[News] Post a Political News Story

Ongoing discussion of the political news of the day. This thread is for 'smaller' stories that don't call for their own thread. If a story blows up, please start a new thread for it.

Farscry wrote:

f*ck anyone who either wants to finish off our democracy, or anyone who doesn't care enough to try to save it.

No, remember, they "have different opinions on how to save democracy".

I think the plan is to wish on a rainbow that some exigent event occurs that causes the Republican Party to act completely differently than they do now. Something more severe than the Capitol being invaded and them being hunted down by paramilitary yahoos incited to rebellion by the previous President, I suppose.

So if something worse than that happens and then the Republican Party comes around... that's the event we're waiting for that in Joe Manchin's mind might convince Republicans to come around on voting rights.

I'm overflowing with hope, y'all.

They are just trying to revert our democracy to pre -1865.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

They are just trying to revert our democracy to pre -1865.

That’s what it’s always been about. Re-enshrining white supremacy as the law of the land in law and not just in practice.

What’s really going to rock is that when Manchin eventually loses his seat to some Q psychopath and Republicans in the Senate get rid of the filibuster so they can pass a federal version of these state voting laws along party lines.

I only hope Manchin lives long enough to see his beloved bipartisanship go up completely in flames.

DSGamer wrote:

What’s really going to rock is that when Manchin is eventually loses his seat to some Q psychopath and Republicans in the Senate get rid of the filibuster so they can pass a federal version of these state voting laws along party lines.

I only hope Manchin lives long enough to see his beloved bipartisanship go up completely in flames.

That's going to happen eventually even if we get HR-1 passed.

DSGamer wrote:

I only hope Manchin lives long enough to see his beloved bipartisanship go up completely in flames.

I mean... if the past ten years of Republican "governance" hasn't already disabused him of the fantasy that they're operating in any sense of good faith bipartisanship, I don't see how anything will.

If the House Q-caucus were to openly gun down several House progressives, and Senate Republicans blocked a commission to investigate, Manchin would still find an excuse to preserve the filibuster.

Mixolyde wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

What’s really going to rock is that when Manchin is eventually loses his seat to some Q psychopath and Republicans in the Senate get rid of the filibuster so they can pass a federal version of these state voting laws along party lines.

I only hope Manchin lives long enough to see his beloved bipartisanship go up completely in flames.

That's going to happen eventually even if we get HR-1 passed.

Well, at least if HR-1 passed there would be a shot at a Senate and House representative enough of the will of the voters to prevent that.

The Secret IRS Files: Trove of Never-Before-Seen Records Reveal How the Wealthiest Avoid Income Tax

ProPublica wrote:

ProPublica has obtained a vast cache of IRS information showing how billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk and Warren Buffett pay little in income tax compared to their massive wealth — sometimes, even nothing.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ET-_GddUMAApO2I.jpg)

I am sure this time the consequences will be much larger than the fallout from the Panama Papers.

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

JC wrote:

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

Sure. But in the same breath, when was the last time you intentionally paid more taxes than Turbo Tax told you to? Surely the only difference for the ultra rich is that they have a team of accountants instead of Turbo Tax?

Jonman wrote:
JC wrote:

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

Sure. But in the same breath, when was the last time you intentionally paid more taxes than Turbo Tax told you to? Surely the only difference for the ultra rich is that they have a team of accountants instead of Turbo Tax?

Isn’t that the problem though? If these loop holes didn’t exist, then the wealthy wouldn’t be able to take advantage of them.

If Jeff Bezos goes into TurboTax and simply says, I made 546 million dollars last year, and claims a mortgage on his super yacht and home(s). He is still going to have a ton of taxes to pay.

Tax laws written by the wealthy, to reward the wealthy, are (and have been) a problem for quite some time. And of course just like everything else, the rich politicians have no desire to change the rules that benefit them to create a more fair and level playing field for all.

I would perhaps argue that to keep the rich from paying taxes is the fire that kindled this country into being.

Nevin73 wrote:

I would perhaps argue that to keep the rich from paying taxes is the fire that kindled this country into being.

And things have changed since then, as has our tax code, but not enough to even remotely balance the playing field. And that isn't going to change because it's benefiting the people in power.

Don't go scratching under the feel good righteous revolution story we sell in this country....

I believe George Orwell wrote something about the Low, the Middle, and the High that's apropos here.

Jonman wrote:

JC wrote:

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

Sure. But in the same breath, when was the last time you intentionally paid more taxes than Turbo Tax told you to? Surely the only difference for the ultra rich is that they have a team of accountants instead of Turbo Tax?

No. The difference for the ultra rich is that they have access to tools that we cannot afford, which allow them to pay no tax at all on billions. Why should I pay more taxes than some billionaire? It's not that I should contribute more than I am required to; it's that they are finding ways to avoid one of the costs of citizenship. They get the benefits, far far far more than any of us, and yet pay nothing for those privileges, and more.

We should hit Jeff Bezos and his buddies for 36% or more of what they have earned in the past, and hold a lottery to select millions whose taxes would be paid by the proceeds. That would literally pump tens of billions into the economy, directly, and without actually sending a dollar to anyone...

Does anyone believe that Amazon would be at all hurt if Bezos was only worth $100 million? We'd all be better off with his wealth actually circulating.

Jonman wrote:
JC wrote:

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

Sure. But in the same breath, when was the last time you intentionally paid more taxes than Turbo Tax told you to? Surely the only difference for the ultra rich is that they have a team of accountants instead of Turbo Tax?

Couldn't disagree more.

I am fine paying taxes. I am absolutely sure I've failed to maximize every last f*cking penny that goes to the government. And that's ok.

Taxes for the ultra wealthy could totally happen but they wake up in the morning and say, "Schools? Roads? A fairer shot for those beneath me in the ant colony of humanity? All if I just contributed from my Scrooge McDuck tower of dollars to the collective good? Pfft. I'd be happier with the dollar. After all, I'm a selfish ant who deserves my place at the top of the ant hill and there is no other ant here with a gun pointed at my ant head forcing me to contribute...so I shan't be doing that."

They could treat it like tipping. But they don't. I wonder why that is.

Jonman wrote:
JC wrote:

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

Sure. But in the same breath, when was the last time you intentionally paid more taxes than Turbo Tax told you to? Surely the only difference for the ultra rich is that they have a team of accountants instead of Turbo Tax?

But there are differences because the wealthy have worked very hard to skew tax laws so much of what they make is not taxed or taxed at lower rates. A person working full time at minimum wage doesn't have access to differed retirement accounts, property depreciation, investment write offs, etc. that the ultra wealthy do

So if the system is rigged so they pay less it isn't of much value to say "well we all play by the same system" Yes but the system is rigged.

Yeah. "Why would you pay taxes if you could avoid them?" is not a valid answer to "Exactly how do you contribute to society, Mr. Bezos?"

I contribute to society. You contribute to society. F*cking billionaires can give us more than zero dollars.

farley3k wrote:
Jonman wrote:
JC wrote:

It always amazes and depresses me that the people that can afford to pay are the ones that don’t.

Sure. But in the same breath, when was the last time you intentionally paid more taxes than Turbo Tax told you to? Surely the only difference for the ultra rich is that they have a team of accountants instead of Turbo Tax?

But there are differences because the wealthy have worked very hard to skew tax laws so much of what they make is not taxed or taxed at lower rates. A person working full time at minimum wage doesn't have access to differed retirement accounts, property depreciation, investment write offs, etc. that the ultra wealthy do

So if the system is rigged so they pay less it isn't of much value to say "well we all play by the same system" Yes but the system is rigged.

Precisely.

Taxes for thee...and none for me.

farley3k wrote:

But there are differences because the wealthy have worked very hard to skew tax laws so much of what they make is not taxed or taxed at lower rates. A person working full time at minimum wage doesn't have access to differed retirement accounts, property depreciation, investment write offs, etc. that the ultra wealthy do

So the rich really did work hard for their wealth!

Robear wrote:

Yeah. "Why would you pay taxes if you could avoid them?" is not a valid answer to "Exactly how do you contribute to society, Mr. Bezos?"

I contribute to society. You contribute to society. F*cking billionaires can give us more than zero dollars.

No, but it's a very valid answer to "why don't you pay more taxes, Mr Bezos?"

Look, I just find it hard to get riled up AT billionaires for dutifully following the tax code. Definitely get pissed at your legislators that set that tax code, that's entirely fair, and a better use of your time anyway.

Jonman wrote:
Robear wrote:

Yeah. "Why would you pay taxes if you could avoid them?" is not a valid answer to "Exactly how do you contribute to society, Mr. Bezos?"

I contribute to society. You contribute to society. F*cking billionaires can give us more than zero dollars.

No, but it's a very valid answer to "why don't you pay more taxes, Mr Bezos?"

Look, I just find it hard to get riled up AT billionaires for dutifully following the tax code. Definitely get pissed at your legislators that set that tax code, that's entirely fair, and a better use of your time anyway.

But those legislators didn't write the legislation that created a tax code filled with loopholes and exemptions that benefit billionaires.

The billionaires created non-profit think tanks and special interest groups and had them draft "sample legislation" that they gave to the legislator to sponsor along with some nice, completely untraceable dark money campaign contributions.

OG_slinger wrote:
Jonman wrote:
Robear wrote:

Yeah. "Why would you pay taxes if you could avoid them?" is not a valid answer to "Exactly how do you contribute to society, Mr. Bezos?"

I contribute to society. You contribute to society. F*cking billionaires can give us more than zero dollars.

No, but it's a very valid answer to "why don't you pay more taxes, Mr Bezos?"

Look, I just find it hard to get riled up AT billionaires for dutifully following the tax code. Definitely get pissed at your legislators that set that tax code, that's entirely fair, and a better use of your time anyway.

But those legislators didn't write the legislation that created a tax code filled with loopholes and exemptions that benefit billionaires.

The billionaires created non-profit think tanks and special interest groups and had them draft "sample legislation" that they gave to the legislator to sponsor along with some nice, completely untraceable dark money campaign contributions.

No one has really gone out of their way to fix it either. So the legislature is still at fault. Be angry at billionaires for not fixing the world and being greedy assholes but be mad at the folks in charge for merely making it hella easy to pay virtually nothing when you're stinking rich.

OG_slinger wrote:

But those legislators didn't write the legislation that created a tax code filled with loopholes and exemptions that benefit billionaires.

The billionaires created non-profit think tanks and special interest groups and had them draft "sample legislation" that they gave to the legislator to sponsor along with some nice, completely untraceable dark money campaign contributions.

Pointing out how the sausage is made doesn't absolve the sausage-makers from responsibility for the guts on the floor.

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Hobear wrote:

No one has really gone out of their way to fix it either. So the legislature is still at fault. Be angry at billionaires for not fixing the world and being greedy assholes but be mad at the folks in charge for merely making it hella easy to pay virtually nothing when you're stinking rich.

Tax reform is an inherently boring, unsexy, and massively complex policy that voters don't really care about outside of "I think I should pay less and someone else should pay more."

And any talk of tax reform--especially increasing the taxes on rich people--gets instantly overtaken by people making several hundred thousand dollars a year and living in expensive cities claiming that they're really middle class--which there's no official government definition of--and saying they shouldn't be "punished" with higher taxes.

Billionaires are perfectly happy having those unwitting fools die on the front lines of that policy battle because it keeps the attention away from them.

I mean look at something like the estate tax. It literally only impacts about 1 in 500 estates and yet rich people where able to successfully get it rebranded into the "death tax" and convince a bunch of dumb motherf*ckers who maybe have a suburban house and a couple thousand in a 401(k) that the big bad government could steal it all when they died.

I'm reminded of the Planet Money podcast after the Great Recession where they had reporters follow the subsequent financial reform laws. Those reporters showed up at all the public meetings where rules and regulations where discussed and decided with various government agencies and they quickly realized that 1) only people representing the rich and corporations even knew about those meetings let alone showed up, 2) those hired guns knew more about the ins and outs of the system than the regulatory bodies themselves, and 3) the hired guns were the ones shaping the laws and rules and were doing so in ways that benefited the people who signed their paychecks.

Jonman wrote:

Pointing out how the sausage is made doesn't absolve the sausage-makers from responsibility for the guts on the floor.

I'm not absolving legislators of anything. I was just pointing out that billionaires have access to resources that are unimaginable to us plebs and can use them to literally shape the political discourse in a way that benefits them.

Every billionaire has a choice:

Contribute to the common good via the tax structure or not.

That so many (all?) put so much time, energy and dollars into making sure they won't contribute to the rest of Team Society so that they can have a third f*cking yacht is disgusting.

Of course it's not surprising that the most greedy, selfish people, who will do what it takes (and have enough breaks go their way) to unlock the Billionaire achievement in late stage capitalism will do the Scrooge McDuck thing.

That doesn't make it right.

But why are we even talking about this? We're just lowly ants living on the billionaire's planet.

Here’s the deal. As above - the billionaires are the ones creating and maintaining the loopholes - as well as the millionaires, the major corporations and others with an interest. So it’s perfectly valid to be angry at them. They are not innocents just noticing a loophole they can get through that is too high for others to reach; they are the ones who blew that hole in the structure of citizen responsibilities in the first place.

They created the problem. Let them pay to fix it.