Help me build my PC 2020 Catch All

Yeah but you can't get a 3060ti for $400.

Yeah, you can. Just gotta keep crossing fingers and trying. Folks got em yesterday. I missed out.

Has anyone built a rig with an APU? I am more than likely going to be building a gaming/animating and editing (primarily Blender) rig for my youngest (15 yo) for Christmas and wanted to see what someone else's experience has been with them and don't want to be bothered with spending a ton of loot on a GPU.

I have done some research and right now I am looking hard at the AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU. It appears to be pretty capable of 1080p (even better with 720p) gaming.

cartoonin wrote:

Has anyone built a rig with an APU? I am more than likely going to be building a gaming/animating and editing (primarily Blender) rig for my youngest (15 yo) for Christmas and wanted to see what someone else's experience has been with them and don't want to be bothered with spending a ton of loot on a GPU.

I have done some research and right now I am looking hard at the AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU. It appears to be pretty capable of 1080p (even better with 720p) gaming.

Here's mine, for a 15 year old likely to be playing full HD with mid to high settings in most recent titles, it won't dissapoint.

If you go the APU route, put a priority on higher speed RAM. Memory bandwidth is a constraining factor for APU performance, which is one reason the Steam Deck went with quad-channel LPDDR5. Much more so than with a standard build, you want to get fast memory for an APU build.

It's too bad Ryzen desktop APU chips aren't getting RDNA 2 based GPUs (like the one in the Steam Deck) until the 6000 series.

Has anyone given Intel's Iris XE a shot? There aren't a ton of benchmarks, but it seems even more powerful than the Vega stuff inside AMD.

But let's be serious here, folks, you'll be running everything on low with an APU. It'll be a functional holdover until gpus come back to earth, and it'll be great for old titles, but you're looking at something that will run things as well as a GPU from a decade ago (ie. GTX460). So, 720, 900 or 1080p depending on the game with low settings on modern titles and 30-50 fps for most games. Some games will look better than others on Low (Doom Eternal will look way better than Fortnite), so his mileage will vary depending on title.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Oh, one thing I forgot to say about NIS is that it's available for all NVIDIA GPUs from Maxwell (GeForce 700 series) on forward. So unlike DLSS, people that are still rocking non-RTX NVIDIA cards can make use of NIS.

I also noticed that DLSS in BF V requires DX12, which completely tanks performance on an old CPU like my 4690K. Since NIS supports chips back as far as Maxwell, I'm assuming it also doesn't require DX12, which could make it a huge value add for older systems.

So NIS is useless on any display less than 4K, IMO. Maybe that was already understood, but on my 1440p display even a slight reduction in resolution still looks very pixelated/jaggy using NIS. Might try turning sharpening all the way down to see if that helps at all.

Actually it's not totally useless. You can still use the sharpening slider when playing at full output res, which I found is helpful for spotting enemies in BF V since it creates a little bit of a halo effect around their edges.

Hey all. My five or six year old self-built PC, which serves dual purpose as gaming and work, is starting to act up here and there. Given that a failure of the machine would be... inconvenient from a work standpoint, I think it's time to replace it.

Given time constraints on my part, as well as the difficulty in getting GPUs, I'm considering buying a prebuilt instead of building my own machine this time around. Any recommendations on reputable, quality custom builders that I should be looking at? Seems there's a ton out there since last time I looked, and I'd like to separate the wheat from the chaff as it were.

I'm currently running an Intel i7-6700K, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070, 32GB RAM. I'd like to upgrade to something beefier that will last me another 3-5 years. Doesn't need to be cutting edge, a generation or two old on the GPU is fine. Definitely need to be able to drive three monitors (for work more than gaming), though I'm still at 1920x1080 so I imagine that shouldn't be too difficult.

I definitely want a quiet box though, as much as possible. Since I replaced the servers in my office with Synology units, my PC is now the loudest thing in the office, and I'd like to tame that down a bit if possible.

Quality of build and quietness of machine take priority over pricing for this particular purchase.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

EDIT TO ADD: I saw someone mention Origin a few pages back. Whether you guys would recommend them or not I don't know, but I took a moment to build out a machine on their site. So the questions above still apply, but also, any thoughts on the setup below? Definitely made some guesses, as things have certainly changed since I last built my machine, and I apparently have kept up even less than I thought I had!

Case : Corsair 5000D
Processors : AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core 3.7GHz (4.8GHz Max Boost)
Motherboard : ASRock X570 Extreme4
Memory : 64GB CORSAIR VENGEANCE RGB RT DDR4 3200MHz (2x32GB)
System Cooling : CORSAIR H150i PRO XT RGB Cooler
System Fans : ORIGIN PC Maximum Fan Kit
Graphics Cards : NVIDIA 8GB GeForce RTX 3070
Operating System Drive : 480GB Force MP510 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD
Hard Drive : 2TB Samsung 870 QVO Series
Power Supply : CORSAIR RM850 SERIES PLUS GOLD PSU
Audio : Integrated High-Definition Audio

I see nothing wrong there since it's all huge end. Ryzen will run cooler than Intel right now so good choice.

I am curious what you mean about your current rig acting up.

Operating System Drive : 480GB Force MP510 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD
Hard Drive : 2TB Samsung 870 QVO Series

I guess I don't understand this split. Next to the other high-end components, a gen 3 (maybe even gen 4) 2TB NVMe doesn't seem out of reach. Why bother with a SATA SSD?

As usual, I'll recommend at least pricing out a Dell Alienware system. Great quality, ease of use, support, and you don't void the warranty by adding or removing parts. I have 3 and they are all rock solid. Oh, and the liquid cooling is *quiet*. Even when the fans kick in it's not very loud at all. It can put out some heat, though, under graphics load.

garion333 wrote:

I am curious what you mean about your current rig acting up.

Weird, seemingly disconnected issues. It hung on boot at the Asus logo screen once or twice over the last few months. Shut down a few weeks ago without reason, though that may have been an issue with the UPS mistaking a power blip for a power outage and forcing the shutdown. Most recently had an entirely unexpected blue screen of death yesterday, which happened (coincidentally or not) at almost exactly the same time I plugged in an old 35mm headset that I hadn't used in years. It recovers every time, and I could probably diagnose and resolve the underlying issues, but given the machine's age and the need for stability due to work, it's probably safer to get a new one and demote this one.

Agathos wrote:
Operating System Drive : 480GB Force MP510 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD
Hard Drive : 2TB Samsung 870 QVO Series

I guess I don't understand this split. Next to the other high-end components, a gen 3 (maybe even gen 4) 2TB NVMe doesn't seem out of reach. Why bother with a SATA SSD?

Looks like upgrading the 500GB NVMe to a 2TB and removing the SSD would be a net wash cost wise. I only put it in this way as I've always separated the OS/boot drive from everything else. Is that not best practice anymore?

Robear wrote:

As usual, I'll recommend at least pricing out a Dell Alienware system. Great quality, ease of use, support, and you don't void the warranty by adding or removing parts. I have 3 and they are all rock solid. Oh, and the liquid cooling is *quiet*. Even when the fans kick in it's not very loud at all. It can put out some heat, though, under graphics load.

My wife keeps suggesting Dell/Alienware as well. The few reviews I've looked at list the major drawback of the Alienware is that it sounds like a jet engine. That, and the odd case shape are the two things that have kept me from looking into it further. Interesting to hear you say that they're quiet though, if that's the case they could come back into the running.

Teneman wrote:
Agathos wrote:
Operating System Drive : 480GB Force MP510 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD
Hard Drive : 2TB Samsung 870 QVO Series

I guess I don't understand this split. Next to the other high-end components, a gen 3 (maybe even gen 4) 2TB NVMe doesn't seem out of reach. Why bother with a SATA SSD?

Looks like upgrading the 500GB NVMe to a 2TB and removing the SSD would be a net wash cost wise. I only put it in this way as I've always separated the OS/boot drive from everything else. Is that not best practice anymore?

I always do the same. But the speeds are really great on these new drives, put old SATA to shame. Sometimes I've done the split virtually with a partition. Doesn't really give you the hardware failure backup, but at least makes it easy to reinstall or upgrade Windows with a clean boot.

I guess you can still partition these drives, but I've never had one big enough to bother? Back when I first got a 750GB drive or something, I made 250 for OS so I could format/reinstall Windows if needed and 500GB for gaming. Maybe you could make a 500GB OS partition and leave 1.5TB for gaming and still have all the speed?

They are quite quiet until the card powers up. But it's not a grindy, whining sound when the fans kick in. It's a strong whir and it really moves the air. I don't have issues with it but then I've worked with all sorts of computers all my life, so I'm not a good judge of what others consider loud. Does not interfere with conversations, TV or thinking.

Weird shape? Mine is just a standard deskside box that has rounded corners. I've seen a bit on the new ones but I'm not sure how it would be a problem?

Just pay attention to the various disk options. Mine only had one NVME slot so I figure I will buy another SSD when I need it. I want to see if I can keep my system down under 2TB.

Teneman wrote:
garion333 wrote:

I am curious what you mean about your current rig acting up.

Weird, seemingly disconnected issues. It hung on boot at the Asus logo screen once or twice over the last few months. Shut down a few weeks ago without reason, though that may have been an issue with the UPS mistaking a power blip for a power outage and forcing the shutdown. Most recently had an entirely unexpected blue screen of death yesterday, which happened (coincidentally or not) at almost exactly the same time I plugged in an old 35mm headset that I hadn't used in years. It recovers every time, and I could probably diagnose and resolve the underlying issues, but given the machine's age and the need for stability due to work, it's probably safer to get a new one and demote this one.

Agathos wrote:
Operating System Drive : 480GB Force MP510 NVMe PCIe M.2 SSD
Hard Drive : 2TB Samsung 870 QVO Series

I guess I don't understand this split. Next to the other high-end components, a gen 3 (maybe even gen 4) 2TB NVMe doesn't seem out of reach. Why bother with a SATA SSD?

Looks like upgrading the 500GB NVMe to a 2TB and removing the SSD would be a net wash cost wise. I only put it in this way as I've always separated the OS/boot drive from everything else. Is that not best practice anymore?

You might just try replacing the PSU first, those sounds kinda like power-related issues. Unless you're looking for an excuse to upgrade the whole thing of course

Robear wrote:

Weird shape? Mine is just a standard deskside box that has rounded corners. I've seen a bit on the new ones but I'm not sure how it would be a problem?

Perhaps not a problem as much as an aesthetic preference. I like my computers black and boxy

Chairman_Mao wrote:

You might just try replacing the PSU first, those sounds kinda like power-related issues. Unless you're looking for an excuse to upgrade the whole thing of course :)

A little from Column A, little from Column B...

So far no comments on Origin themselves. Are they a decent builder, or is there another builder I ought to be looking at?

Origin PC has been around for a while and had a good reputation as far as I know. They were bought by Corsair a year or two ago and I am not sure if that has changed anything.

Teneman wrote:

So far no comments on Origin themselves. Are they a decent builder, or is there another builder I ought to be looking at?

Wooden shipping crates! As a gamer I might instinctively attack my newly delivered system with a crowbar. But they look cool and secure.

I gather Origin was founded by the people who were running Alienware before its sale, when they got tired of working at Dell.

That would be a good choice, then. But surprisingly, Dell has maintained Alienware as a premier line, and so far has lived up to it. Very refreshing (and gibes with some, but not all, of their business/industrial hardware lines which have been upgraded over the last decade for quality and reliability).

Origin is a high quality builder, but you are paying for the experience as much as you are the hardware. You will get less performance per dollar from Origin than other options.

If money isn't your main concern and you want the more premium experience, well, that's what they're for.

*Legion* wrote:

Origin is a high quality builder, but you are paying for the experience as much as you are the hardware. You will get less performance per dollar from Origin than other options.

If money isn't your main concern and you want the more premium experience, well, that's what they're for.

So, what are the other options?

I'm asking because I've been building my own PCs since the late 90s and I genuinely don't know. I'm considering going with a liquid cooled set up for my next machine and I'm thinking I might prefer to have it professionally done by an experienced builder.

I'm interested in the liquid cooled option because I would like to minimize or eliminate fan noise. As I get older, it bothers me more and more.

Also, I have a thing about overstraining machines. I don't like doing it. It tweaks my anxiety response on a fundamental level. When the fans start racing, I feel, very subjectively, like things are overstraining and I just don't like it on a gut level.

Alienware.

Fans will race when the graphics card is working as expected in a graphics-heavy game. That's a fact of life. You should be worried if you *don't* hear them kick up on a graphics-intensive game or application.

Graphics cards and modern cpus can generate a *lot* of heat under load. That's normal. You can't find a system that won't work to cool the cpu and gpu when needed, and no matter how quiet it is at idle, it will be some degree louder under load. Plus a strong system will heat your room.

Can't escape heat (and some fan noise) these days as a byproduct of performance. Physics does not allow it.

Robear wrote:

Alienware.

Fans will race when the graphics card is working as expected in a graphics-heavy game. That's a fact of life. You should be worried if you *don't* hear them kick up on a graphics-intensive game or application.

Graphics cards and modern cpus can generate a *lot* of heat under load. That's normal. You can't find a system that won't work to cool the cpu and gpu when needed, and no matter how quiet it is at idle, it will be some degree louder under load. Plus a strong system will heat your room.

Can't escape heat (and some fan noise) these days as a byproduct of performance. Physics does not allow it.

Yes, I get all that. I've been building PCs for myself for ~25 years now. But, now I'm willing to consider paying a builder for maybe a dual waterblock set up with both the CPU and GPU being passively cooled. Obviously, the liquid also has to be cooled, but that can be done with a large array of quiet fans at constant speed.

I'm comfortable putting parts together, but I'm less comfortable with plumbing liquid coolant lines.

polq37 wrote:

I'm asking because I've been building my own PCs since the late 90s and I genuinely don't know. I'm considering going with a liquid cooled set up for my next machine and I'm thinking I might prefer to have it professionally done by an experienced builder.

I'm interested in the liquid cooled option because I would like to minimize or eliminate fan noise. As I get older, it bothers me more and more.

Also, I have a thing about overstraining machines. I don't like doing it. It tweaks my anxiety response on a fundamental level. When the fans start racing, I feel, very subjectively, like things are overstraining and I just don't like it on a gut level.

polq37 wrote:

Yes, I get all that. I've been building PCs for myself for ~25 years now. But, now I'm willing to consider paying a builder for maybe a dual waterblock set up with both the CPU and GPU being passively cooled. Obviously, the liquid also has to be cooled, but that can be done with a large array of quiet fans at constant speed.

I'm comfortable putting parts together, but I'm less comfortable with plumbing liquid coolant lines.

Damn man, are you sure you're not me? You just exactly encapsulated my thought process with this upgrade. I was looking strongly at liquid cooled as well, but had the same hesitations.

Anyway, I just ordered a machine from Origin. The basic setup is the same as what I posted earlier, with a tweak to replace the second SSD with an NVMe per Agathos' suggestion. Reviews I've read of Origin builds indicate that they're fairly quiet, so I'm hopeful. I didn't opt for the full on liquid cooled build (Corsair Hydro X Cooling), though the Corsair H150i Pro that it includes is still listed as being a liquid cooled unit, so we'll see how it goes. I should have the machine in a week or two, I'll try to remember to post here to let you know whether it's quiet enough for old geezer's like us!

polq37 wrote:

So, what are the other options?

CyberPower, Maingear, NZXT BLD... there's a number of them.

Linus Tech Tips does a great series where they order up PCs from a few of them while posing as regular ol' customers:

Gamers Nexus has also been doing a series of videos where they buy and rate pre-built PCs. They go way deeper than LTT did in their testing.

Alienware uses Asetek, but I've also used Corsair liquid cooling. Both were closed-loop, sealed at the factory, and have no refilling needed. When DIY-ing, you attach the radiator adjacent to an outlet fan (your choice but usually at the top), and attach the cooling unit to the cpu. So... No weirdness, no mysteries, easier than clipping on a giant block of aluminum. The screws that hold the fan and radiator together were a bit fiddly for me, but of course with a prebuilt it's all done for you.

Did you buy support? What was the HW cost? Just curious, if you don't want to divulge that's cool.

Origin doesn't seem to offer any buy up support. They tout 24/7 Lifetime Support for all builds. They do have a buy up for their warranty, which seems to be faster shipping of replacement parts. I didn't upgrade that at all.

Overall my build came in at $3,800 before taxes. Before I added the second NVMe I price shopped at Alienware, and the prices seemed comparable for similar (but not identical) setups. I could likely have built the system myself and saved a bit, but at this point the expediency is worth the premium for me.

Almost exactly what my Alienware ran me. It was a bit more, but I went with a 2TB NVME and a 3080, as well as an Intel processor. So that would account for it. (And I have only 32GB RAM)