Twilight Struggle

I didn't realize the game used a chess clock for time in multiplayer; I had assumed it was between turns. Maybe I should have gotten a hint from the elo.

Made a PlayDek account now, "TheFerret".

I bought this after watching the Giantbomb quick look of it. I think I love this game. That said, I'm absolutely terrible at it.

Played an AI game this morning to learn the interface before I start up a vs. human game.

I can second the earlier comment the AI seems a bit clueless about defending European Control... which was lucky for me because otherwise I would have actually lost that game.

It also makes some odd Space Race choices. I'm not necessarily surprised to see Fidel sent to the moon, but it was a bit surprising to him shoved into a Soviet rocket instead of a U.S. one. This happened with a few other cards too, I would see the card played, get worried because it was a strong Soviet card... only to find out the Soviet AI was in fact just spacing it.

I picked this up for iPad and have played 6 or so games against the AI. Fun game! I've played a lot of 1960: The Making of the President and I think I'm starting to enjoy Twilight Struggle more. It's tense.

Anyone up for playing a slow paced game? I play a lot of asynchronous board game apps and am Chroso on Playdek.

So Brian Reynolds of Alpha Centauri/Rise of Nations fame is doing some Let's Plays of Twilight Struggle and they're great. I haven't watched the Turn Zero ones because I don't have that DLC and I'm not sure I'm interested but the vanilla (with optional cards) play through he's on is terrific.

I think he does a good job of explaining the basics of the game (starting setup, how coups work) while also getting deeper into what he's doing strategic and some general tips.

He's got me playing a bit of the game again although only against the AI (and boy do I wish the AI was better). When I did play online it was fun but I don't think I want to play a correspondence type game and I worry about life interrupting when playing a game with more time pressure.

Ooooo...that sounds great! Thanks for the recommendation! Hopefully it will help me understand why I'm terrible at it.

Rise, o thread!

Moving an emergent conversation about this game out of the Wargamers' Corner thread to keep it from cluttering up the focus there.

There are a handful of us playing the 2-player online version of Twilight Struggle on Steam. Really enjoying learning how to play this!

And I may have ordered the board game version as well...

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/eWZtIOe.jpg)

I'm looking forward to spending time learning Twilight Struggle. I've dipped my toes in a couple of times playing the AI with the digital version, playing online opponents is a new challenge.

If anyone playing is also interested in the subject matter, I read The Cold War: A World History by Odd Arne Westad just last year, it's a good overview of the power struggle between the US and USSR from 1945-89. My next book to read just happens to be Nuclear Folly - A New History of the Cuban Missile Crisis by Serhii Plokhy (his previous book Chernobyl - History of a Tragedy, was excellent).

Neutrino wrote:

I'm looking forward to spending time learning Twilight Struggle. I've dipped my toes in a couple of times playing the AI with the digital version, playing online opponents is a new challenge.

If anyone playing is also interested in the subject matter, I read The Cold War: A World History by Odd Arne Westad just last year, it's a good overview of the power struggle between the US and USSR from 1945-89. My next book to read just happens to be Nuclear Folly - A New History of the Cuban Missile Crisis by Serhii Plokhy (his previous book Chernobyl - History of a Tragedy, was excellent).

I ordered the book just now, looks like a good read, thanks!

I feel like the game does a good job of capturing the flavor of the Cold War. Space race, trying to win influence, historical events that shift influence, it's all such a clever system. I can see what it's so highly rated and enjoyed.

It's also interesting to see the different approaches to the game that people are taking. It seems like there are a good number of possible successful strategies a player can take.

If you are looking for slow (but steady), amateur-ish play, I'm your man! (PM, if you want to set up a match).

If not already mentioned, https://twilightstrategy.com/ is a great resource.

I had way too much fun playing yesterday, and I want to slow down a bit with my games so I don't burn out really fast on this.

matttutor wrote:

If you are looking for slow (but steady), amateur-ish play, I'm your man! (PM, if you want to set up a match).

If not already mentioned, https://twilightstrategy.com/ is a great resource.

PM sent! I think I have space for one more game, especially at a slow but steady pace.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Rise, o thread!

Glad to see this and great that we're getting some games going.

Repeating my own open invite to others to find me on Steam to try out Twilight Struggle (and maybe Labyrinth). I'm GioClark on the Playdek servers as well.

GioClark wrote:
Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Rise, o thread!

Glad to see this and great that we're getting some games going.

Repeating my own open invite to others to find me on Steam to try out Twilight Struggle (and maybe Labyrinth). I'm GioClark on the Playdek servers as well.

That's a great idea, specifically where Labyrinth is concerned. Twilight Struggle I get...Labyrinth, I don't (yet).

GioClark, I friended and challenged you. I can't find Matttutor or Godzilla Blitz on the Playdek servers, unfortunately.

Natus wrote:
GioClark wrote:
Godzilla Blitz wrote:

Rise, o thread!

Glad to see this and great that we're getting some games going.

Repeating my own open invite to others to find me on Steam to try out Twilight Struggle (and maybe Labyrinth). I'm GioClark on the Playdek servers as well.

That's a great idea, specifically where Labyrinth is concerned. Twilight Struggle I get...Labyrinth, I don't (yet).

GioClark, I friended and challenged you. I can't find Matttutor or Godzilla Blitz on the Playdek servers, unfortunately.

Oh, Labyrinth... Hmm. *thinking*

Natus --> I'm ZillaBlitz on the Playdek servers.

I have both games on Steam and Twilight on iOS. I've only played Twilight a couple times a few years ago. Still haven't got the hang of it yet. Haven't tried Labyrinth yet, but seems like I should love it once I learn it.

It's been a while as I said, so I probably should do a refresher. Seems like in TS you need to have a good handle on what cards are in the game so you know what to expect or look for. Not sure if the same holds for Labyrinth, but I assume it must be similar in that respect.

I'm guessing I should watch a video on them both again and try a game or two against the AI to wrap my head around them, unless anyone has a better or more specific path to grok the games.

quasiChaos wrote:

I have both games on Steam and Twilight on iOS. I've only played Twilight a couple times a few years ago. Still haven't got the hang of it yet. Haven't tried Labyrinth yet, but seems like I should love it once I learn it.

It's been a while as I said, so I probably should do a refresher. Seems like in TS you need to have a good handle on what cards are in the game so you know what to expect or look for. Not sure if the same holds for Labyrinth, but I assume it must be similar in that respect.

I'm guessing I should watch a video on them both again and try a game or two against the AI to wrap my head around them, unless anyone has a better or more specific path to grok the games.

For me--and YMMV--TS is a lot easier to grok than Labyrinth. I'm on my third game of Labyrinth and I still don't know what I'm doing. New TS players can do well, they just won't know all the tricky maneuvers veterans know. Try a game versus the AI and see what you think, or play a learning game with one of us. But as you suggested, a good video would be ideal.

I've found the rules of TS pretty straightforward. There aren't many mechanics, and they become pretty clear after a handful of games. The basic tutorial is really enough to get started. The strategies in the game are more subtle, and understanding the strengths and weaknesses of the cards feels like a long, fun journey.

I'd recommend doing the tutorial and then starting a 2-player game with someone here or someone you know. Even if you lose in the first couple of turns, you'll learn a ton. I'm finding the conversations with the people I'm playing really helpful. We discuss what worked, what didn't, what we were thinking, talk about rules clarifications, etc.

It's a very unique game, and the way the cards work is fascinating. The biggest conceptual leap I've found so far is understanding that you're often doing things that benefit the other player, and the key is doing those beneficial things to provide the least benefit possible to them. If you've got a really good event card for your opponent, you're trying to play it very badly for them.

Hello all.

I've not played Labyrinth in years and though I don't own Labyrinth on Steam (and will not buy it (see below)), I am happy to assist you in figuring it out...

Personal tangent -

Years and years ago, as I slowly waded into the "new" board game world, I came upon Twilight Struggle. I acquired a copy and played a handful of games via Vassal (!). I was intrigued and thought to myself, Maybe wargames are for me? (Back in time, probably whilst Twilight Struggle was #1 on BGG, there was an ongoing debate whether Twilight Struggle "was" a wargame - no idea if anyone still cares about that - digressions within digressions). I started occasionally playing other wargames via Vassal, mostly card-based ones as chits, counters, hit-sheets I determined were beyond my understanding/attention span/interest level... (though combat commander was quite good). Then Labyrinth came out. And I tried that a couple of times. And while the mechanics of the game WERE interesting... I FELT terrible playing the game. This was not "abstract", this was not 100+ years ago. This was ongoing, unresolved and impacting people's lives around me. I decided that Labyrinth and wargames generally (I guess other than TS) were simply not for me.

Labyrinth is unusual because it's *supposed* to make you think about current affairs. I guarantee that if you drop $10 on Pavlov's House or Castle Itter (Steam, IOS or board), or $30-$40 on one of John Tiller's historical masterpieces, you will have a different experience entirely.

Although you might want to avoid the COIN boardgames, as they are asymmetrical enough that you might find them similar to Labyrinth.

matttutor wrote:

Personal tangent -

Years and years ago, as I slowly waded into the "new" board game world, I came upon Twilight Struggle. I acquired a copy and played a handful of games via Vassal (!). I was intrigued and thought to myself, Maybe wargames are for me? (Back in time, probably whilst Twilight Struggle was #1 on BGG, there was an ongoing debate whether Twilight Struggle "was" a wargame - no idea if anyone still cares about that - digressions within digressions). I started occasionally playing other wargames via Vassal, mostly card-based ones as chits, counters, hit-sheets I determined were beyond my understanding/attention span/interest level... (though combat commander was quite good). Then Labyrinth came out. And I tried that a couple of times. And while the mechanics of the game WERE interesting... I FELT terrible playing the game. This was not "abstract", this was not 100+ years ago. This was ongoing, unresolved and impacting people's lives around me. I decided that Labyrinth and wargames generally (I guess other than TS) were simply not for me.

Isn't this interesting? I just played Brotherhood & Unity via VASSAL twice, which is actually a fascinating 3-player wargame you can finish in 2-3 hours with experienced players. But it concerns the Bosnian War, which was a tragic and nasty conflict full of massacres, civilian deaths, snipers, refugee crises, etc. I told one of the B&U gamers--who, like the designer, is from the former Yugoslavia himself--that other wargame friends of mine were leery of playing it. His response was that we all played wargames about Vietnam, WW2, the Cold War, and the Mongol & Timurid conquests (just for starters) where the war crimes in WW2 alone were innumerable. So where do you draw the line? For you, it seems that avoiding wargames was the answer. For me, it's playing them, even those that make me uncomfortable UNLESS they are designed and presented in a way that is tone-deaf and obnoxious. (hi, Compass Games!)

I'm not sure you're missing all that much not playing Labyrinth, but man, there are some super wargame designs out there that I encourage you to look at when you want.

Garg. Rolling a "1" on a coup attempt totally blows.

By the way, thanks to all who have started up 2-player games of this. I'm having a great time, despite rolling 1's on coup attempts.

Was happy to see this arrive today...

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/qTL7SOy.jpg)

I'm enjoying learning as we play Godzilla Blitz, while still slowly getting to understand each of the cards.

Ah and the book arrived, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did!

I’m honestly nervous about getting that book. I started paying attention to world news as a child around 1968, and living through the next 30 years was in many ways trauma-inducing. Not sure I want to revisit it.

Robear wrote:

I’m honestly nervous about getting that book. I started paying attention to world news as a child around 1968, and living through the next 30 years was in many ways trauma-inducing. Not sure I want to revisit it.

I can totally understand this. But I’m also curious about how much I just didn’t understand or know. I feel like I know maybe 50% of what happened in the Cold War, and much of that was processed as a child.

Yeah. I was immersed in it. History books, Walter Cronkite and the newspaper every day, a year of Russian History in high school, family friends who were in Viet Nam, Korea and the Middle East during conflicts, anti-nuclear and peace demonstrations, meeting Eastern European refugees... And all that before college lol. It was top of mind for me during the period and I sweated every diplomatic crisis. We even spent summers in VT at a place that happened to be on the flight path between Greenland/Iceland and Albany, so I got to see (and hear) wings of B-52s heading out for exercises on a regular basis.

It was anxiety-inducing, but then I’m prone to anxiety. Understanding the worrying stuff helped me mitigate that. So I was into current events.

What do people think about the role of luck in the game?

I'm kind of the opinion that it definitely has an impact, but I haven't played enough to know how much. I can definitely see the difference in how a game plays out when you get good cards in the first hand and good dice rolls, as opposed to weaker cards and some cruddy dice rolls.

With good cards and dice rolls, you can really go on the offensive. With the opposite, I feel like I'm plugging leaks half as fast as they are appearing.

Godzilla Blitz wrote:

What do people think about the role of luck in the game?

I'm kind of the opinion that it definitely has an impact, but I haven't played enough to know how much. I can definitely see the difference in how a game plays out when you get good cards in the first hand and good dice rolls, as opposed to weaker cards and some cruddy dice rolls.

With good cards and dice rolls, you can really go on the offensive. With the opposite, I feel like I'm plugging leaks half as fast as they are appearing. :)

Doing what you can to mitigate the impact of luck is much of the game to me. The biggest lucky factor you can't really control is somebody getting Red Scare/Purge more than once in a game. That really tilts the scales.

I'm not a game designer but I really wonder if the game would be better if Red Scare/Purge were split into two separate 4-ops cards with the event for each side instead of a general card. Getting RS/P'd once sucks but it's part of the game, having it happen more than once just ruins things.

Sorry I’ve been away from the game for the past day or so. Little bit of a crazy stretch at work, I should be able to resume playing tomorrow.