[Discussion] Impeachment, Legacy, and Discussion of Individual 45

Though noted as discussion, news, debate, and all things related to events that occurred during the Tr*mp administration can go here. The scope of this thread is specific to the former administration and it's hangers-on in the aftermath of the shift in power for the United States and impacted areas worldwide.

TheGameguru wrote:

And education you couldn't be more wrong.. take a look at any feedback on Black websites about the harassment, double standards, and overall treatment in private schools where black people make up less than 1% of the students and faculty. .

So which would you rather be: a wealthy black person who will face harassment and double standards at prestigious, expensive private institutions, or a poor white person who can't afford to be there in the first place?

Depends what you value more, I suppose. You could answer either way and I wouldn't call you wrong.

The point remains that there's no simple, objective apples-to-apples measure of who is more privileged overall.

And what would be the utility of such a measure if we had it? Surely our energy is better spent correcting inequality where we find it than worrying about who has it worse than whom.

hbi2k wrote:

So which would you rather be: a wealthy black person who will face harassment and double standards, or a poor white person who can't afford to be there in the first place?

Depends what you value more, I suppose. You could answer either way and I wouldn't call you wrong.

The point remains that there's no simple, objective apples-to-apples measure of who is more privileged overall.

And what would be the utility of such a measure if we had it? Surely our energy is better spent correcting inequality where we find it than worrying about who has it worse than whom.

You seem to be saying

1: We can't quantify privilege.
2: We should correct inequalities of privilege.

Do you see the problem with that?

Jonman wrote:

You seem to be saying

1: We can't quantify privilege.
2: We should correct inequalities of privilege.

Do you see the problem with that?

No. I am saying that there are many ways of measuring privilege, and they don't often lend themselves to easy comparison. There's no standard conversion rate by which we can figure out how many instances of racially-motivated harassment are equal to an extra $10k of yearly income.

I would like it if the wealthy black person didn't face harassment. I would like it if the poor white person could afford higher education or decent medical care without going deep into debt.

I don't particularly need to know who has it worse by some sort of objective, non-context-dependent metric (which doesn't actually exist) in order to work toward making both their situations better. It's not a zero-sum game.

Chris Rock said it best (NSFW):

~mod~
The current discussion on white priviledge is way OT for this thread. Maybe move it to a different thread if you want to talk about it.
mudbunny

Edit: Deleting this post; it was ninja'd by the moderator request to change the subject.

EDIT - wrote too long a post before seeing admin comment. So I’ll just say this - even today I doubt the financial sector would give Oprah, Jordan or Beyoncé a second chance if they bankrupted an entire city.

~mod~
Me saying "no further discussion" on a topic means no further discussion. Drive-by potshots at others being included in that ban is not something I should have had to expressly include in my comment.

Further comments, potshots or infighting based on topics other than the impeachment **will** get this thread locked. It may also result in mod-imposed vacations from D&D should people continue to ignore mod directions to Stay. On. Topic.
mudbunny

OG_slinger wrote:

But even last year Trump's endorsement wasn't enough to guarantee Republican candidates victory. I don't see him having a greater ability to do so in two or four years and Trump's escalating legal problems are likely to make some Republican candidates run away from him.

I dont think a Trump endorsement will help any republican candidates in an actual election, but I do think he could affect who wins their primaries, potentially giving the Democrat they'd face a better shot at winning (either by having them run against a nut job or by getting his followers to boycott the traditional Republican they lost against) If Trump does go off and make his own party they'd definitely become spoiler candidates, splitting the Republican vote and giving Dem candidates an easier win.

Stengah wrote:

I dont think a Trump endorsement will help any republican candidates in an actual election, but I do think he could affect who wins their primaries, potentially giving the Democrat they'd face a better shot at winning (either by having them run against a nut job or by getting his followers to boycott the traditional Republican they lost against) If Trump does go off and make his own party they'd definitely become spoiler candidates, splitting the Republican vote and giving Dem candidates an easier win.

My wife and I were discussing this very same point last night and came to the same conclusions.

Cleaning up the Capitol after 1/6 will cost over $30 million.

That means anyone arrested should have multiple destruction of government property charges tacked on to their existing charges. Destroying anything worth over $100 is punishable by fines up to $250,000 and ten years in prison.

OG_slinger wrote:

Cleaning up the Capitol after 1/6 will cost over $30 million.

That means anyone arrested should have multiple destruction of government property charges tacked on to their existing charges. Destroying anything worth over $100 is punishable by fines up to $250,000 and ten years in prison.

I suspect a large part of that will be replacing the entire IT infrastructure as we have already established that it has been compromised by the theft of secure equipment. If it isn't, it sure as sh*t should be factored in.

Paleocon wrote:

I suspect a large part of that will be replacing the entire IT infrastructure as we have already established that it has been compromised by the theft of secure equipment. If it isn't, it sure as sh*t should be factored in.

That's just the price tag for the physical damage and destruction. The IT bill will probably be much larger.

Steve Bannon investigation gains steam as Manhattan prosecutors subpoena financial records

CNN wrote:

The Manhattan district attorney's office has subpoenaed financial records related to Steve Bannon's crowd-funding border-wall effort, signaling that its criminal investigation into former President Donald Trump's chief strategist is advancing, according to people familiar with the matter.

Prosecutors sent the subpoenas after Trump pardoned Bannon in late January for federal conspiracy crimes tied to the southern border-wall project, making Bannon among the Trump world figures -- including the former president -- subjects of criminal investigations by Manhattan district attorney Cyrus Vance.

The grand jury subpoenas were sent to Wells Fargo, one of the financial institutions that handled some of the accounts used in the fundraising effort, and to GoFundMe, the crowdfunding platform where Bannon's project, "We Build the Wall," once operated, the people said.

The state grand jury investigation revives the possibility that Bannon, the conservative and outspoken political strategist, could face state criminal charges after shedding the federal case last month.

In addition to the criminal investigation, the New Jersey attorney general's office has launched a civil inquiry into We Build the Wall. In September, the New Jersey Division of Consumer Affairs subpoenaed We Build the Wall for documents seeking a wide range of records, according to court filings.

I read a headline that the NY DA now has trump's tax returns. Not sure what, how much, or which shell copies he has. Here is hoping the grift really is right there in red ink.

Hobear wrote:

I read a headline that the NY DA now has trump's tax returns. Not sure what, how much, or which shell copies he has. Here is hoping the grift really is right there in red ink.

"millions of pages", so don't expect any answers soon.

There will be a lot in there (like the massive losses he took a while ago cancelling taxes for a long time) that is stuff that is PERFECTLY LEGAL.

Oh I am under no illusions. This will be long and debated. But I had hoped some moron left the sticky of evidence on a photocopy.

I doubt there's a smoking gun there that could be recognized as such by a layman, just because business tax law (and, let's get real, taxes in general) is so arcane.

As shady as Trump is, they'll find something to nail his hide to the wall.

I thought one of his main forms of fraud was pretty straight forward.
He has a building worth $75 million. He tells the IRS it's worth $40-50 million for tax purposes.
He tells investors, leasers, etc. the property is worth $100 million.

And...you're not supposed to do that?

Roo wrote:

I thought one of his main forms of fraud was pretty straight forward.
He has a building worth $75 million. He tells the IRS it's worth $40-50 million for tax purposes.
He tells investors, leasers, etc. the property is worth $100 million.

And...you're not supposed to do that?

Especially when your investors in Saudi Arabia and Russia pay for $80 million of that building in hopes for favors from a sitting US President.

Trish Regan:

Good luck getting future billionaires to run for President.

There's so much to unpack here.

Not a bad thing by any stretch...

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Trish Regan:

Good luck getting future billionaires to run for President.

There's so much to unpack here.

*WillyWonkaNo.gif*

Good luck getting people pretending to be billionaires to run, she means.

I bet Bill Gates' tax returns being released would have just about zero consequences. It's only a problem when you're a fraud, con man (con person?), grifter, or all of the above.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Trish Regan:

Good luck getting future billionaires to run for President.

There's so much to unpack here.

We prefer to be governed by millionaires, thanks!

That's a little on the nose for modern evangelicals.

Just saw a Trump 2024 sign. I need a Forget Me Now.