NFL 2021: The offseason and draft thread

Enix wrote:

There's absolutely no way the refs let Brady get sacked 500+ times. No way in hell.

It still goes in the stats as a sack even if you throw the flag and call roughing the passer on it afterward.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:
Top_Shelf wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Question for the Seahawks fans: given the choice, would you rather keep Russ or Pete Carroll?

You don't know who the replacement for either would be, but you do know that you would get a bunch of draft pick compensation if you lose Russ.

At this point? It's Russ.

I'm glad he's getting vocal and getting out of his robot mode. Never trusted that. He's ambitious. Own it dude.

Pete's worn out his welcome. Players league, so let's go.

Cannot believe this town will say goodbye to:

Griffey
The Sonics
Randy Johnson
A-Rod
Russell Wilson

Because management must be obeyed.

Don't forget Ichiro

The difference there was that Ichiro was almost done at that point. It was clear he was in decline and wanted a shot at a championship. As far as I'm concerned, that's an example of the team doing right by a player.

J.K. Dobbins averaged 5.5 yards per carry against 8+ in the box. That is a hell of a statistic for a rookie RB that mostly only started half the season. Considering the general consensus is that the Ravens pretty much crapped the bed when it came to scheming passing plays and punishing folks for stacking the box, I honestly think that Dobbins is definitely the property to watch next season if they can get their passing attack improved even incrementally. And the addition of Williams and Martin seem to indicate that they are serious about making that improvement. Folks talk about how Duvernay will have a breakout season. I would have my eyes on Dobbins.

I would imagine that defenses playing against the Ravens are often having at least one of those 8-in-the-box defenders dedicated to mirroring Lamar and not part of the regular stop-the-RB run defense. So that might skew that "8+ in the box" stat somewhat, if you've got a guy down there who is to disregard the RB and follow Lamar through any possible read option handoffs.

That said, Dobbins was clearly more productive per touch than Gus Edwards, Mark Ingram, or Justice Hill. 6.0 yards per carry maintained over 134 carries is great in any context.

Having watched Wentz since he started I will say a good chunk of his sacks were his own damn fault.

*Legion* wrote:

I would imagine that defenses playing against the Ravens are often having at least one of those 8-in-the-box defenders dedicated to mirroring Lamar and not part of the regular stop-the-RB run defense. So that might skew that "8+ in the box" stat somewhat, if you've got a guy down there who is to disregard the RB and follow Lamar through any possible read option handoffs.

That said, Dobbins was clearly more productive per touch than Gus Edwards, Mark Ingram, or Justice Hill. 6.0 yards per carry maintained over 134 carries is great in any context.

Yup. I can see LJ having a significant effect on the running game for a lot of reasons. That said, if they actually get passing schemes and concepts that aren't completely counterproductive, that will force opposing defenses to play looser and respect the pass. If they give LJ man coverage and stack the box, a good OC should be able to punish them for it. I suspect there will be a lot of teams daring him to beat them with his arm early. It looks like he has the arm to do it if they can scheme better than they historically have.

Disney and the NFL reach new broadcast rights deal, including getting ABC back into the Super Bowl rotation. One can hope for a megacast on all the ESPN channels.

Yeah the multiple broadcasts with homer announcers that tell you what you want to hear, like college playoffs.

ESPN's Jeremy Fowler said that Deshaun Watson is ready to sit out games if Houston doesn't trade him.

We may be quickly getting into Trent Williams territory.

I still say two 1sts, a compensatory 3rd, and Garoppolo from the 49ers is the play for Houston. Sends him to the NFC, gets an immediate starting QB in return along with the draft capital, and it's one of the Watson-approved destinations.

*Legion* wrote:

ESPN's Jeremy Fowler said that Deshaun Watson is ready to sit out games if Houston doesn't trade him.

We may be quickly getting into Trent Williams territory.

I still say two 1sts, a compensatory 3rd, and Garoppolo from the 49ers is the play for Houston. Sends him to the NFC, gets an immediate starting QB in return along with the draft capital, and it's one of the Watson-approved destinations.

Baker, OBJ, Hunt, and a second for Watson.

San Francisco reportedly contacted Carolina to inquire about trading for Teddy Bridgewater.

If they can't swing a trade for someone like Watson, then hell yes, give me Teddy. He'd give the team a QB2 they can win with if Jimmy dies again, and he'd give Jimmy the kind of competition for QB1 that he hasn't had in SF.

Teddy's a play-within-the-scheme QB which Shanahan likes, so the interest isn't too surprising. The question is price, as other teams are apparently contacting Carolina too.

*Legion* wrote:

San Francisco reportedly contacted Carolina to inquire about trading for Teddy Bridgewater.

You're welcome to him.

That's no knock on Bridgewater. Carolina's management has p!ssed on him so much that it would be awkward as hell to put Teddy back under center in 2021, especially as the Panthers kick off the Mac Jones Error in Charlotte.

Whoops, era. Era. I meant era.

Speaking of Carolina, Football Outsiders is doing its regular "it's the offseason, so I guess we need content" routine of picking an all-star team from the last season for each division, starting with the NFC South. It's not surprisingly dominated by the Bucs, who had clearly had loads of players at their peak last year. There's a fair number of players from the Saints, and Atlanta has a few of their usual outstanding players like Julio Jones and Grady Jarrett. As for the Panthers?

Not a single player made the team.

0-27. Probably safe to guess if McCaffery had been healthy he'd have been able to make it on, but not a single player doesn't say a whole lot about that roster.

Come on, that's just bullsh*t. You'd at least need to include...

.... uhm...

Hmm.

Actually, I would probably argue Brian Burns over Shaq Barrett. Barrett had more QB hurries than anyone last year, but he converted fewer sacks and fewer QB hits than Burns did. And Barrett had about 20% more pass rush snaps to work with. It's close, and both were clearly in the league-wide top 20 edge rushers, but if it was Burns on the Super Bowl winning team and Barrett on the Matt Rhule Scream Team, Burns would be getting the nod from everyone.

Also, while I wouldn't argue Taylor Moton over Armstead or Wirfs, it's a near miss. Moton would have made some other division's top tackle list.

EDIT: Wait, they gave it to Ramczyk. They didn't even pick the best Saints tackle! Though we are talking two top tackles. Armstead and Ramczyk easily could have taken both spots.

Rat Boy wrote:

JJ Watt to Arizona.

I don't think anyone had that one, and I am convinced the Browns (and the remaining 30 teams) dodged a bullet there.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

Not a single player made the team.

Umm, you guys? Carolina opted out of the 2020 season. Yeah, that's what I keep telling myself.

Hypothetically, if the Panthers had played, you could make a case for Moton, Burns and Jeremy Chinn, who should have been NFC defensive rookie of the year. I mean Chase Young is pretty good and all, but I bet he can't do scoop-and-scores on back-to-back plays.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:
Rat Boy wrote:

JJ Watt to Arizona.

I don't think anyone had that one, and I am convinced the Browns (and the remaining 30 teams) dodged a bullet there.

I don't think so. He's an injury risk, obviously, but he's a guy you want on your team and still plays at a high level. The Browns very much could use a guy like him, though if they end up with Lavonte David instead then that's a huge net win for the Browns.

In years past the Browns probably could've landed him. They simply don't have the cap space for him atm. They've got that Baker extension coming up real soon.

You misspelled Russell / Watson. I have proposed reasonable trades in this thread.

garion333 wrote:

They've got that Baker extension coming up real soon.

Not if GM Iso has his way. I wonder how high in the draft you can get by offering Baker, OBJ, and a 2nd.

garion333 wrote:

The Browns very much could use a guy like him, though if they end up with Lavonte David instead

Listen, I think it'd be best for everyone if you just shut your dirty whore mouth, and realized Lavonte David should stay in Tampa forever. Easily the most beloved player of the post-Super Bowl team era, without question.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:
garion333 wrote:

The Browns very much could use a guy like him, though if they end up with Lavonte David instead

Listen, I think it'd be best for everyone if you just shut your dirty whore mouth, and realized Lavonte David should stay in Tampa forever. Easily the most beloved player of the post-Super Bowl team era, without question.

Don't worry, they'll re-sign Gronk and AB, letting David and Godwin walk. Brady will teach them about compensatory picks and convince them to keep his guys instead.

*Legion* wrote:
garion333 wrote:

They've got that Baker extension coming up real soon.

Not if GM Iso has his way. I wonder how high in the draft you can get by offering Baker, OBJ, and a 2nd.

UpToIsomorphism wrote:

You misspelled Russell / Watson. I have proposed reasonable trades in this thread.

It's clear that OBJ and Baker are bad together. Creative, but unrealistic.

OBJ will go to anyone willing to take his contract and the saved money will go to Baker's $30 mil/yr deal.

IMAGE(https://media2.giphy.com/media/7nTiW8rZymfJJLT8OE/giphy.gif)

One more thing on the Russ drama.

The guy is not loved in the way other stars in this town have been. He doesn't have the same cachet that Griffey had, or Randy Johnson or Shawn Kemp and certainly not Largent or Marshawn (people love Marshawn in a way I've not seen before; LOVE-LOVE).

I don't know how exactly to explain that but here are a couple things that make him different than your typical Pacific Northwesterner:

He's extremely religious and public about his religion, in a Tebow-esque way. PNW is highly unchurched and definitely private about religion.

He's got a huge, national stage-type ego. He very much wants to be on the Hollywood circuit. Seattle? Not so much (tho this is changing with all the Alphabet and Ambots in town).

He doesn't feel "real" with his coachspeak and interviews. He's always "on" and polished. I think this is why this town prefers stars like Randy Johnson and Marshawn that have more of a rebellious streak. Marshawn would never sit in Goodell's box at the SuperBowl. He'd sit in Snoop's.

Also he pitches Recovery Water.

Marshawn would be more likely to hang out in the stands getting people rowdy.

Wilson either doesn’t have a personality, like Brady, or has one so cultivated and hidden that it doesn’t matter. PNW (Washington, Portland, and BC) still has some grunge sensibilities. Quirkiness, rough around the edges, an attitude have to come with the success and production. Granted, with enough failures and time that will pass and anyone that wins will eventually be a superstar up here.

Vector wrote:

Marshawn would be more likely to hang out in the stands getting people rowdy.

Wilson either doesn’t have a personality, like Brady, or has one so cultivated and hidden that it doesn’t matter. PNW (Washington, Portland, and BC) still has some grunge sensibilities. Quirkiness, rough around the edges, an attitude have to come with the success and production. Granted, with enough failures and time that will pass and anyone that wins will eventually be a superstar up here.

Wilson has done a very good job protecting his brand. It is unfortunately something black celebrities (particularly in very conservative industries like the NFL) have to do a lot more than white ones. As a QB who already gets a lot of attention for his success, he is very wise avoiding controversy. America is not kind to athletes of color with any personality at all.

Paleocon wrote:
Vector wrote:

Marshawn would be more likely to hang out in the stands getting people rowdy.

Wilson either doesn’t have a personality, like Brady, or has one so cultivated and hidden that it doesn’t matter. PNW (Washington, Portland, and BC) still has some grunge sensibilities. Quirkiness, rough around the edges, an attitude have to come with the success and production. Granted, with enough failures and time that will pass and anyone that wins will eventually be a superstar up here.

Wilson has done a very good job protecting his brand. It is unfortunately something black celebrities (particularly in very conservative industries like the NFL) have to do a lot more than white ones. As a QB who already gets a lot of attention for his success, he is very wise avoiding controversy. America is not kind to athletes of color with any personality at all.

100% but he also didn't have to do ipod commercials with Macklemore unless that's part of the identity he wants out there. On a national level, it's extremely smart. On a purely local level, it doesn't quite fit.

But Macklemore is from Washington and likes thrift shops!!!

MACKLEMORE SSSSSUUUUCCCCKKKKSSSSS