Wargamer's Corner

Robear wrote:

Field of Glory II Medieval - Reconquista is now out. I forgot to mention it last week, sorry.

An unexplored area of conflicft, although GMT is getting into the mix with Almorovid.

Please post impressions, those of you who buy it!

Neutrino wrote:

After seeing that Order of Battle WWII had a sale on Steam for its DLC, I went back and played one of the Pacific maps last night and enjoyed my time with it.

It has similarities to Panzer Corps but different in the way it incorporates front lines and supply. I may just pick up the Pacific Pack DLC to complete my collection for that region and play some more.

All the Order of Battle expansions are part of the Steam Daily Deal, from May 25th, 10 AM PST to May 27th, 10 AM PST.

Individual DLCs are up to 76% off, and you can get extra discounts by purchasing special bundles: the Weltkrieg pack, which puts you in charge of the German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe, adds an extra 23% discount.

I really enjoyed what I played with this series, but I was very much missing branching campaigns. I've been playing a fair amount of PanzerCorps over the past year, which is a similar, and some of the campaigns have a good amount of splits.

But there is a lot more DLC content now with OoB. Have they added any campaigns that have added branches?

Godzilla Blitz wrote:
Neutrino wrote:

After seeing that Order of Battle WWII had a sale on Steam for its DLC, I went back and played one of the Pacific maps last night and enjoyed my time with it.

It has similarities to Panzer Corps but different in the way it incorporates front lines and supply. I may just pick up the Pacific Pack DLC to complete my collection for that region and play some more.

All the Order of Battle expansions are part of the Steam Daily Deal, from May 25th, 10 AM PST to May 27th, 10 AM PST.

Individual DLCs are up to 76% off, and you can get extra discounts by purchasing special bundles: the Weltkrieg pack, which puts you in charge of the German Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe, adds an extra 23% discount.

I really enjoyed what I played with this series, but I was very much missing branching campaigns. I've been playing a fair amount of PanzerCorps over the past year, which is a similar, and some of the campaigns have a good amount of splits.

But there is a lot more DLC content now with OoB. Have they added any campaigns that have added branches?

I haven’t gone that deep into the DLC’s for the game, still working my way through the early Pacific ones.

I saw that the Sandstorm DLC added a branching dynamic campaign tree. I’m not sure if other recent campaigns also have them.

Sandstorm Infographic here: https://www.matrixgames.com/amazon/A...

The arrows connecting specific scenarios mean that the result in one scenario affects the other. For instance, the Crusader scenario will be different depending on whether or not you managed to capture Tobruk in the first scenario. This will allow for greater replaybility and more variety as your choices and accomplishments will actually matter.

---

Shortly after the game released the devs commented regarding the lack of branching campaigns - An insight into their reasoning:

“In a previous game we allowed users to get marginal and decisive victories. We even allow them to lose and the campaign progressed. We created a vast branching tree of missions. This is what we found.

Nobody wanted to lose. They would not even accept a marginal victory. Everyone (barring a tiny minority) reloaded the game to guarantee a decisive victory. Almost nobody saw a large chunk of the content we created because they wanted to win big. As a result we decided not to do that and we put all our effort in content the player will actually see.

Your core force is the key gameplay dynamic. You take it with you and customize it and upgrade it. They are like characters in an RPG.

Besides the transition of the core forces however, secondary objectives often impact things which happen later in the campaign (ex: killing battleship at Pearl Harbor prevents them from taking part of Midway). A branching campaign didn’t seem like an effective use of our limited time and resources.

The system does allow it however, so mods or (some) feature campaigns may contain branching. In fact, the Morning Sun expansion gives one more ultimate battle if you score decisive victories in the last 2 scenarios.

PS: The best way to look at a defeat is probably that you personally are relieved from command as a result of the mission’s failure, rather than it always leading to a complete defeat of the nation you control. IIRC some missions imply this by saying “the responsible commanders have been reassigned to distant garrisons” :)”

I picked up the Weltkrieg pack. I think I like OOB more than I like PC. For some reason, it feels more "wargamey" to me rather than "puzzlegamey". Not sure why I feel that way, but in OOB, if something is not working, I feel like I can work through it. Whereas, in PC, if something is not working I feel like I am just hosed and should just restart.

Neutrino wrote:

Interesting things...

I am that person. A branching campaign seems like something I would like a lot. But, I will reload after a defeat every time.

I’m leveling up my wargaming street cred.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/e6E53FP.jpg)

Neutrino wrote:

Comments on player behavior in branching campaigns

That's really interesting on what they saw with testers of the game and how they never took the lesser branch. I never would expect it would be so pronounced.

I'm playing an Allied Campaign with PanzerCorps now, and I've given myself 3 mulligans over the course of the campaign. So three times in total I can replay scenarios, but after that it's no turning back. For me, I'm interested in the story the campaign tells, so eventual defeat is fine.

I wonder if an element of design might be at play here as well. If the lesser branch feels like an irreversible path to defeat, then I can see people not wanting to start over to get as far as they did, and not taking the lesser option. But I feel like there could be ways to make the defeated branches feel interesting.

I apologize for totally spamming up this thread, but ...

... Humble Bundle is having a rather large Slitherine Publisher Sale.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I apologize for totally spamming up this thread, but ...

... Humble Bundle is having a rather large Slitherine Publisher Sale.

I don't think you have anything to apologise for! Some decent prices on there. I'd give a shout-out to Battle of the Bulge for anyone interested in an elegant wargame.

tboon wrote:

I picked up the Weltkrieg pack. I think I like OOB more than I like PC. For some reason, it feels more "wargamey" to me rather than "puzzlegamey". Not sure why I feel that way, but in OOB, if something is not working, I feel like I can work through it. Whereas, in PC, if something is not working I feel like I am just hosed and should just restart.

I enjoyed Order of Battle back when it came out, but I think I'm done with the game. I have a few issues with it, some OOB-specific and some more general:

1. At launch, I got pretty far through the US campaign -- up to 1944 and, IIRC, the Battle of the Philippines Sea. I took a break and came back to find that the game's new progression system (it went from "choose 1 of 2 upgrades between stages" at launch -> "spend points to choose upgrades") had broken my campaign -- things still technically worked but now I had no progression. Not a good look when a game breaks your long-running save like that.

2. I like under-represented theatres so I was quite interested in the Burma Road campaign -- unfortunately it didn't click with me. On the default difficulty level, it didn't FEEL like I was commanding a desperate Commonwealth force being kicked around Southeast Asia -- I remember drubbing the Japanese in the Fall of Singapore scenario, then sauntering away to the evacuation transports. (Then I turned up the difficulty, and holy difficulty spike!)

3. More broadly, I think I'm done with Panzer General clones. While they can be quite fun, I don't get a strong sense that they let me "reach out and touch history" (beyond a superficial level, ie the units are named "Panzer IV" and "Hurricane" instead of "Medium Tank" and "Fighter"). I can't put my finger on why, but it might be a combination of the puzzle-y mission designs, the lack of logistics (OOB is the exception here), the low unit density and no real sense of a front line ... compare something like Unity of Command 2, for instance, which "feels" like mechanised warfare in that there is a sense of urgency about breaching and exploiting the enemy line, or Battle of the Bulge / Desert Fox, where the Allies have to hang on by their fingernails in the face of the German tide before turning things around.

Hmm. Question for the Field of Glory II folks- is there somewhere I can see what is in all the army lists?

These games have A LOT of armies, and it’s cool! But I would love to know what is the difference between, say, a 323 BC Macedonian army and a 321 BC Macedonian army.

Mind Elemental wrote:

Hmm. Question for the Field of Glory II folks- is there somewhere I can see what is in all the army lists?

These games have A LOT of armies, and it’s cool! But I would love to know what is the difference between, say, a 323 BC Macedonian army and a 321 BC Macedonian army. :)

2 BC?

But in all seriousness - this might be useful.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I’m leveling up my wargaming street cred.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/e6E53FP.jpg)

Counter clippers are life.

Just picked up Hex of Steel, a one-person project WW2 grand strategy game that looks like a cross between Panzer Corps and the Grigsby games. Medium complexity, looks like. Nice to have these occasional oddities pop up on Steam.

Mind Elemental wrote:

I enjoyed Order of Battle back when it came out, but I think I'm done with the game. I have a few issues with it, some OOB-specific and some more general:

1. At launch, I got pretty far through the US campaign -- up to 1944 and, IIRC, the Battle of the Philippines Sea. I took a break and came back to find that the game's new progression system (it went from "choose 1 of 2 upgrades between stages" at launch -> "spend points to choose upgrades") had broken my campaign -- things still technically worked but now I had no progression. Not a good look when a game breaks your long-running save like that.

Yeah that sucks, I am sorry to hear it. My experience has been better but I keep installing/uninstalling the game so have not run into it myself. But something like that happening would be infuriating, for sure.

Mind Elemental wrote:

2. I like under-represented theatres so I was quite interested in the Burma Road campaign -- unfortunately it didn't click with me. On the default difficulty level, it didn't FEEL like I was commanding a desperate Commonwealth force being kicked around Southeast Asia -- I remember drubbing the Japanese in the Fall of Singapore scenario, then sauntering away to the evacuation transports. (Then I turned up the difficulty, and holy difficulty spike!)

Agree with all points.

Mind Elemental wrote:

3. More broadly, I think I'm done with Panzer General clones. While they can be quite fun, I don't get a strong sense that they let me "reach out and touch history" (beyond a superficial level, ie the units are named "Panzer IV" and "Hurricane" instead of "Medium Tank" and "Fighter"). I can't put my finger on why, but it might be a combination of the puzzle-y mission designs, the lack of logistics (OOB is the exception here), the low unit density and no real sense of a front line ... compare something like Unity of Command 2, for instance, which "feels" like mechanised warfare in that there is a sense of urgency about breaching and exploiting the enemy line, or Battle of the Bulge / Desert Fox, where the Allies have to hang on by their fingernails in the face of the German tide before turning things around.

OOB is my preferred "smash counters together game and see what happens" game. This is something that I occasionally want in a "wargame" setting. I am not looking for strict historicity nor super-deep strategy from it. If I really want that, I have other games that do that better at the expense of simpler smash'em up gameplay.

I think you touched on an aspect that makes me prefer this over PC/PzG: the addition of meaningful logistics. Even those OOB is at its heart a puzzle game like all these sorts of games, this addition makes it feel less puzzley to me and more wargamey.

I also think the liberal turn count on most scenarios helps with that feeling too. I don't feel like I am playing a Rube Goldberg game where everything has to happen on an exact schedule like some WWI mobilization plan or I will not be successful. Strict turn count limits is one reason I don't like the Unity of Commands more. I just end up feeling dumb because I cannot capture the victory point in 9 turns - I have enough things in life that make me feel dumb, I would rather not have my games reinforce that feeling all the time.

Natus wrote:
Godzilla Blitz wrote:

I’m leveling up my wargaming street cred.

(snip)

Counter clippers are life.

It's amazing how much better they look! It's so beautiful that I'm tearing up just looking at the game board.

Worked finished a bit early today so I took a bit of time seeing what I might do creating some cards for wargames. Decided to try to make a random events mod for the old Avalon Hill game Afrika Korps. Now have a set of 24 random event cards for the game. I'll print and laminate later this evening.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/sflOd3B.png)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/NqD4s3r.png)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/3r3ksE7.png)

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Worked finished a bit early today so I took a bit of time seeing what I might do creating some cards for wargames. Decided to try to make a random events mod for the old Avalon Hill game Afrika Korps. Now have a set of 24 random event cards for the game. I'll print and laminate later this evening.

Very nice! If you haven't already, you might want to post that on BGG. I'm sure fans of the game would appreciate it.

Natus wrote:
Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Worked finished a bit early today so I took a bit of time seeing what I might do creating some cards for wargames. Decided to try to make a random events mod for the old Avalon Hill game Afrika Korps. Now have a set of 24 random event cards for the game. I'll print and laminate later this evening.

Very nice! If you haven't already, you might want to post that on BGG. I'm sure fans of the game would appreciate it.

Thanks! I'm really happy with how they came out, all laminated on card stock they almost feel like real cards.

And yes, I'll make a short explanation sheet (maybe a video too) on how to use them and then upload to BGG.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/gnwO1BK.jpg)

Robear wrote:

Just picked up Hex of Steel, a one-person project WW2 grand strategy game that looks like a cross between Panzer Corps and the Grigsby games. Medium complexity, looks like. Nice to have these occasional oddities pop up on Steam. :-)

Looks really nice for a 1-man dev! Impressions?

PWAlessi wrote:
Robear wrote:

Just picked up Hex of Steel, a one-person project WW2 grand strategy game that looks like a cross between Panzer Corps and the Grigsby games. Medium complexity, looks like. Nice to have these occasional oddities pop up on Steam. :-)

Looks really nice for a 1-man dev! Impressions?

Wow, I haven't heard anything about this, but it gets solid reviews, and looks sharp.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Thanks! I'm really happy with how they came out, all laminated on card stock they almost feel like real cards.

That's pretty cool, GB! I guess moddability is an advantage board games have over video games, haha.

SpyNavy wrote:

But in all seriousness - this might be useful.

Thanks!

tboon wrote:

OOB is my preferred "smash counters together game and see what happens" game. This is something that I occasionally want in a "wargame" setting. I am not looking for strict historicity nor super-deep strategy from it. If I really want that, I have other games that do that better at the expense of simpler smash'em up gameplay.

I think you touched on an aspect that makes me prefer this over PC/PzG: the addition of meaningful logistics. Even those OOB is at its heart a puzzle game like all these sorts of games, this addition makes it feel less puzzley to me and more wargamey.

I also think the liberal turn count on most scenarios helps with that feeling too. I don't feel like I am playing a Rube Goldberg game where everything has to happen on an exact schedule like some WWI mobilization plan or I will not be successful. Strict turn count limits is one reason I don't like the Unity of Commands more. I just end up feeling dumb because I cannot capture the victory point in 9 turns - I have enough things in life that make me feel dumb, I would rather not have my games reinforce that feeling all the time. :)

Thanks tboon - you make a bunch of good points. I agree with you about turn count limits being a big factor that makes games puzzley (and I'd add scripted "gotcha!" events that require prophetic foresight, multiple playthroughs, or looking up a guide online).

I think you also make a good point about PzG-type games generally doing well at "smash the counters together" gameplay. Would you consider titles that aren't wargames or historically themed at all (e.g. Wargroove)?

Mind Elemental wrote:

Thanks tboon - you make a bunch of good points. I agree with you about turn count limits being a big factor that makes games puzzley (and I'd add scripted "gotcha!" events that require prophetic foresight, multiple playthroughs, or looking up a guide online).

Oh yes - nothing will make me rage-uninstall a game faster than that!

Mind Elemental wrote:

I think you also make a good point about PzG-type games generally doing well at "smash the counters together" gameplay. Would you consider titles that aren't wargames or historically themed at all (e.g. Wargroove)?

This is a good question and I have tried a couple of times to frame a cogent answer, without success - it is surprisingly complicated to answer. I guess the unsatisfying answer, for me, is "it depends". I won't discount a non-historical or military game out of hand. But sometimes I want to smash PzIVs against T-23s or Shermans.

PSA for board historical/wargame enthusiasts in the mix...

The Armchair Dragoons Digital Convention has opened registration for its June 18-20 digital conference. Badges are $5 for the whole event, and that lets you attend any session.

EDIT: Just looking over the events compared to the last one I went to, this one is at the moment anyway much lighter on sessions. So this might be a smaller event compared to the one I attended a couple weeks ago. Caveat emptor.

Armoured Commander II has been on Steam now for a year, and contains 44 campaigns and around 580 vehicles and units. For $9. Final release is scheduled for late summer this year.

If you have not jumped on the bandwagon, this is a good time. One of the best values in roguelikes AND wargames.

Oh yeah, Armoured Commander is great. It started out as an implementation of Patton's Best, so those were pretty good bones to build on, but now it's so much more. There are clearly some ASL genes in there as well.

Anyone tried Call to Arms, the successor to Men of War? I'd been vaguely aware of it and decided to pass when I saw that it was going through a super long early access period and had a weird DLC business model, but they just released an East Front module. So many great memories from Assault Squad back in the day being rekindled!

I'm interested in this too, if anyone has tried it.

Edit - And it's got me back into Graviteam lol. One thing to remember is that the sale starts in 10 days. However, release pricing on the new DLC probably won't last till then? So it's a balance... How much might you save on the base game knowing the DLC will be more when the sale rolls around?

Gunner wrote:

Anyone tried Call to Arms, the successor to Men of War? I'd been vaguely aware of it and decided to pass when I saw that it was going through a super long early access period and had a weird DLC business model, but they just released an East Front module. So many great memories from Assault Squad back in the day being rekindled!

Robear wrote:

I'm interested in this too, if anyone has tried it.

Edit - And it's got me back into Graviteam lol. One thing to remember is that the sale starts in 10 days. However, release pricing on the new DLC probably won't last till then? So it's a balance... How much might you save on the base game knowing the DLC will be more when the sale rolls around?

The Gates of Hell Ostfront mod is AMAZING. The actual CTA game is ok, but this mod is really well done. If you liked Men of War - you'll like this - if you didnt - well you wont.

An interesting book is on sale today at Amazon. It’s “Weapons of Choice: US Army Special Operations Forces in Afghanistan”, by Charles H Briscoe. It’s normally $20 for the Kindle version, but it’s on sale for $3. Don’t know for how long.

The book is a sanitized account of SOF operations in the 2001 Afghanistan war put out by the US Army for the purpose of acquainting Americans with the operations undertaken there, specifically from the viewpoints of soldiers ranked Major to Sergeant. It’s not a definitive history, and it’s not a document about doctrine or tactics or other military professional concerns. What makes it interesting is that it hangs the accounts on a timeline of the conflict, and includes a quite decent military history of Western and tribal operations in Afghanistan going back to about the 18th century. So it provides a decent history. From skimming, it does a good job of discussing how the units were initially directed and inserted into Afghanistan from their various training cycles, and the operations they undertook. Granted, it’s a biased view, but it is based on after action reports, logs, interviews, written accounts and more, with names changed unless the person’s activities have been publicized. So it’s a hybrid of “things soldiers can learn from stories and histories”, “things that SOF does and sort of how they do them”, and “things that American Special Forces do that are cool”.

Anyway, good background reading if you want to come up to speed on that aspect of the conflict. Considering the alternatives are generally even more slanted, it’s not a bad choice for background reading and getting insight on SOF operations and culture.

Robear wrote:

An interesting book is on sale today at Amazon. It’s “Weapons of Choice: US Army Special Operations Forces in Afghanistan”, by Charles H Briscoe. It’s normally $20 for the Kindle version, but it’s on sale for $3. Don’t know for how long.

I found the pdf for free at armyupress.army.mil

Nice!