[Discussion] Police, White Nationalists, and the Rise of Fascism

Gremlin wrote:
Bfgp wrote:

They will appeal though based on the defence attorney mentioning the politician's comments.

Though my understanding is that kind of thing holds zero water. (They'll appeal, but politicians talking about things isn't something they allow appeals for.) Plus we're used to civil lawsuits going back and forth, but criminal cases very rarely get overturned on appeal.

Oh really? Criminal convictions are overturned regularly in Australia. Not based on a politician's comments specifically although jurors watching news is a common cause of mistrial.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Good verdict but it is still upsetting knowing nothing would have happen if the one kid didn't record the murder on her cellphone.

Yes. Good reminder on Twitter tonight, this was the police official account statement the day after:
IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzcrJJcWQAAW9jj?format=jpg&name=medium)

farley3k wrote:

I can't wait to see Fox news and others say how great it was that justice was done. A fair and free trial, with a jury by his peers.

*chuckle*

IMAGE(https://i.postimg.cc/nrv28fNw/download-20210420-162437.png)

Who did it worse? Nancy Pelosi or the Las Vegas Raiders?

Rat Boy wrote:

Who did it worse? Nancy Pelosi or the Las Vegas Raiders?

Absolutely certain that if Trump still had a Twitter account it would have been whatever the f*ck he said.

Rat Boy wrote:

Who did it worse? Nancy Pelosi or the Las Vegas Raiders?

What the f*ck. This is so not hard.

"This is a day for celebration, but there is more work to be done."

That's all you had to say.

Or say nothing and not insert oneself into the narrative of the struggle.

Rat Boy wrote:

Or say nothing and not insert oneself into the narrative of the struggle.

Ding ding ding. We have a winnah!

Rat Boy wrote:

Or say nothing and not insert oneself into the narrative of the struggle.

That works for the Raiders-- they really don't need to have a "take" on this.

Pelosi, though, is one of the people who should be working to fix our broken criminal justice system. She should be assuring the public that she's not going to use this victory as an excuse to ignore the greater problem.

What she shouldn't be doing is saying some incredibly stupid, tone-deaf sh*t that's disrespectful to the deceased and his surviving family.

Edit:

Biden shows how it's done.

Acknowledge the family's loss. Celebrate the victory. Acknowledge how much more there is to do.

It's not hard.

OG_slinger wrote:

*"Killing in the Name" playing softly in the background*

US police and public officials donated to Kyle Rittenhouse, data breach reveals

Update: one of these assholes got fired

William Kelly, executive officer of internal affairs in Norfolk, has been fired for making a donation last fall to Kyle Rittenhouse’s defense fund and commenting, “You’ve done nothing wrong. Every rank and file police officer supports you.”

executive officer of internal affairs in Norfolk,

i.e., I think he's either the main or the second-tier guy in charge of internal investigations.

In case you were still wondering why the police always find the police innocent of all wrongdoing.

NBC News: Police across U.S. respond to Derek Chauvin trial: "Our American way of policing is on trial" after police testify against police officer saying his way of policing wasn't in keeping with their way of policing which was why the police fired the police officer almost a year ago.

Rat Boy wrote:

NBC News: Police across U.S. respond to Derek Chauvin trial: "Our American way of policing is on trial" after police testify against police officer saying his way of policing wasn't in keeping with their way of policing which was why the police fired the police officer almost a year ago.

All of those words, and not one officer willing to take responsibility for the loss of public trust, not one willing to acknowledge that the only way to heal it is for the police to do better.

They're all complicit.

We stopped in our tracks at work (across the globe in Northern Ireland) to listen to the verdicts. You could've heard a pin drop. Then it was a mixture of relief, and surprise, and somber happiness (for lack of a better explanation).

I'm hopeful for each and every American here, that you may see further progress. In the racial sphere. For police force reform.

Justice. At last.

hbi2k wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

NBC News: Police across U.S. respond to Derek Chauvin trial: "Our American way of policing is on trial" after police testify against police officer saying his way of policing wasn't in keeping with their way of policing which was why the police fired the police officer almost a year ago.

All of those words, and not one officer willing to take responsibility for the loss of public trust, not one willing to acknowledge that the only way to heal it is for the police to do better.

They're all complicit.

ACAB

Rat Boy wrote:

NBC News: Police across U.S. respond to Derek Chauvin trial: "Our American way of policing is on trial" after police testify against police officer saying his way of policing wasn't in keeping with their way of policing which was why the police fired the police officer almost a year ago.

Oh, I have seen most of the people I know who are cops today closing ranks on social media. The worst was the one who made a big deal about how "selfless servants of public order" are being turned into "the enemy of the people". I napalmed that bridge pointing out that it's no wonder they're viewed as the enemy if they insist on defending the most egregiously clear cut possible incidence of police violence.

Why a Guilty Verdict doesn't change the reality of police violence

article wrote:

“Criminal prosecution is not an effective way to change policing,” Rachel Harmon, a professor of law and director of the Center for Criminal Justice at the University of Virginia, told me. “It’s individualistic, whereas most of the problems in policing are institutional.” In short: An individual verdict “doesn’t particularly contribute to broader reform,” she said.

Derek Chauvin is just a white supremacist lizard tail. The bit of flesh sacrificed to preserve the body of institutionalized racism. "There. You have your racist. Now shut up about racism".

Though I agree that the filming has increased awareness of the issues of police brutality, it doesn't at all address the root cause of it. That being the institutional adversarial nature of American policing.

Everything about American policing starts from a premise that there are three camps: 1) virtuous cops, 2) dangerous criminals, and 3) expendable civilians. Cop quotas (aka "metrics"), paid overtime for court appearances, civil asset forfeiture, municipal fine culture, and all the rest are all bricks in an architecture designed to make cops predators and the people they "serve" prey. Even the "good" ones are forced by design to do evil things.

The focus on individual police behavior, though satisfying, does little to address the core issue. It punishes the lowest rung employees for decisions made at a policy level. Cops feel persecuted for taking the the punishment for "doing their jobs" and they are right to feel that way. Until we change POLICING, punishing police will mostly be outrage porn.

RnRClown wrote:

We stopped in our tracks at work (across the globe in Northern Ireland) to listen to the verdicts. You could've heard a pin drop. Then it was a mixture of relief, and surprise, and somber happiness (for lack of a better explanation).

I'm hopeful for each and every American here, that you may see further progress. In the racial sphere. For police force reform.

As we see, from the 15-year-old girl shot by police last night, there can't be reform. The system will never reform itself. Only abolition will send this.

Paleocon is right.

When police kill unarmed folks, they are usually following their training. This is why the entire American system of law enforcement needs to change. From the DA, to the police unions, prisons, and training policies. It all needs to be redone. It’s the only way we’re going to see a real change.

Sums up my thoughts better than I could - of course he has a staff of trained writers.

Injustice, But Not Indifference

Ohio bodycam footage is up of the tragedy. Again the problem we have is guns. Unfortunately by the time police arrived the situation was a powder keg with a teenager running out with a knife who was threatening the woman in pink. No one wins here. All we have is a child who is dead...It hurts.

Hobear wrote:

Ohio bodycam footage is up of the tragedy. Again the problem we have is guns. Unfortunately by the time police arrived the situation was a powder keg with a teenager running out with a knife who was threatening the woman in pink. No one wins here. All we have is a child who is dead...It hurts.

I saw this video this morning as well. It is truly tragic what happened, and it will be used as political fodder for (and by) everyone.

Attorney General Merrick Garland has announced the Department of Justice will launch an investigation of the Minneapolis Police Department regarding use of force during protests, its treatment of people with behavioral health disabilities, and whether officers engage in discriminatory conduct.

I'm going to guess today is an even worse day for the MPD than yesterday was. Good.

I'm unable to follow at times.

Is this a necessary step in the right direction? Hope? Let's try to move forward with this momentum?

Is this aimless lateral movement that changes nothing? Oblivion? Let's raze to the ground?

There were many, many scenes showing Americans out in droves to react to these verdicts. Which followed on from those droves out in force to demand accountability, change, justice. Small steps in a much broader picture. Necessary steps. Yet now it seems these actions, and these views, which were mostly echoed across the globe, are being scorned in small instances. It's not enough. It's a waste of time. Shame for taking a moment to react.

No one thinks this is the victory, let alone much of a victory. It's seen as better than what was. It's seen as a necessary move. An opening. Something that may very well evolve and change. It could lead in many directions.

There are police officers still utilising unnecessary force? Yes. It won't change overnight, let alone over a decade. Reform is likely to fail? Abolition is the only end goal? Perhaps. I don't think anyone disagrees. It is a step taken to get there, whichever destination it may be. (I'm not pulling this from thin air. It's based on actual experience. We had our own reform verses abolition journey. We're literally seeing it raise it's head in the here and now, again, with dissident violence. I may not be American but don't mistake me for ignorant on profiled policing and unnecessary use of police force.)

This should not be considered any sort of finality. I hope few Americans if any think this individualist punishment within the existing framework can be sustainable for change. That's crazy. And depressing.

I'm having trouble following what exactly you're trying to say here, RnR. The constant half sentence make it difficult to understand what the message is here. That might just be a failing on my part, though.

mudbunny wrote:
Hobear wrote:

Ohio bodycam footage is up of the tragedy. Again the problem we have is guns. Unfortunately by the time police arrived the situation was a powder keg with a teenager running out with a knife who was threatening the woman in pink. No one wins here. All we have is a child who is dead...It hurts.

I saw this video this morning as well. It is truly tragic what happened, and it will be used as political fodder for (and by) everyone.

So now there's video of police at the scene shouting "Blue Lives Matter" at a crowd of predominantly Black onlookers.

I’ll clarify my position a bit.

Part of my vehement support of defund and, raze and start over has to do with negotiation tactics. It’s a concept called anchoring. I want to anchor the negotiations against our fascist police state with an idealistic demand, knowing full well that the demand will never be fulfilled. If the cops can meet halfway between what we have now and this idealistic demand, THAT will be a significant change. I want to be clear though that I wholeheartedly support defund and rebuild, but I don’t think it will ever happen.

Also. This problem is systemic. Convicting the cops who kill unarmed folks will be like playing whack-a-mole. There’s just too many of them, and the police force can hire them way faster than we can convict them. So yes, it’s a momentous and extremely important feat to have FINALLY convicted a cop who killed for pleasure, but I feel it’s completely symbolic and accomplishes very little. It could even have a negative effect. Remember when Obama was first elected and America celebrated the end of racism? Well, I’m sure that for millions of white middle class male Americans, the conviction of DC is proof that police brutality is over.

I caught flak from Mrs Rawk for having this attitude. It’s not that I’m a negative nelly, it’s that I DO see the forest for the trees.