[Discussion] Impeachment, Legacy, and Discussion of Individual 45

Though noted as discussion, news, debate, and all things related to events that occurred during the Tr*mp administration can go here. The scope of this thread is specific to the former administration and it's hangers-on in the aftermath of the shift in power for the United States and impacted areas worldwide.

Rat Boy wrote:

What's within walking distance of the rally his followers can try to storm?

It's in Greenville, NC so umm, not much.

They're doing a great job showing diversity in their guest list too.

Spoiler:

23 "guests" Composed of: 4 women, 1 Black Man, 18 white men (surprisingly, only 1 bow tie)

I mean his followers are still bananas over him. Some moron from my church can't let his ballot battle go on FB. He has been questioning it since Nov. We are a left leaning church, like hard core. And he's still banging his drum. Like all the things he cares about in person are opposite of what he politically supports. He helps feed the needy, with our poverty work, and more. But support the side that generally aligns with us he is against.

Hobear wrote:

I mean his followers are still bananas over him. Some moron from my church can't let his ballot battle go on FB. He has been questioning it since Nov. We are a left leaning church, like hard core. And he's still banging his drum. Like all the things he cares about in person are opposite of what he politically supports. He helps feed the needy, with our poverty work, and more. But support the side that generally aligns with us he is against.

I think this synchs up pretty well with conservatives generally supporting progressive initiatives until they're enacted by a Democrat.

ruhk wrote:
Natus wrote:

The calls for coups and insurrections will get louder and more overt, and as usual, not much will be done.

This isn’t the first time Flynn has said something like that, what I think is really dangerous is that Haberman from NYT is reporting that Trump himself is convinced that he’ll be back in office by August. It was one thing when he was just grifting his flock, but if he’s getting pilled as well…

He's already pilled...

Maggie Haberman Is Right

National Review wrote:

Two days ago, the New York Times’s Maggie Haberman reported that Donald Trump “has been telling a number of people he’s in contact with that he expects he will get reinstated by August.” In response, many figures on the right inserted their fingers into their ears and started screaming about fake news.

Instead, they should have listened — because Haberman’s reporting was correct. I can attest, from speaking to an array of different sources, that Donald Trump does indeed believe quite genuinely that he — along with former senators David Perdue and Martha McSally — will be “reinstated” to office this summer after “audits” of the 2020 elections in Arizona, Georgia, and a handful of other states have been completed. I can attest, too, that Trump is trying hard to recruit journalists, politicians, and other influential figures to promulgate this belief — not as a fundraising tool or an infantile bit of trolling or a trial balloon, but as a fact.

...

The scale of Trump’s delusion is quite startling. This is not merely an eccentric interpretation of the facts or an interesting foible, nor is it an irrelevant example of anguished post-presidency chatter. It is a rejection of reality, a rejection of law, and, ultimately, a rejection of the entire system of American government. There is no Reinstatement Clause within the United States Constitution. Hell, there is nothing even approximating a Reinstatement Clause within the United States Constitution. The election has been certified, Joe Biden is the president, and, until 2024, that is all there is to it.

ruhk wrote:

I think that’s wishful thinking, but we’ll see soon enough.

Is it though? I’m torn. If the GOP showed a true willingness to move on from Trumpism, I’d be happy to see him go away. But part of me suspects that Trump 2024 is the best way to ensure Republicans stay out of power, especially if it’s Harris running and not Biden again. If Trump fades away I fear we wind up with President Pence, or Haley, or DeSantis.

gewy wrote:
ruhk wrote:

I think that’s wishful thinking, but we’ll see soon enough.

Is it though? I’m torn. If the GOP showed a true willingness to move on from Trumpism, I’d be happy to see him go away. But part of me suspects that Trump 2024 is the best way to ensure Republicans stay out of power, especially if it’s Harris running and not Biden again. If Trump fades away I fear we wind up with President Pence, or Haley, or DeSantis.

If HR-1 isn't passed, 2024 will go to a cheese sandwich if it has an (R) after its name.

The Clock is Ticking

One of the striking features of American politics at the moment is that the Republican party is absolutely clear about two things: that Democratic electoral victories are per se illegitimate, and that no meaningful negotiation or compromise will happen — yet plenty of Democrats simply refuse to believe this, even though they are being told it explicitly, over and over again.

The only meaningful argument in the GOP right now is whether the Democratic party should be disqualified from winning political power by technically legal voter suppression, gerrymandering, and the massively biased structure of the Senate and the Electoral College, or whether some or a lot of extra-legal violence should be thrown into the mix, if necessary:

Some thoughts of hope:

1) moving forward, Covid-19 will hopefully be contained to trump supporters and the immunocompromised. Sucks for those with legitimate medical reasons prohibiting them from taking the vaccine, but hopefully this will thin the ranks of fascist voters
2) Sometimes, voter suppression laws can backfire.
3) Even with the hardcore voter suppression tactics employed in many Republican states, it will be tough to score even illegitimate wins with the current GOP civil war between Trump's Reinstatement Party and Pence's Coward Party.
4) It's been 6 months. Manchin will cave. Invertebrates always do.

Seth wrote:

Some thoughts of hope:

1) moving forward, Covid-19 will hopefully be contained to trump supporters and the immunocompromised. Sucks for those with legitimate medical reasons prohibiting them from taking the vaccine, but hopefully this will thin the ranks of fascist voters

Seeing as how there are a few people on this board that are immunocompromised, and millions more in the US (about 60 million) this is a pretty gross statement. Covid does not discriminate who it infects and/or kills it's not a tool to "thin the ranks."

Yup agree.

gewy wrote:
ruhk wrote:

I think that’s wishful thinking, but we’ll see soon enough.

Is it though? I’m torn. If the GOP showed a true willingness to move on from Trumpism, I’d be happy to see him go away. But part of me suspects that Trump 2024 is the best way to ensure Republicans stay out of power, especially if it’s Harris running and not Biden again. If Trump fades away I fear we wind up with President Pence, or Haley, or DeSantis.

Don’t let the closure of his blog due to lack of traffic lull you into thinking his followers have abandoned him- they haven’t. His blog was unpopular because it was a blog and wasn’t easily shareable, twitter was banning links to it, for instance. The content of the blog was still popular, it was just being filtered through influencers and shared via screen grabs on the half-dozen or so social media sites and chat networks that a lot of conservatives have flocked to in the last 6 months. I haven’t visited his website at all, yet have still seen many of his boring and rambling posts this way. Luckily Trump either doesn’t seem to be aware of it or just doesn’t care because it’s not generating revenue, and shut it down.

Remember back in 2016 when no one thought Trump could win and was treating it like a joke that he even made it to the general election?

Don’t let 2024 be a repeat of that.

ruhk wrote:

If the GOP showed a true willingness to move on from Trumpism, I’d be happy to see him go away. But part of me suspects that Trump 2024 is the best way to ensure Republicans stay out of power, especially if it’s Harris running and not Biden again. If Trump fades away I fear we wind up with President Pence, or Haley, or DeSantis.

I'm pretty sure Pence's political career is over. He spent four years enabling Trump, which made the Never Trumpers furious, then at the end certified the election results, which to Trump's followers was the ultimate betrayal. He's completely pissed off both sides at this point.

DeSantis is certainly a likely candidate. I could also see Cruz running again, or Graham. I have a feeling even if Trump fades away we'd still end up with someone like Marjorie Taylor Greene, though. Just completely out of right field batsh*t crazy.

Ya quoted the wrong person there, I don’t personally believe Trump will fade away. I think we’re basically stuck with him until he dies, and likely long after. Marjorie Taylor Green is the future of the GOP, there are already a distressingly large number of Qcumbers launching campaigns for the Legislative Branch.

Edit: oops, wrong thread

It will be either a bimbo woman R who they love to vote for spouting trump crap and someone who gives them boners or crusty old white guy spouting Trump or Trump Jr if he can stay off the coke long enough to make a stable speech.

Hobear wrote:

or Trump Jr if he can stay off the coke long enough to make a stable speech.

That didn't hold back his father.

FB banned Trump through at least January 7th, 2023.

Seth wrote:

Some thoughts of hope:

1) moving forward, Covid-19 will hopefully be contained to trump supporters and the immunocompromised. Sucks for those with legitimate medical reasons prohibiting them from taking the vaccine, but hopefully this will thin the ranks of fascist voters

What JC said. While I will mourn Trumpists and their allies not at all, the virus pinging back and forth between populations also gives the opportunity for vaccine-resistant strains to arise, which is just one of the reasons what is going on in India is so horrific.

But most of the time they do exactly what they were passed to do.

Seth wrote:

3) Even with the hardcore voter suppression tactics employed in many Republican states, it will be tough to score even illegitimate wins with the current GOP civil war between Trump's Reinstatement Party and Pence's Coward Party.

There won't be a GOP civil war. We all want it, but it won't happen. The arch-Trumpist battalion will batter and bully the others so badly that the others will meekly fall in line like Cruz, Paul, and Rubio did. Maybe we'll get some defectors, but I really doubt it at this point.

Seth wrote:

4) It's been 6 months. Manchin will cave. Invertebrates always do.

Again, that's conjecture and again, it's what we want to happen.

Natus wrote:

There won't be a GOP civil war. We all want it, but it won't happen. The arch-Trumpist battalion will batter and bully the others so badly that the others will meekly fall in line like Cruz, Paul, and Rubio did. Maybe we'll get some defectors, but I really doubt it at this point.

I think the really interesting bit is going to be how much Trump's fundraising machine supplants the GOP's fundraising machine.

There were already signs from hardcore Trumpers that they weren't going to give the GOP another dime because they didn't go to the mat over the Big Lie. If all that money--and more--pores into a Trump PAC instead of the RNC then there's going to be a lot of Republican politicians who aren't going to like the fact they have to tongue an orange ass to get any financial support.

And the campaign professionals who understand how to win races are going to have their 2022 and 2024 strategies randomly f*cked up by Trump's mercurial nature when he cuts off their donations because they didn't grovel sufficiently on the Sunday political talk shows or got quoted saying something he didn't like.

Not to mention that Trump has a history of considering his campaign finances his personal money. Considering there's already been stories about how he's been complaining about all the legal fees he's facing--and how they'll continue to grow--he's not going to suddenly become generous with money he thinks people gave him and him alone.

Best thing that can happen to the GOP is for Trump to drop dead sooner rather than later.

Jonman wrote:

Best thing that can happen to the GOP is for Trump to drop dead sooner rather than later.

To the GOP...and the world.

Then we'll hear all the cries from his acolytes: "I'm Trump 2.0!" "No, I'm Trump 2.0!" "Half a million people died on my watch...beat that!"

Natus wrote:
Seth wrote:

Some thoughts of hope:

1) moving forward, Covid-19 will hopefully be contained to trump supporters and the immunocompromised. Sucks for those with legitimate medical reasons prohibiting them from taking the vaccine, but hopefully this will thin the ranks of fascist voters

What JC said. While I will mourn Trumpists and their allies not at all, the virus pinging back and forth between populations also gives the opportunity for vaccine-resistant strains to arise, which is just one of the reasons what is going on in India is so horrific.

I'm glad that the consensus of this community seems to be "hoping the virus kills off more insurrectionists than democrats" is a pretty horrible best case scenario. It shows the fundamental difference in morality between the left and the right -- Trump and Stephen Miller both intentionally downplayed the threat of the virus because, at the time, it was only ravaging predominately black and brown communities in traditionally Democrat leaning cities.

And while "civil war" is probably not the best analogy to use to describe the tension among the GOP, I don't think it's nothing. I have no love for the nation's largest bank, for example, but I do like that they're no longer donating to political candidates who subscribe to the Big Lie.

Seth wrote:
Natus wrote:
Seth wrote:

Some thoughts of hope:

1) moving forward, Covid-19 will hopefully be contained to trump supporters and the immunocompromised. Sucks for those with legitimate medical reasons prohibiting them from taking the vaccine, but hopefully this will thin the ranks of fascist voters

What JC said. While I will mourn Trumpists and their allies not at all, the virus pinging back and forth between populations also gives the opportunity for vaccine-resistant strains to arise, which is just one of the reasons what is going on in India is so horrific.

I'm glad that the consensus of this community seems to be "hoping the virus kills off more insurrectionists than democrats" is a pretty horrible best case scenario. It shows the fundamental difference in morality between the left and the right -- Trump and Stephen Miller both intentionally downplayed the threat of the virus because, at the time, it was only ravaging predominately black and brown communities in traditionally Democrat leaning cities.

It's even worse than that, actually. The Trumpists wanted the middle class and the poor to work--and die--through the pandemic so the economy didn't suffer. That's what all the re-opening talk was about: get the expendable population, including many of his own supporters, whom he sickened, to keep things going until vaccines were widely available. Apparently there's a word for that: democide.

Seth wrote:

And while "civil war" is probably not the best analogy to use to describe the tension among the GOP, I don't think it's nothing. I have no love for the nation's largest bank, for example, but I do like that they're no longer donating to political candidates who subscribe to the Big Lie.

That's good to know. I'd heard that many corporations were creeping back to donating to the insurrectionists. But, other than Cheney, I don't see who in the GOP stands against the loudest, most brazen Trumpist, who may be Trump himself. The Bushes sure aren't going to.

Natus wrote:

Maybe we'll get some defectors, but I really doubt it at this point.

To me it is absolutely bonkers that precisely ZERO high-profile Republicans have switched caucus since January 6th. Collins and Murkowski have just been re-elected for six whole years, and could probably get all kinds of concessions for their state from the Dems, but still they seem to believe the GOP is worth saving more than US democracy itself.

And those are just the 2 most extreme examples of Republicans with plenty job security and potential political leverage, when morally dozens of congress critters should be flipping to save the country from fascism.

Manchin has job security. You really think that Manchin would lose support in WV for passing infrastructure through reconciliation? The infrastructure bill, in the very least would be a huge boost to WV by expanding broadband across the state. He could easily sell it on that.

Manchin could also sell the voting rights bill to WV by promoting the church voting components. I can't help but think he is a coward. The bills are chalk full of stuff very popular with people in his state. He is barking up a non existent tree just because he fears his constituents would "ZOMG the Democrats!" He really has the power to do something about that.

and could probably get all kinds of concessions for their state from the Dems

I don't understand why this isn't promoted more? Why do the likes of Romney, Sasse and more bow to McConnell when their states would get many extremely popular things.

I mean seriously, what part of what state wouldn't love road repairs and broad band?
Why does Romney bow to McConnell or hold power over him or further his or Trump's messaging on anything?

I guess that is what the GOP is good at: ceding power to idiots with a rigid agenda.

fangblackbone wrote:

The bills are chalk full of stuff very popular with people in his state.

The "Sheets is better than Wawa" resolution was particularly popular.

fangblackbone wrote:
...and could probably get all kinds of concessions for their state from the Dems.

I don't understand why this isn't promoted more? Why do the likes of Romney, Sasse and more bow to McConnell when their states would get many extremely popular things?

Because those things could also potentially help non-white people, and passing anything that could potentially help non-white people means you automatically lose a primary challenge.

H.P. Lovesauce wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

The bills are chalk full of stuff very popular with people in his state.

The "Sheets is better than Wawa" resolution was particularly popular.

Them’s fightin words in my neck of the woods.

If that’s what it takes to get the bill passed though I’m all for it.

Keldar wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:
...and could probably get all kinds of concessions for their state from the Dems.

I don't understand why this isn't promoted more? Why do the likes of Romney, Sasse and more bow to McConnell when their states would get many extremely popular things?

Because those things could also potentially help non-white people, and passing anything that could potentially help non-white people means you automatically lose a primary challenge.

Infrastructure/healthcare/public education = helping non-white people, which is why Republicans hate them.

Dejanzie, there is one issue that prevents “moderates” like Collins and Murkowski from jumping parties.

Abortion.