NFL 2021: The offseason and draft thread

staygold wrote:

I'm curious. Draft-niks have Justin Fields as the 4th or 5th QB drafted. Averaging around pick 4, but anywhere from pick 3 to 17 from what I've seen. To my analysis and eye, he might even be better than Lawrence taking away all priors and just evaluating what was on the field.

So why is he so maligned by most media? Is it helmet scouting? Is it race? Is it fatigue over Fields being so good for so long?

I'm guessing it's because Fields comes from a long line of sorry Ohio State QBs. The thinking is, if OSU is so good year after year, why are their QBS so terrible in the NFL?

Clemson, meanwhile, produced Watson, Bama is Bama, ND State has Wentz and BYU is a veritable QB factory (Steve Young, Jim McMahon, TAYSOM HILL).

Vector wrote:

Ryan Fitzpatrick exists so if you have a terrible o-line, you plug him in for half the games and protect your QB while you build it up for the next season.

Tyrod Taylor too.

I wonder who the next journeyman starting QB is going to be when these two are done. Who is a good but athletically limited starter that you can comfortably start for a while but you're always looking to improve on? Someone smart enough to roll into town and learn your system quickly.

It's early days in his career still, but I could see Gardner Minshew being that guy.

Justin Fields just ran a 4.44 40 at his Pro Day.

Damn. I had him pegged in the mid 4.5 range.

This puts him just a hair behind RG3 (4.41) and RG3 weighed about 15 fewer pounds.

*Legion* wrote:

It's early days in his career still, but I could see Gardner Minshew being that guy.

First one I thought of. He's young and just mustachioed, but, one day, he will emerge from his cocoon with his beard in full, Fitzpatrick-esque glory.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

It's early days in his career still, but I could see Gardner Minshew being that guy.

First one I thought of. He's young and just mustachioed, but, one day, he will emerge from his cocoon with his beard in full, Fitzpatrick-esque glory.

I actually think the mustache is the perfect differentiator between the two. Can be Minshew's future trademark. "Get me that guy with the mustache! He'll hold fort until *INSERT ROOKIE QB* is ready!" says cigar-chomping GM.

Unfortunately Minshew needs to be a starter for Buffalo for at least 3 years to take up the mantle. Somehow the Bills are good with a good QB so...

*Legion* wrote:
Vector wrote:

Ryan Fitzpatrick exists so if you have a terrible o-line, you plug him in for half the games and protect your QB while you build it up for the next season.

Tyrod Taylor too.

I wonder who the next journeyman starting QB is going to be when these two are done. Who is a good but athletically limited starter that you can comfortably start for a while but you're always looking to improve on? Someone smart enough to roll into town and learn your system quickly.

It's early days in his career still, but I could see Gardner Minshew being that guy.

IMAGE(https://cdn.5280.com/2019/09/Joe-Flacco_AP-Images.jpg)

Enix wrote:

Bama is Bama

Alabama QBs haven’t been much better in the NFL. I pretty much view them through the same lens as OSU QBs. When most, if not all, of the o-line is early round draft picks with NFL quality receivers anybody will look decent.

iaintgotnopants wrote:
Enix wrote:

Bama is Bama

Alabama QBs haven’t been much better in the NFL. I pretty much view them through the same lens as OSU QBs. When most, if not all, of the o-line is early round draft picks with NFL quality receivers anybody will look decent.

The last QB from Alabama who would be unequivocally called good is probably Ken Stabler. Bama QBs have had a ceiling off Peru much AJ McCarron.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
Enix wrote:

Bama is Bama

Alabama QBs haven’t been much better in the NFL. I pretty much view them through the same lens as OSU QBs. When most, if not all, of the o-line is early round draft picks with NFL quality receivers anybody will look decent.

The last QB from Alabama who would be unequivocally called good is probably Ken Stabler. Bama QBs have had a ceiling off Peru much AJ McCarron.

Are you belittling the long and storied career of Greg, the worst McElroy brother, McElroy? I mean, he's on TV now. They don't let bad football players on TV, do they?

Whew, Justin Fields pro day was something special. His downside of holding onto the ball really doesn't fit well with Shanny though.

Man, I can completely understand the talk of Mac Jones to the Niners. Jumping up to 3 gives them the ability to choose their guy while the Falcons are stuck with whoever is left.

This is a well and truly fascinating discussion, but it'll be so much better if the Jets don't take a QB with a second pick.

garion333 wrote:

This is a well and truly fascinating discussion, but it'll be so much better if the Jets Jaguars don't take a QB with a second first pick.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
iaintgotnopants wrote:
Enix wrote:

Bama is Bama

Alabama QBs haven’t been much better in the NFL. I pretty much view them through the same lens as OSU QBs. When most, if not all, of the o-line is early round draft picks with NFL quality receivers anybody will look decent.

The last QB from Alabama who would be unequivocally called good is probably Ken Stabler. Bama QBs have had a ceiling off Peru much AJ McCarron.

Before him was Joe Namath. That's a pretty good legacy.

You know who else was a starting Bama QB? Former Browns HC Freddie Kitchens!

Anyway, Bama has two and soon to be three starting NFL QBs: Jalen Hurts (OK, half credit for him bc he finished at Oklahoma) and Tua Tagovailoa. And then Mac Jones, of course.

I wouldn't argue that any of those guys are great QBs. But they're starting QBs, and they've been a lot better than the QBs that TOSU has inflicted on the world in recent years.

Also: Most colleges can't claim a single starting NFL QB, much less two (or three, like Oklahoma w Baker, Murray and Hurts).

Buzbee won't provide information to police

Well, that doesn't look at all sleazy.

Yup, I popped in here to post that link. He's managing to squeeze a big helping of self-serving political theater into this.

Everything about Buzbee continues to set off all the wrong flags. If there weren't SO many victims and the one who talked to SI it would be SO easy to believe it was fake/extortion.

garion333 wrote:

Everything about Buzbee continueas to set off all the wrong things. If there weren't SO many victims and the one who talked to SI it would be SO easy to believe it was fake/extortion.

Yeah. I'm still 100% in belief of the women's accounts, and think Buzbee's sleaze is just opportunism rather than fabrication.

But I will say that the sleazier Buzbee is, the firmer I am in my belief that there were shenanigans related to these cases landing in Buzbee's lap in the first place.

Everything about this story is awful, and Watson's lawyers today released a series of statements from massage therapists who had positive experiences with Watson, as if "didn't sexually assault everybody" somehow equates to "didn't sexually assault anybody". This is an ugly story in every way.

Also, you're a @#$!! professional athlete, and considered one of the singly-best at your position anywhere. If you wanted a massage, you plan to move between several dozen private massage therapists, every single one of whom whose name has come out so far is a woman? If you wanted a massage, the Texans organization wouldn't provide that in-house happily at any time you darn well please?

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Everything about this story is awful, and Watson's lawyers today released a series of statements from massage therapists who had positive experiences with Watson, as if "didn't sexually assault everybody" somehow equates to "didn't sexually assault anybody". This is an ugly story in every way.

Also, you're a @#$!! professional athlete, and considered one of the singly-best at your position anywhere. If you wanted a massage, you plan to move between several dozen private massage therapists, every single one of whom whose name has come out so far is a woman? If you wanted a massage, the Texans organization wouldn't provide that in-house happily at any time you darn well please?

It's about flaunting his power over them. He sets the rules of the engagement, deliberately broke their boundaries, and then acted as if nothing had happened with them. It literally gets him off. At least according to the SI story.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

Everything about Buzbee continueas to set off all the wrong things. If there weren't SO many victims and the one who talked to SI it would be SO easy to believe it was fake/extortion.

Yeah. I'm still 100% in belief of the women's accounts, and think Buzbee's sleaze is just opportunism rather than fabrication.

But I will say that the sleazier Buzbee is, the firmer I am in my belief that there were shenanigans related to these cases landing in Buzbee's lap in the first place.

The SI story indicated that one of the reasons she's, at this time, not considering legal action is because Buzbee's firm is requiring her to sign exclusivity contracts. She does not trust him either.

Enix wrote:

Also: Most colleges can't claim a single starting NFL QB, much less two SUPERBOWL STARTING QBs (or three, like Oklahoma w Baker, Murray and Hurts) .

This is where I'm supposed to chime in right?

Carlbear95 wrote:

This is where I'm supposed to chime in right?

NFL starting QB count:

Cal: 2
Fresno State: 1
USC: 1
fUCLA: 0
Stanfurd: 0

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Everything about this story is awful, and Watson's lawyers today released a series of statements from massage therapists who had positive experiences with Watson, as if "didn't sexually assault everybody" somehow equates to "didn't sexually assault anybody". This is an ugly story in every way.

Also, you're a @#$!! professional athlete, and considered one of the singly-best at your position anywhere. If you wanted a massage, you plan to move between several dozen private massage therapists, every single one of whom whose name has come out so far is a woman? If you wanted a massage, the Texans organization wouldn't provide that in-house happily at any time you darn well please?

Yeah, the list of women he didn't assault only further establishes just how much Watson's massage habit involves sequentially moving from one female massage therapist to the next. Usually, you find someone who does a good job and, you know, book them again and again. Maybe have a small group of go-to favorites so availability isn't an issue. There's only a few possible reasons to be hitting up every female massage therapist in the city, and they're all pretty bad.

21 total lawsuits now, by the way. Blackjack.

*Legion* wrote:
Carlbear95 wrote:

This is where I'm supposed to chime in right?

NFL starting QB count:

Cal: 2
Fresno State: 1
USC: 1
fUCLA: 0
Stanfurd: 0

Is there any correlation between being a starting QB in one Super Bowl and being a good QB?

Enix wrote:

Also: Most colleges can't claim a single starting NFL QB, much less two (or three, like Oklahoma w Baker, Murray and Hurts).

2 starting QB club here.

Hell we have a 3rd QB who is playing backup RB and scored some TDs last season.

garion333 wrote:
*Legion* wrote:
Carlbear95 wrote:

This is where I'm supposed to chime in right?

NFL starting QB count:

Cal: 2
Fresno State: 1
USC: 1
fUCLA: 0
Stanfurd: 0

Is there any correlation between being a starting QB in one Super Bowl and being a good QB?

I dunno.. Marino started in one SB didn't he? Obviously my bias is showing through, but I'm not sure why Goff seems to get thrown into the Heath Shuler / Tim Couch / Ryan Leaf category.

Carlbear95 wrote:

Obviously my bias is showing through, but I'm not sure why Goff seems to get thrown into the Heath Shuler / Tim Couch / Ryan Leaf category.

Expectations are higher because he was the No. 1 overall pick. Never mind that the last 20 years of No. 1 overall picks have been generally not great.

That said, I don't think anyone has lumped Goff in with those guys, at least not yet. He has been a starting QB for the last four+ seasons, and he's on track to have a long career in the league. He's not a star, but he's not a stiff either.

Two headlines in a row on PFT:

-Jason Licht promises not to draft another kicker.
-Bucs plan on picking up Vita Vea's fifth-year option.

Uh, "duh" and "duh".

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Two headlines in a row on PFT:

-Jason Licht promises not to draft another kicker.
-Bucs plan on picking up Vita Vea's fifth-year option.

Uh, "duh" and "duh".

*points at calendar*

Enjoy your 1st round kicker and 5th round replacement DT. Get wrecked nerd.

*Legion* wrote:
MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Two headlines in a row on PFT:

-Jason Licht promises not to draft another kicker.
-Bucs plan on picking up Vita Vea's fifth-year option.

Uh, "duh" and "duh".

*points at calendar*

Enjoy your 1st round kicker and 5th round replacement DT. Get wrecked nerd.

Listen, I clearly have a less than entirely comfortable relationship with my historical Bucs fandom these days, but, well, is this really the offseason to be taunting a Bucs fan? I mean, I know how you look forward to the opportunity to have one of your teams ruin a generational QB prospect in a way that makes Andrew Luck wince and the other OH PLEASE GOD draft Mac Jones, but, you know . . .

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Two headlines in a row on PFT:

-Jason Licht promises not to draft another kicker.
-Bucs plan on picking up Vita Vea's fifth-year option.

Uh, "duh" and "duh".

Vita Vea was drafted 5 years ago!?!?!? Now I feel old

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

is this really the offseason to be taunting a Bucs fan?

It's easy to sh*t talk when you have the advantage. True pros can do it from the bottom of the standings.

My teams are gonna draft a pair of transcendent QB prospects that set them up for the next 20 years, while Tampa will be headed to the dumpster in about another year after Arians calls it quits again, and Brady retires to a leisurely life of children mouth-kissing and occasional posts on Trump's floundering new social media site.