Marvel Media (Spoiler Thread)

I found this fun and interesting to nit pick about

LOKI EPISODE 2 BREAKDOWN! Easter Eggs & Details You Missed!

farley3k wrote:
Spoiler:

I don't understand the whole female Loki. For that variant to exist either Loki was born a woman in that timeline and grew up - but wasn't a variant until she grew up because they didn't prune that branch when she was born. Or Loki had a sex change at some point - which is fine but why?

Loki is genderfluid. It’s been an aspect of his character in the comics for about a decade now but never really came up in the MCU until this point, but the show explicitly states it on the TVA arrest notice if you pause it for the couple of seconds it’s on-screen. Combine genderfluidity with shapeshifting powers and…

I mean, the mythological Loki changed into a mare and got knocked up. So I'm willing to buy that a variant MCU Loki might decide to be a pretty lady just because.

The bigger question to me is why they can apparently have divergent power sets.

I think we're assuming that the female antagonist actually is a Loki. We really only have the TVA's word on it and we don't know how they arrived to that conclusion (aside from the horns reference).

I think they're deliberately throwing out a lot of red herrings with regards to the Variant Loki.

They made a big deal out of her using enchantment magic, that plus the blonde hair and green magical effects makes it seem like she could actually be Amora the Enchantress.

She's apparently also listed as "Silvie" in the credits, which could mean she's actually Silvie Lushton, the second Enchantress (who got her powers from Loki).

However, she's also wearing the same crown as Lady Loki from the comics:
IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/C2LOVJN.jpg)

farley3k wrote:
Spoiler:

I don't understand the whole female Loki. For that variant to exist either Loki was born a woman in that timeline and grew up - but wasn't a variant until she grew up because they didn't prune that branch when she was born. Or Loki had a sex change at some point - which is fine but why?

The first one would imply that the "sacred timeline" can have two opposite sex versions of the same person. Which kind of seems like "the timeline" can involve things that can't both exist in the same reality. IE Loki couldn't be born as both a male and female in one reality. So the timeline might be sacred but reality isn't...?

And the second one is fine. Loki had all that money he stole from the plane but why would he? Or is he just using a female appearance the way he used looking like Odin? Which again brings up - why? He pretended to be Odin to rule Asgard. Why is he pretending to be a woman in this varaiant?

Part of me just thinks they are being "edgy" and "cool" to match the world we live in which is fine I guess but it just feels forced. At least when they wanted to make Captain America more diverse they just passed the shield on rather than make some Steve Rogers variant that was still Steve but black. Or when they make Thor a woman in the next Thor movie it won't be changing Thor but giving the powers of Thor to a woman.

The situation in Loki appears less comprehensible. Maybe they will really nail the story and make me go - wow that is clever and makes sense (like the first time I saw Memento) but to be honest the marvel folks haven't done a great job with that.

Could be enchantress and not lady Loki.

Brizahd wrote:
farley3k wrote:
Spoiler:

I don't understand the whole female Loki. For that variant to exist either Loki was born a woman in that timeline and grew up - but wasn't a variant until she grew up because they didn't prune that branch when she was born. Or Loki had a sex change at some point - which is fine but why?

The first one would imply that the "sacred timeline" can have two opposite sex versions of the same person. Which kind of seems like "the timeline" can involve things that can't both exist in the same reality. IE Loki couldn't be born as both a male and female in one reality. So the timeline might be sacred but reality isn't...?

And the second one is fine. Loki had all that money he stole from the plane but why would he? Or is he just using a female appearance the way he used looking like Odin? Which again brings up - why? He pretended to be Odin to rule Asgard. Why is he pretending to be a woman in this varaiant?

Part of me just thinks they are being "edgy" and "cool" to match the world we live in which is fine I guess but it just feels forced. At least when they wanted to make Captain America more diverse they just passed the shield on rather than make some Steve Rogers variant that was still Steve but black. Or when they make Thor a woman in the next Thor movie it won't be changing Thor but giving the powers of Thor to a woman.

The situation in Loki appears less comprehensible. Maybe they will really nail the story and make me go - wow that is clever and makes sense (like the first time I saw Memento) but to be honest the marvel folks haven't done a great job with that.

Could be enchantress and not lady Loki.

That's the prevailing rumour due to a slip on the actors' name at the end credits for other countries.

Are they setting up Loki to have a love connection with...another version of himself?

The epitome of narcissism?

actually that would fit Loki fairly well.

So, Loki confirmed as bisexual, at the very least.

I don't think it's a screw up in the credits. She specifically says not to call her loki or a variant. She specifically says her name is Sylvie.

And despite it being said in passing, why wouldn't a God or demigod be pan bi or a sexual? If you are all about power and you have more power than a human, gender would be limiting with no potential benefit.

I like the show because it's smart and pair of Wilson and Hiddleston is off key magic. I love that they effortlessly switch between straight man and fop a handful of times each scene! Also for you actor geeks, Hiddleston did a complete character arc just by standing up in the Walmart scene when the charm gets transfered from the TVA guard to the greeter. Such a talent!

Didn’t really dig this episode but I do wonder if after she touched Loki if it is all in his mind like the previous scene with the TVA agent?

Also couldn’t he just conjure and give Sylvie an illusional control pad?

Brizahd wrote:

Didn’t really dig this episode but I do wonder if after she touched Loki if it is all in his mind like the previous scene with the TVA agent?

Also couldn’t he just conjure and give Sylvie an illusional control pad?

I initially had the same theory, that everything after she touched his head in the shack could be in his head. But she said for strong-willed people, they had to exist in a memory, like the restaurant for the TVA agent. It seemed like Lamentis-1 was new to Loki, so I think all of that was real.

Do Loki's illusions stand up to handling? I'm under the impression they don't, but I'm probably forgetting some past examples. That leads me to the second theory I had, that the broken TemPad was an illusion. It reappeared broken, the fell apart onto the ground. Sylvie never touched it or tried to use it.

I thought the broken pad was an illusion as well until the very end of the episode. I don’t think Loki would be as shook as he was if he still had the real pad, though.

I felt it was an odd episode for a 6 episode show. Nothing enough happened to justify spending 16% of the season time on it. We got bits of Loki backstory but not really anything about Sylvie (not even if she was a real Loki variant). We found out how her thing worked, a bit. It was well acted, and the two leads have good chemistry (Hiddleston appears to have good chemistry with everyone and everything though).

I'm hoping some of that will become important later, but it felt like an odd diversion for such a short season.

fangblackbone wrote:

I don't think it's a screw up in the credits. She specifically says not to call her loki or a variant. She specifically says her name is Sylvie.

Which is the name for the Enchantress. No big deal because she says it this episode, but it was an early sign an episode early for those that caught it.

DudleySmith wrote:

I felt it was an odd episode for a 6 episode show. Nothing enough happened to justify spending 16% of the season time on it. We got bits of Loki backstory but not really anything about Sylvie (not even if she was a real Loki variant). We found out how her thing worked, a bit. It was well acted, and the two leads have good chemistry (Hiddleston appears to have good chemistry with everyone and everything though).

I'm hoping some of that will become important later, but it felt like an odd diversion for such a short season.

We also learned that all of the TVA agent's are slaves and don't even know it. If Sylvie/Lady Loki's plan fails, it seems likely that introducing that bit of knowledge to a certain agent could also bring about the destruction of the TVA.

Badferret wrote:
DudleySmith wrote:

I felt it was an odd episode for a 6 episode show. Nothing enough happened to justify spending 16% of the season time on it. We got bits of Loki backstory but not really anything about Sylvie (not even if she was a real Loki variant). We found out how her thing worked, a bit. It was well acted, and the two leads have good chemistry (Hiddleston appears to have good chemistry with everyone and everything though).

I'm hoping some of that will become important later, but it felt like an odd diversion for such a short season.

We also learned that all of the TVA agent's are slaves and don't even know it. If Sylvie/Lady Loki's plan fails, it seems likely that introducing that bit of knowledge to a certain agent could also bring about the destruction of the TVA.

I think the relationship building between Loki and Sylvia was important, and some of the alternative views of the TVA were important. We got Mobius's side, now we're seeing either that he was misinformed by his own agency, or worse, was lying to Loki.

All important stuff to set up the back half of this show. I like it other than the green screeniness of some of it.

Pillboi is pretty crafty

IMAGE(https://imagesvc.meredithcorp.io/v3/mm/image?url=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.onecms.io%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2Fsites%2F6%2F2020%2F09%2F25%2FGettyImages-1054029366.jpg)

MannishBoy wrote:
Badferret wrote:
DudleySmith wrote:

I felt it was an odd episode for a 6 episode show. Nothing enough happened to justify spending 16% of the season time on it. We got bits of Loki backstory but not really anything about Sylvie (not even if she was a real Loki variant). We found out how her thing worked, a bit. It was well acted, and the two leads have good chemistry (Hiddleston appears to have good chemistry with everyone and everything though).

I'm hoping some of that will become important later, but it felt like an odd diversion for such a short season.

We also learned that all of the TVA agent's are slaves and don't even know it. If Sylvie/Lady Loki's plan fails, it seems likely that introducing that bit of knowledge to a certain agent could also bring about the destruction of the TVA.

I think the relationship building between Loki and Sylvia was important, and some of the alternative views of the TVA were important. We got Mobius's side, now we're seeing either that he was misinformed by his own agency, or worse, was lying to Loki.

All important stuff to set up the back half of this show. I like it other than the green screeniness of some of it.

My son speculated that there might be several variants of Mobius, each serving a different multiverse, or different timeline assignment. The water rings on the table in Ravonna's office suggest there have been many other visits by many other Mobius variants.

I made the comparison to the Tom Cruise movie Oblivion: brainwashed variants loyally serving masters they've never met.

JLS wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:
Badferret wrote:
DudleySmith wrote:

I felt it was an odd episode for a 6 episode show. Nothing enough happened to justify spending 16% of the season time on it. We got bits of Loki backstory but not really anything about Sylvie (not even if she was a real Loki variant). We found out how her thing worked, a bit. It was well acted, and the two leads have good chemistry (Hiddleston appears to have good chemistry with everyone and everything though).

I'm hoping some of that will become important later, but it felt like an odd diversion for such a short season.

We also learned that all of the TVA agent's are slaves and don't even know it. If Sylvie/Lady Loki's plan fails, it seems likely that introducing that bit of knowledge to a certain agent could also bring about the destruction of the TVA.

I think the relationship building between Loki and Sylvia was important, and some of the alternative views of the TVA were important. We got Mobius's side, now we're seeing either that he was misinformed by his own agency, or worse, was lying to Loki.

All important stuff to set up the back half of this show. I like it other than the green screeniness of some of it.

My son speculated that there might be several variants of Mobius, each serving a different multiverse, or different timeline assignment. The water rings on the table in Ravonna's office suggest there have been many other visits by many other Mobius variants.

I made the comparison to the Tom Cruise movie Oblivion: brainwashed variants loyally serving masters they've never met.

I've heard that theory about Mobius mentioned somewhere, and I would not be surprised. There's also some dialogue that backs it up as well.

Anyone actually suspect that perhaps a Loki variant is already running the timeline? Or perhaps the time keepers are all Loki variants? Maybe some other twist like Odin and his wife are 2 of the time keepers?

I think what I've learned through the first two MCU shows is that there isn't as much going on as we like to theorize is going on.

And there's lots of red herrings Bohners.

IMAGE(https://eloutput.com/app/uploads-eloutput.com/2021/02/pietro-wandavision-disney.jpg)

That doesn't stop the fun of the speculation, though. Maybe they'll actual layer in as much stuff as the fans come up with.

One thing that stands out as odd is the falling tower towards the end of the episode that nearly squashes the Lokis (Lokuses?) but instead reverses and stands back up. Neither of the Lokis have their magic glow when it happens plus it’s not really something that either would be capable of. It does lend a little plausibility to the theory that none of that is real.

I thought Loki used his power to stop it falling and stand it back up... He said something like ,I got it before he motioned with his arms. But I saw no green magic so maybe wasn't him.

That is what it looked like. We have seen some telekinetic force from Loki before, but certainly not on the scale of pushing a falling tower away.

Medmey wrote:

I thought Loki used his power to stop it falling and stand it back up... He said something like ,I got it before he motioned with his arms. But I saw no green magic so maybe wasn't him.

Yeah, I rewatched and he does yell “I got it,” which I missed the first time. I just thought it was weird because I don’t think we’ve seen power use near anything of that scale before.

Zomg I just figured it out.
Our loki has figured out the charm thing and is in fem Loki mind to both try and redeem her or find out where the time keepers are. The moon they are on is from her memory. She's lived through this before.

That was the weirdest episode of Dr. Who ever.

Seriously, either one of those actors would make a great Doctor.