Metroid Series Catch-All

Stele wrote:

Noticed there was a patch for Dread yesterday. Looked like a speed run bug because the patch notes mentioned some players may accidentally get in that state hehe.

They patched out the invincibility bug, which was a critical part of the any% speedrun route. I'm not sure exactly how it worked, but you'd do some weird roll into an EMMI zone door, and if you hit a specific frame you'd be invincible until you travel to another region. So they used this to get around cold and hot areas, and completely skipped having to get any kind of suit whatsoever.

But with that bug gone, the any% route has to be totally different, and much slower. The community is in a bit of an uproar about it, feeling quite betrayed by Nintendo, and the mods are still trying to figure out what to do going forward. Some people want to stay locked on the older version of the game, similar to what happened with Mario Odyssey. But some people have already upgraded, and it's impossible to roll back to a previous version unless you reinstall from a physical cartridge, or own another switch with the version you want.

Anyway, it's quite a bit of drama. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

I can technically understand the idea, though. Despite being super rare, it's something any non-speedrunner could stumble into, and because of that, people that don't know what they're doing could get themselves into trouble just as easily as they might have a fun time being invincible.

At the same time, it does seem like it reduces some of the skill even for any% speedrunning because you can take no damage.

Then again, I'm not part of the speedrunning community, I don't know what would be a legit or not-legit bug to exploit.

ccesarano wrote:

Then again, I'm not part of the speedrunning community, I don't know what would be a legit or not-legit bug to exploit.

For Dread, they have a "no major glitches" category that removes most of this stuff, but for any% it's currently anything goes. Even though invincibility makes it easier, the base philosophy behind speedrunning is to beat the game as quickly as possible, no matter the cost. Hence why some people want to stick to the old version, even though its extremely inaccessible at this point and likely to dissuade new players from joining the scene.

For a game that’s barely a month old to patch an invincibility bug is not crazy. I know the crowd seems to be in more of an uproar than some of the runners I’ve watched.

EvilDead wrote:

I think I'm with you Farscry. I really liked Dread but tend to get more enjoyment out of the exploration in Metroidvanias than anything else. I'd be curious how this particular aspect compares to Samus Returns as I still need to play that.

What platform are you playing Super Metroid on? That might be something I wouldn't mind dabbling in.

I think Dread's exploration is more enjoyable than the Samus Returns remake, but I do think both have great maps to explore.

I've been replaying Super Metroid via the Switch Online virtual console.

And yeah, Cces is right, the Pro controller's D-pad is terrible. At least, mine is. Maybe more recently manufactured ones are better. Fortunately, the Hori Split Pad I use for portable play has a pretty darn good D-pad. A little mushy but pretty accurate and responsive enough.

Farscry wrote:

I think Dread's exploration is more enjoyable than the Samus Returns remake, but I do think both have great maps to explore.

I've been replaying Super Metroid via the Switch Online virtual console.

And yeah, Cces is right, the Pro controller's D-pad is terrible. At least, mine is. Maybe more recently manufactured ones are better. Fortunately, the Hori Split Pad I use for portable play has a pretty darn good D-pad. A little mushy but pretty accurate and responsive enough.

Hmmm, maybe the 8bitdo will do me better then. They really need to port Samus Returns to the switch.

Finally, finally beat this!

Spoiler:

Figuring out the powerbomb trick on the last phase was a real game-changer. I found it impossible to avoid both the orange orb thing and his attacks. But blowing up the orb and also getting health - big win!

I might post full thoughts later, but it's getting way past my bed time. Suffice to say, I really loved this game, but some things weren't so great. Regardless, it's great to have a new, good 2D Metroid.

Ok, some more thoughts, for whatever it's worth.

I'll always have a soft spot for Fusion. It was the first Metroid that I truly engaged with. I did play the original on the NES, but never really got into it much. Couldn't afford a SNES at the time, so I missed out on Super Metroid (and the rest of that generation). But eventually Fusion came out and I fell in love. So my thoughts on Dread probably change a lot based on that context.

Which is to say, the more linear structure didn't bother me too much. There were at least a few moments where I thought I was off doing my own thing, only to discover that I was actually on the right path, which I think is a good thing. It's something Fusion and Samus Returns didn't really do either.

Spoiler:

I feel like releasing the X was supposed to be a scary moment, but it just made me happy. Like, my reaction was more like "hell yeah, the X are here! It's just like Fusion now!". And with the way Fusion ended, it seemed a lot like the X maybe could have been buddys with Samus anyway.

The sudden Chozo lore-dump seemed a bit jarring. I don't know how I feel about any of that, to be honest. It's nice that Samus Returns kind of set up a lot of that stuff though. Maybe if I cared more about that game it'd be different.

It does seem like a game that's been weighed down with a) the lore of the series, b) the task of wrapping up a 35 year old series and c) Sakurai not really knowing what to do with the series, narratively speaking. I think whatever comes next will be better for starting with a blank slate. Something similar to Zelda would be good where, for normal people, it's just a new thing each time with a vague mythos (or even just characters) holding it all together. The Prime series was basically like that.

I have bigger complaints, but I'm still not sure if they're even complaints. They might just be me expecting one thing but getting something different, but just as good. Immediately after finishing it, I wanted to start a new game, which is really rare for me these days, so that probably says a lot. And the only other game I've thought about this much this year has been Psychonauts 2, which is far and away my GOTY.

I might start a Super Metroid run now? What's one more entry to the backlog?

Just a minor correction, but it's Yoshio Sakamoto that heads up Metroid. Sakurai is Kirby, Kid Icarus, and Smash.

Argh, of course he is! Thanks for pointing that out.

Long video, but it really illustrates how much effort went into just working on how Samus animates, let alone the other characters. It's a sort of "Ah, that's why this game is $60" moment where you realize how much effort and detail went in compared to similar, but smaller budget games.

100% item collection. Now onto the final boss. Holding off so the kids can watch me fail repeatedly. I think I may want to replay entirely on my own time without an audience to re-asses my feelings on the game, as I spaced out my play sessions so it didn't all gel together. Sitting at 12hr 49min. Probably would be shorter if there wasn't so much getting used to the controls again and instead, improving from one session to the next.

Good luck. Remember your power bombs.

What did I need the power bombs for? That one spot just before the final boss? Beat it yesterday and never once considered using a power bomb in the final boss battle. Final boss was hard but not frustrating. The patterns were pretty easy to recognize and avoid after a few tries, except maybe the hyper beam/sun combo. I'd say the battle just went on a bit too long. Restarted today to see how long it takes me now.

My feelings right now is that the boss battles were not very memorable, especially in the last half that relied on repeating the same type of fight. So much that it's taken me a while just to recall that one boss that changes a few times. I was also perplexed on how some of the puzzles to get items layered abilities, but not in a way that felt additive. Like a few bomb blocks, and then a power bomb, as if that did anything other than make you come back after getting the bomb only to find another block type stopping you, and get frustrated, which happened to me at least a handful of times.

Great game, but I need to replay to gather my thoughts more.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

What did I need the power bombs for? ... never once considered using a power bomb in the final boss battle. ... except maybe the hyper beam/sun combo.

Answered your own question.

Started replaying yesterday. So much smoother and faster now, despite a death to Kraid because I was attempting a few things differently.

As lead in to Dread I decided to, for the first time, go hands on with Fusion (GBA). The overriding feeling, for me, thus far, has been disappointment. Too linear. Lacking in challenge. Dull forgettable soundtrack. It's quite likely my least favorite of the 2D franchise. It controls quite well, I'll give it that. Otherwise, it feels a much lesser experience than Super (SNES), than Return of Samus (GB), and even Metroid (NES).

Along with Samus Returns (3DS), Fusion finds itself with the unenviable achievement that is uninspired to return to, to the point it may also remain unfinished. (I do want to retry Samus Returns.)

Perhaps the final stretch may ramp up my enjoyment with Fusion. If I can muster the effort. Or maybe a replay somewhere down the road. At present I had actually forgot I'd been playing it whilst pondering my GOTY 2022, and Fusion was one of the most recent to be played. Oof! Unheard of for a Metroid title.

Lacking challenge? Some of those bosses were a pain in the ass. And also there's this tiny window where you can get 100% items and it's very easy to lock yourself out of them and be forced to finish the game instead.

Fusion has a lot of faults. There is a reason it was the last entry in the 2D franchise for such a long time. Although, I do admire it for the risks the developers were willing to take. They pushed for a more narrative and experience-driven approach, which would have been largely successful if it wasn't so inferior to the more open ended exploration the series is known for. But they gave it their best shot. It is good for what it is.

Zero mission is really where they took all those lessons and infused them into the classic formula, and even now many still argue it is the best 2D entry thus far. But they wouldn't have gotten there without Fusion.

jamos5 wrote:

Zero mission is really where they took all those lessons and infused them into the classic formula, and even now many still argue it is the best 2D entry thus far. But they wouldn't have gotten there without Fusion.

I would highly disagree with those people given it is also quite linear, and it's map traversal is basically ping-pong back and forth on the map until you get to the unnecessary stealth section, and, once more, have a brief window where you can actually backtrack and get 100%.

I feel like Fusion and Zero have better polish and control than Super, but general map design of Super was best. Obviously I now feel like Dread is the best 2D one hands-down, but given the nature of EMMIs and the combat focus, I have no doubt that ...well, we're basically in Final Fantasy territory: there is no best, it's all just preference.

we're basically in Final Fantasy territory

Metroid XIV: Zebes Reborn is going to be lit.

Very much agree woth you Cces -- while I think Super may still be the one I prefer for its more relaxed style in comparison, Dread is absolutely a direct rival for best of the 2D games.

I am really, REALLY curious to see how Prime 4 turns out now!

Dread sold 2.9 million copies by the end of March, making it officially the best selling Metroid title. Hope that means more attention for the franchise.

mrtomaytohead wrote:

Dread sold 2.9 million copies by the end of March, making it officially the best selling Metroid title. Hope that means more attention for the franchise.

Coming in 2026... Metroid: Another M.

Y'all, I am in awe of Metroid Dread, especially the bosses. I am not very good at video games so most of them have taken dozens of attempts to beat but they are doable. And last time, I beat a variation on one (more specifically

Spoiler:

the X-Parasite Chozo Soldier)

on the first try which made me feel accomplished in a way games rarely do.

I'm not sure how far I am in but I hope it won't get too tough later on.

Spoiler:

I just got the super missles, plasma beam and spin boost.

I also want to give props to the devs since this is the smoothest that it has felt to control Samus. Love that they kept the melee counter from Samus Returns.

Yeah it really feels great. I keep meaning to go back for a couple more runs.

The final boss was a really rough time, IMO. Took me far more tries to defeat than I like for a Metroid title. Well-designed, but a little too heavily tuned towards demanding quick and precise control.

I really really like the Metroid series -EXCEPT- the prime (1ST PERSON) ones

Forlorn Hope wrote:

Y'all, I am in awe of Metroid Dread, especially the bosses. I am not very good at video games so most of them have taken dozens of attempts to beat but they are doable. And last time, I beat a variation on one (more specifically

Spoiler:

the X-Parasite Chozo Soldier)

on the first try which made me feel accomplished in a way games rarely do.

I'm not sure how far I am in but I hope it won't get too tough later on.

Spoiler:

I just got the super missles, plasma beam and spin boost.

I also want to give props to the devs since this is the smoothest that it has felt to control Samus. Love that they kept the melee counter from Samus Returns.

It was a really fun game and I'm looking forward to what they are planning on in the future. You should think about playing the new Prince of Persia next! It is just as smooth, on the Switch, but has so much more depth.

I tried the Prince of Persia demo. I had too much trouble parrying in handheld mode. I suppose I could take other approaches to combat, but if the core of your fighting isn't back-and-forth parries, are you really playing a Prince of Persia game?

Though there is something to be said for having the acrobatics actually matter in the fight.

I probably just need to get used to it. Or play on the TV. It does look like an awesome game, despite me being all grognard about the original.