Diablo III Catch-All 2.0

Oh wow, D2R looks sexy.

Main thing I wonder is how the metagame will work. Will late-game runes still be so rare that you could play for years and never see one? Will trades still happen via people making/searching for online games with the items in the title? And so forth.

In one of the gameplay snippets, on the create character screen there was a "Season" button, so probably some kind of D3-style thing there.

OTOH I have a feeling that after all this time, a completely faithful conversion will feel very vanilla and be hard to go back to. WoW Classic was in the same boat for me - I tried it and the nostalgia was real, but after the first few minutes I just sat there thinking of all the no-brainer QoL improvements it was missing.

fangblackbone wrote:

The classes in d4 are not gender locked. (I believe I've seen footage of female barbarians and druids) They state in the d4 reveal that rogues can be from the sister of the sightless eye and also from some other regions/clans. So I would assume male rogues are not from the sister of the sightless eye.

Cool, thanks!

Diablo 2: Resurrected looks great as well! Love that they didn't sway from the creepy atmosphere.

fenomas wrote:

Main thing I wonder is how the metagame will work. Will late-game runes still be so rare that you could play for years and never see one? Will trades still happen via people making/searching for online games with the items in the title? And so forth.

So far the answer seems to be yes.

fenomas wrote:

In one of the gameplay snippets, on the create character screen there was a "Season" button, so probably some kind of D3-style thing there.

Maybe they renamed Ladder, though it would be weird.

Shadout wrote:

So far the answer seems to be yes.

In that case I hope they go all-out on the "faithfulness" axis and keep all the item dupe bugs.

Ladders were 6 months long. They said in the deep dive they were going to make them like seasons and their shorter 3 month durations.

The other crazy thing is that they are converting the armor looks for each class (as well as the frame locked animations to match the 2d version) So we won't get cosmetic changes that represent gloves or boots changes but we will get detailed 3d models of the d2 armor looks and they look astounding. (the amazon's gold plate in particular is gorgeous) I do find it funny that the real time 3d models in the remaster have as many or more polys as the high poly source for the 2d sprites in the original game.

Grenn wrote:
fangblackbone wrote:

$40 though :(

I acquired a pirated copy of Diablo 2 for free the first time I played it. I'll pay the $40.

I wasn't totally broke in college, but the price for Diablo 2 put me off, so even though I loved the first one, I never played D2.

Years later people make it sound like D1 was just a proof of concept, and D2 was a revolutionary classic.

D1 did some things better. Atmospheric dungeon crawler in a way D2 cant really compete with imo. But otherwise, yes, it is not even close.

Did they say anything else in the deep dive about how they'll approach meta-level problems/fixes? Duping, botting, maphacks, etc?

I mean D2 was a classic, but unless you're fully single player those things are the elephants in the room.

I've only played D3, never tried D1/2. Can anyone give a quick rundown on the substantive differences between D2 and D3?

I love D3, but what little I've heard about D2 tends to be mainly people raving about how hardcore it was, which doesn't sound promising. I've generally found that reboots that try to be faithful to old games generally come across as being aimed mainly at nostalgic grognards and tend to be uninteresting to fans of later games. But as I said, I know very little about D2 specifically, so I'm willing to give it a hearing.

CaptainCrowbar wrote:

I've only played D3, never tried D1/2. Can anyone give a quick rundown on the substantive differences between D2 and D3?

It depends how far zoomed in you are. Moment to moment, D2 and D3 are essentially the same game - you're running around fighting the same sort of monsters with the same sort of abilities. Zone to zone they're still similar, D2 was just more straightforward (less variation, fewer bosses, no random events, only a handful of fixed quests).

Character to character, way more differences - D2 had a lot more build variation, and was generally more free-wheeling. E.g. most items and sets could be used by any class, and some items would let a character use skills from other classes, which opened a lot of crazy hybrid specs. Also a lot more ways of customizing items, crafting, more use of hirelings. OTOH in D2 you had fixed pools of stat and ability points, and there were no (later: limited) respecs, so normally to try a different build you made a new character.

Finally at the meta-game level there are basically no similarities. In D2 all items were tradeable (and in multiplayer they went to whoever clicked first). And after the final boss there were no particular game challenges, so the endgame was largely about farming rare drops - which was dominated by botting, duping, and hacks (e.g. to pick up rare items instantly before anyone can click on them).

I can’t get over how excited I am for the rogue now in D4! I love playing rogue/thief types and the style is exactly what I was hoping for skill wise and aesthetics.

whispa wrote:

I can’t get over how excited I am for the rogue now in D4! I love playing rogue/thief types and the style is exactly what I was hoping for skill wise and aesthetics.

Same here. It's a horribly long wait for D4.

I think my favorite thing about D4 is the "eff it, just let them equip all the weapons" approach. They're really leaning into it with the Barbarian, but the Rogue also has a ranged weapon and two dagger equipped at the same time and swaps between them. I dig the aesthetic, and I also like the idea of my abilities changing priority depending on which slot has the best weapon at the moment.

Vargen wrote:

I think my favorite thing about D4 is the "eff it, just let them equip all the weapons" approach. They're really leaning into it with the Barbarian, but the Rogue also has a ranged weapon and two dagger equipped at the same time and swaps between them. I dig the aesthetic, and I also like the idea of my abilities changing priority depending on which slot has the best weapon at the moment.

That's a great point as well! The ability to use melee as a demon hunter in D3 without the animations etc was a bummer. This will allow us more flexibility!

Diablo 1 - 3 classes that had different stat caps that max long before you hit max level 50. Each class also favored certain weapon types in that they had faster attack speeds than other classes. Every class had access to all spells that were ranked up by find and reading the corresponding spell books. The magic stat requirement for reading a spell book went up every spell level so classes other than the mage had to stack +magic gear in order to read the higher rank books. The game had 16 areas broken up into four sections that had level requirements to access. The game practically invented newgame+ and newgame++ There were no hit point bars so you just had to guess how many attacks a certain monster would take. For some bosses, this was in the many dozens.

Diablo 2 - 7 classes (2 of which were in the expansion) that had no stat caps. The max level was 99 and you earned 5 stat points per level with a few more as quest rewards. Like D1 everyone used mana as a resource but stat points raised these differently for each class. Each class had 3 unique skill trees and earned 1 point per level. Each skill tree had 10(?) skills that were ranked up by skill points and had a cap at 20 points. Some skills were prerequisites to others in the tree requiring one point in order to access the following skill. Skills were only accessible at certain character levels which usually meant they were more powerful but there were many exceptions where lower skills were godly and some skills only needed a few points to work and any other points put in were wasted. (skill points were a precious commodity) D2 had more equipment slots to put more stat laden equipment in. They had more affixes and prefixes than D1 and also introduced sockets, gems and charms. The latter allowed you to fill your inventory with even more magic affix and prefix items at the cost of carrying space. +skill items were heavily favored/required for most classes at the highest levels and difficulties. D2 had 5 much larger acts with side quest areas, bosses and dungeons. An unlockable waypoints system was created for fast travel between each act and several areas within. D2 also introduced the hireling system that you could equip. Act 1-3 had the rogue, fighter and mage from D1 as the hirelings and each had 3 types so you had 9 to choose from. The expansion introduced a barbarian as a hireling. Bosses and elites did 10x damage to hirelings (and summons IIRC) so it was hard to keep them alive.

CaptainCrowbar wrote:

I've only played D3, never tried D1/2. Can anyone give a quick rundown on the substantive differences between D2 and D3?

My clashes with D3 compared to D2 were across the board.

D3, visually, was more soft and vibrant. I think Saturday morning cartoon. D2 leaned rather towards grit and shadow. I think creeping horror.

Neither would be considered as the pinnacle of storytelling. Still, I found D2 a more interesting tale which unfolded organically. The pieces seemed to fall into place at the right moments. The pacing was good. I could never determine if D3 was too slow, too fast, or if it was in fact standing still. I lost track. I found little intrigue. Most recollection faded.

In relation to gameplay - combat, movement, enemy type, encounter design - they're similar whilst not quite the same. The differences are in build variety, build sustainability, and respec availability. I couldn't settle with a build in D3! I assumed that as the game was created with respec in mind that it was integral to efficiency, to progress, to mileage. Should I be changing things up? When? Is this the height of what this ability becomes? Where as D2 was locked in. You thought carefully, perhaps planned ahead, and committed to working with what was at hand to overcome per a specific role, rather than as a chameleon who changed per encounter, or per zone. The game was created that way. No uncertainty. I also gel rather well with creating characters from the ground up, to grow into their role through the opening sections. It's strange to hop around with powered up abilities in later sections. (I've grown accustomed as it has became more widespread throughout gaming. I've even appreciated it on occasion. D3 did not benefit as such.)

I have a fondness for the lore, the areas, the enemies, the bosses, let alone the classes and their abilities, from D2. I have a lot less fondness for D3, from that which managed to form a lasting impression. The Crusader? Belial? I've got nothing else. No lore. No areas. No enemies.

I'd wager much is down to which came first. If D3 were my introduction I'd probably be higher on it, as it'd have had no peers, so to speak. Everything would compare to it rather than vice versa. I don't doubt that many D3 graduates may well bounce off of D2R. I'm interested to return and delve deeper myself.

It's mostly subjective. Which flavour ice cream do you like? Diablo Double Choc? Diablo Mint Chip?

Reaper of Souls had a story that was much more in line with D1/D2. Vanilla D3 tried to do what D2/D1 did but meandered and introduced characters/villains that were cool but were just shoe horned into the story.

Prior Diablo games were slow, escalating reveals with a big twist at the end. D3's twist was predictable from a few minutes in. D3 tried to weave Leah's and Tyrael's plots together but they ended up distracting from one another rather than contributing to the whole.

RnRClown wrote:

Where as D2 was locked in. You thought carefully, perhaps planned ahead, and committed to working with what was at hand to overcome per a specific role, rather than as a chameleon who changed per encounter, or per zone. The game was created that way. No uncertainty. I also gel rather well with creating characters from the ground up, to grow into their role through the opening sections. It's strange to hop around with powered up abilities in later sections.

Yeah, this is strongly my view as well. Especially I miss the "working with what you have" aspect.

At least it sounds like Blizzard has somewhat turned around on this, as they claim D4 will have some kind of respec cost.

That said, the complete lack of respeccing in D2 was too much in the opposite direction. In more recent patches (which I guess means like 10 years ago...) they added a respec option to D2 however, so that will also be around in D2R.

CaptainCrowbar wrote:

I love D3, but what little I've heard about D2 tends to be mainly people raving about how hardcore it was, which doesn't sound promising.

I depends on what one means by hardcore.
In many ways Diablo 2 is an easier game than Diablo 3. Its difficulty kinda ends at Torment 16 (if trying to compare to current D3, as hard as it might be). No endlessly scaling GRifts.
People have gone through D2 without using items for example.
Gameplay is slower, more deliberate.
However, since there are only 3 difficulties, you also cant just tune down the difficulty a bit to get something you can steamroll. Each difficulty is a big jump.

Getting items is way slower than in D3. Unless you trade, there are items you will likley never ever find in D2. Ever. But items also matter a lot less, so you dont really need to farm for those items. You can play just fine with some decent rare items.
And the respec limitations means you might need more of a plan, or at least be a little careful, when selecting skill points (though again, in the patch D2R will use, you get 3 respecs for free, and can potentially get endless amounts of respecs in end-game).

fenomas wrote:

Did they say anything else in the deep dive about how they'll approach meta-level problems/fixes? Duping, botting, maphacks, etc?

They claim modern battle.net will make it easier to stop cheats.
Time will tell on that one. Bots certainly still exist in WoW and Diablo 3. And so does map hack.
At least duping is a rare thing in those.

Moo moo moo, moo moo.

Why do I mostly remember replaying the Cow Level of Diablo II, again and again.
Was I farming for something? My old man brain does not recall.

I just remember the Moos....

D3's next season looks fantastic.
Loving the changes to the Firebird set and Rathma set.
Plus the changes to the companions sound awesome!

Permanent changes to companions. That's the most insane part.

When does the new season start? I began playing this on switch this week but if this season is just about to end maybe it worth while not jumping right onto the season despite it being my preferred way to play

Rave wrote:

When does the new season start? I began playing this on switch this week but if this season is just about to end maybe it worth while not jumping right onto the season despite it being my preferred way to play

It'll still be at least a month away. PTR is Thursday 25th. 2 Week run time. Then, you normally have a week downtime, then they release it. More than enough time to complete the current season now.

As for next season, should be interesting. Perma Nems and FoT would be amazing as well as having avarice on your companion. The nerf to DH piercing sucks the big one though :/

I like the perma revives on rathma

And firebirds seems like it is going to be a great death wish + etched sigil set! (you'd use the fire rune on energy twisters)

Can't wait for the PTR (aside from the Outriders demo releasing tomorrow)

I kinda hope the Follower Revival is supposed to be a testing ground for D4.
But it certainly is long overdue that they try to fix the followers. They should always have had all item slots.

They really might have managed me to go back to D3.

As someone who stopped playing Diablo 3 about 18 months after Reaper of Souls launched, what would you say are the most impactful changes since then?

kergguz wrote:

As someone who stopped playing Diablo 3 about 18 months after Reaper of Souls launched, what would you say are the most impactful changes since then?

When did the console port features make their way back to the PC game? Those were a huge part of what made the game fun to re-play. All of a sudden the best way to get loot was to play the game, not buy or trade for it.

The addition of seasons has been nice; the periodic fresh starts have can give a good excuse to dip back in when the mood strikes. The thing that impacts gameplay the most is each season has a bunch of Achievement-like goals to pursue, and doing so will reward you with one of the full 6-piece class armor sets. That lets you play with the high-end builds much more quickly than you'd be able to otherwise.

I think the short answer is, more items, builds, and variation. Nowadays there are a lot of ways to build a character, mix sets, and so on. But it's not due to any one big change, they've just been adding items gradually every patch, and gradually getting rid of all the meh legendaries that had no place in any build.

That, and the overall flow makes more sense - bounties, rifts, set dungeons for achievements, etc. But again it's not any one change, just tweaks so that each activity has its spot in the overall scheme of things.

-Each class has a new powerful set is a big change. The last classes got their new set some months ago.
Pretty sweeping and powerful legendary changes that let you push higher GR's with more diverse builds. Builds that supposedly suck can push GR 110 solo. (the powerful ones can do GR 150 solo in less than 8 minutes)
-Auto pickup for gold, blood shards and crafting mats. Well gold and shards you can run over to pick up but mats you just need to click on one and it gathers all of that type in a large radius.
-Augments that sacrifice high level legendary gems for more main stat on your equipment.
-They have added new areas on the adventure map a couple of times. Some of the new zones are like mixed up mother goose where they start as one environment type and can switch to 2-3 more as you explore.
-They added another tier of item quality Primal. It is basically the same as an ancient legendary but has all its stats maxed.
-More Torment levels. The max Torment levels is now 16! It helps out so much when building higher GR characters.
If it has been that long since you played, you will see a big power jump in your characters. Characters that topped out at GR 60-70 are now topping out at GR 100+

fangblackbone wrote:

If it has been that long since you played, you will see a big power jump in your characters. Characters that topped out at GR 60-70 are now topping out at GR 100+

Did Greater Rifts even exist 18 months after Reaper of Souls? I thought they came along after the console release features got ported back to the PC, but I'm a bit fuzzy on the timeline there.