NFL 2021: The preseasoning

Vector wrote:
Top_Shelf wrote:

Which college coaches were successful in the NFL?

Jimmy won two Super Bowls.
Pete Carroll won one.

Who else had a successful career?

I think Jim Harbough would have been as successful as his brother if he didn't get screwed by Baalke and that experience left him with such a distaste for the NFL he's probably never coming back.

Really?

I feel like he's Classic College Coach, just a bit younger. Screamer. My Way/High Way. That doesn't play with grown ass men and it doesn't look to be playing at Michigan with this generation either.

Had a dream I snagged nosebleed Super Bowl tickets for $60 a pop and planned on selling them for a lot more.

Oh well.

garion333 wrote:

Had a dream I snagged nosebleed Super Bowl tickets for $60 a pop and planned on selling them for a lot more.

Oh well.

Why would you sell and miss Lance vs. Lawrence II?

Speaking of the Jaguars and being a clown car organization:

In one of their YouTube hype videos, they forgot to blur out a few of their draft grades.

The grades we can see (scale goes to 8.0) and their draft position:

* Trevor Lawrence - 8.0 (1.1 - Jaguars)
* Jaylen Waddle - 8.0 (1.6 - Dolphins)
* Caleb Farley - 7.5 (1.22 - Titans)
* Alijah Vera-Tucker - 7.5 (1.14 - Jets)
* Travis Etienne - 7.0 (1.25 - Jaguars)
* Zach Wilson - 7.0 (1.2 - Jets)
* Andre Cisco - 6.9 (3.1 - Jaguars)
* Elijah Moore - 6.9 (2.1 - Jets)
* Kwity Paye - 6.8 (1.21 - Colts)
* Jevon Holland - 6.8 (2.4 - Dolphins)
* Liam Eichenberg - 6.8 (2.10 - Dolphins)
* Jay Tufele - 6.4 (4.1 - Jaguars)

At least Baalke and I agree on a couple of things - Kwity Paye being way overrated, and Zach Wilson not being a legitimate contender to Lawrence's top spot like some people have tried to sell.

Interesting to see they were as high on Vera-Tucker as the Jets.

Top_Shelf wrote:

Which college coaches were successful in the NFL?

Jimmy won two Super Bowls.
Pete Carroll won one.

Who else had a successful career?

Marv Levy and Bill Walsh?

Bill Walsh was an NFL coach who was briefly a college head coach. Granted, he was an assistant coach at the college level before he started coaching at the NFL level, but when it comes to this question, I think we're mostly talking about college head coaches transitioning to NFL head coaches, and that college head coaching experience being their most significant years of coaching. Walsh's most substantial coaching before becoming an NFL head coach was being an NFL offensive coordinator.

Marv, you have a better argument with. He was a college head coach for 10 years before elevating to the professional level. He too has a bit of a less direct transition though, first spending a few years as an NFL special teams coach, and then spending years as a CFL head coach. Still, that decade of college head coaching was a big part of his resume, whereas college head coaching was a pit stop for Walsh.

Yeah, per Wikipedia, he was HC at New Mexico, Cal and William & Mary from 1958-68. Not exactly Bo Schembechler, Gene Stallings or Tom Osborne.

There's really been a shift in recent years to a semi-deification of college coaches, and the media storm around prominent ones I'd say really increases both their ego and the power to do things with that ego. While I have no doubt Bear Bryant was a domineering dick to his players back when, there wasn't quite the media focus of A GOD AM I that surrounds guys like Saban or Urban Meyer. The presence of a high-profile coach means a lot more dollars are funneled to the school, and that lets those coaches run programs however they want.

Walsh and Marv, well, that's a very different era of what "college coach" really meant.

Barry Switzer: one of three football coaches to win a national championship and a Super Bowl.

:trollface:

Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl the same way Trump became a millionaire.

Julio Jones - possibly without realizing he was on live TV - told Shannon Sharpe on the phone that "I'm outta there" in reference to the potential of returning to Atlanta.

The price for Jones is estimated to be a 2nd round pick, after there were no takers back on draft weekend when the price was a 1st. There's only about 10-12 teams who could squeeze him under the cap, one being the Patriots team we already know he wants to go to.

The odds look something like this:

Baltimore Ravens +275
San Francisco 49ers +300
New England Patriots +450
Los Angeles Chargers +600
Tennessee Titans +600
Indianapolis Colts +700
Green Bay Packers +900

I'm not buying the first two on the list. Baltimore is tight up against the cap, and San Francisco isn't likely looking to dump any more trade capital after the Lance deal. Also, both teams invested high picks in their two starting WRs, and neither team uses 3 WRs much. You're talking the two teams with the highest FB snap counts (with Minnesota close behind), and neither team is taking their TE off the field to go 3-wide, San Francisco especially. Investing in Julio doesn't make sense for such ground-focused teams that already have some young ascending talent at the WR spots (though we haven't seen Bateman play yet).

New England is where the realistic options start. I think the Patriots, Titans, and Colts are likely the 3 big players in this market. The Chargers already have WRs as their 2nd and 3rd highest cap hits this year. And Green Bay is at the ass end of the salary cap space list, and while that can change if they move Rodgers after June 1, I don't see them trading for Julio if the Jordan Love rebuild era is beginning.

*Legion* wrote:

Julio Jones - possibly without realizing he was on live TV - told Shannon Sharpe on the phone that "I'm outta there" in reference to the potential of returning to Atlanta.

The suggestions for how Shannon Sharpe can use this new superpower are coming in.

Gods I hope the Ravens don't make the rumors true and go after Julio Jones.

Julio is not going to make the Ravens a top rated passing attack and, honestly, the Ravens don't need him to. If the Ravens can improve their passing attack to the 18th ranked, they make the Superbowl. They don't need a top five passing attack. They just need to punish teams for playing zone on every play.

Aaron Rodgers has stayed away from Packers OTAs (and given up his $500k workout bonus as a result), so Jordan Love is getting his first work at QB1.

More fun Packers stuff: supposedly, the Packers wanted to draft Rashod Bateman, but the Ravens beat them to the punch by 2 picks.

That's two years in a row where that happened, as they wanted Justin Jefferson or Brandon Aiyuk in the 2020 draft, only for Minnesota and San Francisco to snipe both players not long before Green Bay's pick.

*Legion* wrote:

More fun Packers stuff: supposedly, the Packers wanted to draft Rashod Bateman, but the Ravens beat them to the punch by 2 picks.

Thank god. There are quite a few weirdos that are, somehow, Gopher and Packers fans. Don't want to encourage them.

*Legion* wrote:

Aaron Rodgers has stayed away from Packers OTAs (and given up his $500k workout bonus as a result), so Jordan Love is getting his first work at QB1.

More fun Packers stuff: supposedly, the Packers wanted to draft Rashod Bateman, but the Ravens beat them to the punch by 2 picks.

That's two years in a row where that happened, as they wanted Justin Jefferson or Brandon Aiyuk in the 2020 draft, only for Minnesota and San Francisco to snipe both players not long before Green Bay's pick.

Really stinks having a HoF QB consistently get you crappy draft positions.

If only there was a mechanism by which you could move up in the draft.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

If only there was a mechanism by which you could move up in the draft.

San Francisco was down at #31 and traded up past Green Bay for Aiyuk.

Minnesota didn't originally have the Justin Jefferson pick either, they got that from Buffalo in the Diggs trade.

There were certainly options in this year's draft to move up. Las Vegas was desperately trying to trade down before taking Alex Leatherwood, but they couldn't get any buyers. They were locked in on Leatherwood but they knew he would still be on the board later if they could move down.

*Legion* wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:

If only there was a mechanism by which you could move up in the draft.

San Francisco was down at #31 and traded up past Green Bay for Aiyuk.

Minnesota didn't originally have the Justin Jefferson pick either, they got that from Buffalo in the Diggs trade.

There were certainly options in this year's draft to move up. Las Vegas was desperately trying to trade down before taking Alex Leatherwood, but they couldn't get any buyers. They were locked in on Leatherwood but they knew he would still be on the board later if they could move down.

Why are they always locked in on people?

garion333 wrote:

Why are they always locked in on people?

Well we've talked about that before, haven't we? Jon Gruden has watched one recent college football game, the 2019 national championship, and has based all of his draft evaluations off of that one game.

Here, I made a little reference guide:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/cfDlWNT.png)

I'm sure the only thing stopping this chart from having a bunch more Raider logos is not having enough early picks to get them all.

iaintgotnopants wrote:

If only there was a mechanism by which you could move up in the draft.

Ya! To get Jordan Love!

I'm still actually not convinced that drafting a WR would magically solve the Packers problems.

I actually think it's just an easy story for the talking heads to cycle through over and over again.

I'm very pro investing in defense, just maybe not the players they have been taking.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Why are they always locked in on people?

Well we've talked about that before, haven't we? Jon Gruden has watched one recent college football game, the 2019 national championship, and has based all of his draft evaluations off of that one game.

Here, I made a little reference guide:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/cfDlWNT.png)

I'm sure the only thing stopping this chart from having a bunch more Raider logos is not having enough early picks to get them all.

But, why Mayock too? Is he really that weak in the power structure? It's crazy to me.

garion333 wrote:

But, why Mayock too? Is he really that weak in the power structure?

That's my guess. Let's face it, he's a guy with no front office experience. He was picked for the job to do the parts Gruden doesn't want to do, and yield to him where Gruden does care.

Mayock I imagine gets to pick the day 3 guys from Western Kentucky, after Gruden gets bored and goes home.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

But, why Mayock too? Is he really that weak in the power structure?

That's my guess. Let's face it, he's a guy with no front office experience. He was picked for the job to do the parts Gruden doesn't want to do, and yield to him where Gruden does care.

Mayock I imagine gets to pick the day 3 guys from Western Kentucky, after Gruden gets bored and goes home.

It's so sad it's probably true. And that's a real shame.

Course Mayock wasn't exactly perfect, but he was entertaining and insightful.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/EEOLM1f.jpg)

Those odds don't pay nearly well enough. But I like this bettor's pro-Rosen attitude.

To be in a financial situation where I could do something SO INSANELY STUPID over so many other ways to spend that kind of money in ten seconds.

Every single bet has a probability. That bet though is definitely not 33:1 of value.

I could understand it pre draft. Odds of Jimmy getting hurt again are definitely better than 33-1

I'm just glad Josh's parents have that kinda money to spare.

Stele wrote:

I could understand it pre draft. Odds of Jimmy getting hurt again are definitely better than 33-1

Sure, Jimmy getting hurt isn't a remote chance, but Rosen getting past Lance?

And even if THAT happened, Rosen isn't guaranteed to beat out Nate Sudfeld and Josh Johnson for the QB3 spot.

And even if THAT happened, if the Niners top two QBs are suddenly out of commission, they're going to hit up free agency or the trade market. Re-sign Nick Mullens? Trade for Gardner Minshew? Lot of possibilities that could knock Rosen out of the day 1 starter spot even if he got past the rest of the current Niners depth chart.

Even as a Rosen believer, I'm not buying at those odds.