having only the things you want.

This is a really useful tip, cheers.

I just don't use traps at all (tripwires, on the other hand...) and get super sick of D-padding furiously past them in a frantic combat moment to get to my potions or smoke bombs

Yes it took me ages to realise you can remove items from the list this way. I've now sorted it so my stealth items are all together and my traps likewise, which is much better.

I use traps much more than tripwires, btw. I find them great for inflicting status effects and they don't take up a weapon wheel slot. A lot of machines seem to avoid my tripwires, going over or around them. I'm not sure if this is deliberate!

farley3k wrote:
Evan E wrote:

.... but as I'm finding with a lot of Forbidden West, that still seems like a patch on the essential problem of the game, that there's just too much.... I' less weapons (at some point I just want one bow that does everything, rather than having to toggle between three different bows with different elemental effects strewn between them)

+1 or more.

I picked up my 3rd hunter bow last night. I wanted one that used cold but only had basic, fire, and one other one I can't even remember but none of those would shoot ice type ammo. And of course the ice one won't shoot fire or poison. But the fire one won't shoot normal or ice, and the normal won't shoot fire or ice and the other one won't shoot .....damm I don't even remember what!

However there is always a lack with each one such that to have all the types I need to have 4 hunter bows, but then if I want sharpshooter I have to have another bow, and if I want those cool spears I have to have two different ones because one is tough but the other explodes.

And I haven't even equipped trip wires, the gatling gun thing, bowcasters, etc.

Maybe at some point I will get a hunter bow that does all ammo types and can free up some of the weapon wheel but currently there is just to many things with too much fiddling.

I know I could scan before a fight and only equip the right bows, but then I have to do that before basically every group, and fiddle with this and fuss over that...etc.

I love the characters, the world, even the combat but they really went overboard in believing more is better on everything rather than strategically planning.

I delayed discussing this because I didn’t want to fanboy too hard on Forbidden West, but I guess there’s no helping that now, LOL.

I think the intention is for the player NOT to have all the available elements on hand all the time. I think the intention is for you to choose your weapons and how they interact with each other with intention and with consideration for how you want to approach the specific machines you’ll be hunting on your current journey, instead of your weapon wheels just having everything you want all the time.

For instance, Talanah’s Lightning Bow reward is a fantastic weapon, not only because it has Advanced Lightning Ammo, which is great even for machines that don’t have a specific weakness to Shock Element, but it also has regular Shock Ammo, which is excellent for conserving on ammo resources when you’re hunting machines that are vulnerable to Shock Element. So if you’re intending to equip that, your weapon wheel strategy is at least partially geared to shocking machines and then dealing damage to them while they’re shocked, either by using Impact damage to target weak spots, or taking them apart literally with high-Tear weapons. Thus, your secondary weapons will be weapons that deal high damage or high Tear, with a premium on weapons and coils that add damage to machines in a Shocked State.

Your secondary concern here is how to deal with machines that are resistant to Shock Element. You could tie them down with a Ropecaster, or use Brittle from Frost ammo to deal high amounts of damage to them very quickly. Your damage sources will be relevant here.

So far, we have a Lightning Bow, a damage option, a Tear option, and an out for machines that won’t fall to Shock element. Four weapons. For our remaining two options, we could choose Sneak Attack weapons we can use at long range as additional outs for machines that won’t fall to Shock (Hardweave Sharpshot Bow outfitted for maximum Stealth damage output), melee-centric weapons that can help us to melee machines that we’re confident we can eliminate in close quarters, or a wide-variety Elemental weapon (Icestorm Boltblaster, Sun Scourge) that we can use primarily to trigger reactions.

Alternatively, we could equip a Cannister Ropecaster with very high Elemental Status on it across a variety of elements, and matching weaponry with which to shoot those cannisters to exploit three different elemental weaknesses. The remaining 4 slots should be dedicated to high-impact or explosive weapons for us to actually exploit the elemental states, and possibly one of them being an out for machines that are resistant to the three elements we’re using.

I do not think the intention is just to have all the elements available all the time. Even the Coils don’t really support this strategy since they generally only boost one or two elements at a time, and having a bow that’s mediocre at three elements is much less effective than just having the one bow (like a Frost Hunter bow) that’s boosted by all its Coils to deal specialized elemental buildup.

farley3k wrote:
Evan E wrote:

.... but as I'm finding with a lot of Forbidden West, that still seems like a patch on the essential problem of the game, that there's just too much.... I' less weapons (at some point I just want one bow that does everything, rather than having to toggle between three different bows with different elemental effects strewn between them)

+1 or more.

It's funny, for all the ways this game mimics the progression from Mass Effect 1 to 2, the one thing it didn't do is streamline the weapons. It almost feels like they had too many shops, side quests, errands etc for which you need loot, and not enough loot variety to be rewarding, so they created this needlessly complex loot set by adding in all these weapon attributes.

I am slowly learning to ignore the weapons that don't interest me, but my brain has a hard time accepting that I can't have everything all the time.

Edit: I see your point Larry, and I'm trying to get in that mindset, but I still want to play with all the toys!