Help me build my PC 2020 Catch All

I agree I think 1400 sounds right but I would go as low as 1200.00 if someone offered that.

Holy sh*t I think I just snagged a 5900X from Amazon at MSRP. I got an order confirmation email - hopefully it sticks.

EVGA 3080 shows "coming soon" on best buy right now

merphle wrote:

Holy sh*t I think I just snagged a 5900X from Amazon at MSRP. I got an order confirmation email - hopefully it sticks.

Saw that on Twitter but gone when I looked. Not that I need CPU.

Yeah, Every time I see that Amazon alert from brobot, no love from Amazon. Think I’m going to go for the 5800.

Serengeti wrote:

I really don't understand the scam though. This "seller" will never see a penny of the money, unless one of the buyers doesn't report it to eBay I suppose, but what are the chances that would happen? I don't understand how these scammers make money...

Are you sure about that? You already paid for it, so that money went somewhere. It's not like Ebay was holding it in escrow until you received the goods.

Stele wrote:

EVGA 3080 shows "coming soon" on best buy right now

Pretty sure that one’s always been listed as “coming soon”. Best Buy has never received any of it and probably never will since there’s the near identical, more expensive version that EVGA is probably focusing on here.

gewy wrote:
Stele wrote:

EVGA 3080 shows "coming soon" on best buy right now

Pretty sure that one’s always been listed as “coming soon”. Best Buy has never received any of it and probably never will since there’s the near identical, more expensive version that EVGA is probably focusing on here.

Oh sorry. Was just looking for retail prices there and then thought I would filter by available just in case... Oh well.

Jonman wrote:
Serengeti wrote:

I really don't understand the scam though. This "seller" will never see a penny of the money, unless one of the buyers doesn't report it to eBay I suppose, but what are the chances that would happen? I don't understand how these scammers make money...

Are you sure about that? You already paid for it, so that money went somewhere. It's not like Ebay was holding it in escrow until you received the goods.

I thought eBay did exactly that via their ownership of PayPal? If they don't hold payment for at least some period of time, then wouldn't that be the easiest scam in the world, and wouldn't 99.9% of eBay listing that type of scam?

Serengeti wrote:

I thought eBay did exactly that via their ownership of PayPal? If they don't hold payment for at least some period of time, then wouldn't that be the easiest scam in the world, and wouldn't 99.9% of eBay listing that type of scam?

Last time I sold something on Ebay, the money appeared in my Paypal account as soon as the seller made payment, and I could withdraw it to my own bank account at that point.

I mean, from a logistical standpoint, the buyer doesn't know they've been scammed for several days - when it doesn't turn up in the mail. That gives the scammer plenty of time to make off with the cash.

jonnypolite wrote:

Yeah, Every time I see that Amazon alert from brobot, no love from Amazon. Think I’m going to go for the 5800.

My success on this order actually happened after Brobot had revised its message to say that Amazon was again out of stock. There's a trick to dealing with this situation, which took me a while to figure out over the past couple of weeks of trial & error:

1) Get notification that it's in stock.

2) Open the 5900X page.

2a) If you see an "add to cart" button for MSRP $549, then click it and go to #3.
2b) If you don't, then click the small "New & Used" link to open the side panel.
2c) If you see an "add to cart" button for MSRP $549, then click it and go to #3.
2d) If you don't, then F5 to reload the page and go back to #2 and try again.

3) If you see a page that says something like "that item is no longer in stock, item not added to cart", then F5 to reload the page, and click the browser's "resend form fields" button or whatever. Keep doing this until you see "item successfully added to cart", then click to check out and go to #4.

4) If you see a cart checkout page that says something like "out of stock" and the quantity of the 5900X in your cart is 0 and it gives a button to "save quantities", then DO NOT CLICK THAT "SAVE QUANTITIES" BUTTON. Also DO NOT CLICK THE "CONFIRM SHIPPING ADDRESS" BUTTON IF THE CART SHOWS QTY 0.
4a) Instead, you guessed it: F5 to reload the page! Keep doing that until it updates to show Qty 1 in your cart. Once it says Qty 1, then you can safely click "confirm shipping address", "confirm payment details", etc. Complete the check out process as fast as humanly possible. You might have to try this step many times.

I didn't realize page-reloading worked with Amazon's checkout process. This was a game-changer for me. I was always worried that it was going to try to sneak in a scalper's listing. Remember, you can always change the shipping address and payment details later, after the order is confirmed. Or cancel it altogether if something's gone really wonky. Amazon shouldn't complete the charge until the order ships, so you have some time.

Man, that’s awesome advice, thanks merphle!!

Jonman wrote:
Serengeti wrote:

I thought eBay did exactly that via their ownership of PayPal? If they don't hold payment for at least some period of time, then wouldn't that be the easiest scam in the world, and wouldn't 99.9% of eBay listing that type of scam?

Last time I sold something on Ebay, the money appeared in my Paypal account as soon as the seller made payment, and I could withdraw it to my own bank account at that point.

I mean, from a logistical standpoint, the buyer doesn't know they've been scammed for several days - when it doesn't turn up in the mail. That gives the scammer plenty of time to make off with the cash.

Well that just seems way too easy to abuse. Huh.

jonnypolite wrote:

Man, that’s awesome advice, thanks merphle!!

Yes but it also means use the web site not the app probably. For day to day shopping the app is pretty great, but maybe I should disable auto open if I ever get serious about this.

Alright, assuming that my Amazon order actually goes through, here's the part list I'm looking at assembling.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 3.7 GHz 12-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 RGB Black Edition 57.3 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) ATX AM4 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill Trident Z RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory
Storage: Intel 660p Series 1.02 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive
Video Card: MSI GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB GAMING X TRIO Video Card
Case: Corsair 750D ATX Full Tower Case
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS Plus Gold 850 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply

The case, video card, and storage I'm importing from my current PC (just listing in PCPartPicker for reference & compatibility). I could also import my power supply, but I think I'd feel more comfortable setting this up with something shiny and new.

PCPartPicker advises me that the motherboard might need a BIOS flash, which in turn would require a gen 3 CPU (which I don't have). How likely is this to be the situation?

Anything else silly I'm doing here? I debated going with an AIO water cooler, but I already have a gigantic case, and internal airflow has never been a problem with my current 212 EVO, so I thought I might just stick with something simple.

Edit: That said, maybe it's worth considering a new case as well. That way I could leave the old PC virtually intact (just pull the drives & video card), to swap back in case something goes wonky with the new one. Hmm...

I thought some of the motherboards can flash without a CPU now? You put a USB stick in with the files and press a button and voila. Check if that mobo has that feature and you should be ok.

EDIT: Nope, one of the reviews at Amazon says that mobo doesn't have a flash bios. That's a shame.

I thought that one does support it. Maybe check the Asus site for documentation and don't believe an Amazon review? I thought when I looked it did support a process to flash it without a CPU.
I just got that same board for my build (same CPU as you), and there was a sticker on the box confirming 5000-series support. No flash needed for it to boot.
I went with the Arctic Liquid Freezer II 280 for my build. It's pretty quiet, and seems to do a great job moving heat away from the CPU. I ran that Cinebench test from upthread and the highest reported temp was 55C during the multicore test.

merphle: I'm not sure how the 5900X compares to my 5800X, but I can definitely tell you that the 5800X is hot as hell, and really needs a good cooler. I bought a Noctua C14 something-or-other, which is substantially better than the Hyper 212, and it's just not able to keep up properly. I'm running the proc in Eco mode for now (85 watt mode), and it's still blazing quick, but I will eventually need something better. You might want the classic Noctua DH-15, which is basically best-of-breed in air cooling. Check your case clearances, though. It's very large. AFAIK, the only way to improve from there is to buy an AIO with a big radiator. I would think you would want at least a 240mm if you can fit that in your case, with a 360mm being even better. (Cooling is about the radiator more than the heat transport mechanism; the liquid doesn't matter much, but the flatness of the cold plate and the size of the radiator matter a great deal.) I strongly suspect the DH-15 would be fine in a case with good airflow.

Other than that, it looks like a solid build. For the SSD, I'm running a 660p myself, and while it's far from the fastest on the market, it's still very comfortable to use. In a year or two, we may both be looking to upgrade to something to match the consoles, but it should be fine for now.

Stele wrote:

I thought some of the motherboards can flash without a CPU now? You put a USB stick in with the files and press a button and voila. Check if that mobo has that feature and you should be ok.

EDIT: Nope, one of the reviews at Amazon says that mobo doesn't have a flash bios. That's a shame.

ASUS, unfortunately, splits that feature out as a market segmenter, and charges a lot of money for it. It's on my Crosshair VIII Hero, for instance, and was a major reason I bought this board, but it's about the cheapest ASUS sells that has it. It's a real nice motherboard, mind, but that's a lot of extra money versus what merphle chose.

This is a really unfortunate choice on their part, as BIOS viruses are becoming a thing. If you get infected, it's quite possible that a motherboard without the separate re-flash capability would be unrecoverable, at least without replacing the physical chip, which would be an extremely difficult soldering job.

All that said, he's probably fine. It's quite unlikely that a board bought new, today, would have a BIOS that was incompatible with Zen 3. It's been out six months, and I doubt that any x570 boards have been sitting around that long. IIRC, ASUS updated their BIOSes to support Zen 3 by, like, August of last year, well before the chips actually shipped.

edit: after digging for some time, it looks like Ryzen 3 requires AMD's AGESA version 1.0.8.0 or newer. ASUS shipped that version in their BIOS 2607 for merphle's board, which was released on 8/17/20. So it's been almost exactly eight months, and I would be very surprised if a board sold now had an older BIOS than that.

Yeah Amazon review in Jan said BIOS wouldn't run a 5000 series, but then a Q&A on Amazon in March said BIOS was up to date enough. So... probably ok like Malor says.

Thanks all for the feedback & research.

Malor, you've got me worried about cooling now. I really wanted to avoid watercooling, under the theory that fewer moving parts (i.e. the water pump) is better. I do like the appearance of AIO coolers though. My case is gigantic (I like having plenty of room for my enormous meat-gloves to operate when installing & tinkering), so I don't have too many concerns about the size of air coolers inside, or even triple-fan radiators on the roof.

Phishposer, I do like the look of that Liquid Freezer (despite the lack of RGBs ), but the coolant pipes look so short. Is that even something to worry about? Would a roof-mounted radiator have enough space for piping to the CPU in a giant case? Surely They must have thought about this already, right?

Malor, you've got me worried about cooling now. I really wanted to avoid watercooling, under the theory that fewer moving parts (i.e. the water pump) is better. I do like the appearance of AIO coolers though. My case is gigantic (I like having plenty of room for my enormous meat-gloves to operate when installing & tinkering), so I don't have too many concerns about the size of air coolers inside, or even triple-fan radiators on the roof.

Having lost two AIO coolers, I strongly share that sentiment. If you can get along with air, that's the way to go. Air coolers themselves don't wear out, can't lose liquid, and don't have pumps to break. As long as you don't physically damage one, it should last pretty much indefinitely. The fans might die, but those are cheap and easy to replace, and the motherboard will give you lots of warning, so it won't be an emergency.

AIOs give you access to larger radiators than you can fit on a CPU. And their heat transfer to the radiator can be very efficient, flowing through a metal grid, where heatpipes have to rely on the heat moving through the metal from the pipes to the fins. So, if you buy a big AIO, you can get a lot more cooling power, but A) they cost more, and B) they're much more likely to break. If you get one that's refillable, you can avoid one source of failure, loss of liquid by permeation through the tubing. That would mean it should last as long as the pump, with the caveat that you might have to top it up every year or two. You will eventually have to replace the whole thing, possibly at short notice, but it could be a long time before that happens.

edit: also, be sure that you can mount the radiator above the pump, so that any air bubbles (which always develop) will in a harmless place. The pump needs to be at the bottom of the loop, so that it's always submerged.

As another note, remember that you can limit the heat output of the chip to whatever you want. The 5800X, at least, defaults to 140 watts or 90C, whichever comes first. But the extra heat output results in relatively small amounts of extra performance. Setting it to Eco mode (85 watts) seems to give me about 90 to 95% of the performance of 140 watts, so just knocking back the heat limits a little is definitely a viable option.

I mean, even at 90%, this sucker flies.

Another drop of 5900x at Amazon this afternoon, I nearly had one this time thanks to merphle.

IMAGE(http://m.quickmeme.com/img/d1/d11d1c516380d1c6ed3da36170911e6e4c7c3683a178d1573d9f56f12fe6a193.jpg)

merphle wrote:

Phishposer, I do like the look of that Liquid Freezer (despite the lack of RGBs ), but the coolant pipes look so short. Is that even something to worry about? Would a roof-mounted radiator have enough space for piping to the CPU in a giant case? Surely They must have thought about this already, right?

I chose that AIO for value and performance, not for looks I considered a big air cooler, and was cautioned by people I trust that it might not be enough cooling for the 5900. The proof is in the pudding IMO in the Cinebench test maxing the temps out at 55C.
I built in a Phanteks P500. There was plenty of length to mount the rad at the top of the case. You can always check at the AIO manufacturer site to be sure. I was impressed their online instructions led with a link to a Gamers Nexus video on properly mounting AIOs, which heavily featured their competition. They really wanted to make sure I mounted the pump and rad in the correct orientation.

Well, it looks like the Asus TUF x570 PRO has the CPUless FlashBack(tm) support, for only about $20 more than the PLUS (and it also has Wifi 6, which I don't particularly need, and some slightly updated USB ports, which I do). I'll probably go for that.

I think I'll start off with that Noctua DH-15 and see how well it works in my environment -- a cool (temperature, not aesthetic) basement.

I've also decided to target a new case, for reasons mentioned above. Phanteks Enthoo Pro TG SE blah blah. It's certainly not as snazzy as that amazing Lian Li case with the front glass panel, but the full-size is important to me, as is having accessible external 5.25" bays for optical drives. This Phanteks case looks like it's basically the same as my current Corsair 750D, but with a slightly improved appearance and some slightly more modern front panel ports. Whatever.

Phishposer wrote:

I chose that AIO for value and performance [...] Cinebench test maxing the temps out at 55C.

I must have missed this in your earlier post. Daaaang.

Adding some fuel to the fire.

The NH D-15 should handle that chip no problem. I have one and it's huge but works great and is super quiet!

Well, it looks like the Asus TUF x570 PRO has the CPUless FlashBack(tm) support, for only about $20 more than the PLUS (and it also has Wifi 6, which I don't particularly need, and some slightly updated USB ports, which I do). I'll probably go for that.

Wow, if I'd realized that, I'd probably have bought that board instead, at least if I could get one sans WiFi. Good job spotting it.

Flashback is one of those things that you never need until you actually do, and then it absolutely saves your bacon. And it means that you can't be permanently compromised by BIOS viruses, because the virus can't interfere with the on-board circuitry to read and update the BIOS. AFAIK, the CPU isn't even started during the re-flash, it's all handled by secondary processors on the board. No matter what egregious crap viruses would otherwise inflict, you can get back to guaranteed-clean hardware. I like that feature a lot, even if I may never actually use it.

Dunno nothing about that case. If you buy it, please let us know what you think!

Malor wrote:

Dunno nothing about that case. If you buy it, please let us know what you think!

It seems to have TGG's seal of approval in the OP of this thread from a couple of years ago.