[Discussion] Impeachment, Legacy, and Discussion of Individual 45

Though noted as discussion, news, debate, and all things related to events that occurred during the Tr*mp administration can go here. The scope of this thread is specific to the former administration and it's hangers-on in the aftermath of the shift in power for the United States and impacted areas worldwide.

If T. loses his impeachment trial does he also lose his secret service protection?

That is the nicest letter directly calling someone a liar that I've ever read.

No way he shows up. He will be advised that Testifying would be a disaster for him and he would likely get Tom Cruised into saying the quiet part out loud and making it slightly harder for all the R’s to acquit him.

Trump spokesperson Jason Miller said "The President will not testify in an unconstitutional proceeding."

You know you can trust Miller because he had an affair with A.J. Delgado, a Trump campaign/transition staffer, and knocked her up while he was also working on Trump's campaign/transition. Their child was born six months after he had a child with his then wife.

That's a much better outcome than what happened to the adult dancer he got pregnant during another affair he had in 2012. Then he crushed up an abortion pill, mixed it into a smoothie, and gave it to her. The child was lost and the woman almost died.

Miller was rehired by Trump for his 2020 campaign and paid $35,000 a month. His salary was routed through a company he set up so it would be harder for Delgado to prove his income and it helped him dodge $3,000 a month in child support payments.

I bring these things up mostly because it's just so gd insane about the appalling quality of people Trump *repeatedly* surrounds himself with.

OG_slinger wrote:

Trump spokesperson Jason Miller said "The President will not testify in an unconstitutional proceeding."

You know you can trust Miller because he had an affair with A.J. Delgado, a Trump campaign/transition staffer, and knocked her up while he was also working on Trump's campaign/transition. Their child was born six months after he had a child with his then wife.

That's a much better outcome than what happened to the adult dancer he got pregnant during another affair he had in 2012. Then he crushed up an abortion pill, mixed it into a smoothie, and gave it to her. The child was lost and the woman almost died.

Miller was rehired by Trump for his 2020 campaign and paid $35,000 a month. His salary was routed through a company he set up so it would be harder for Delgado to prove his income and it helped him dodge $3,000 a month in child support payments.

I bring these things up mostly because it's just so gd insane about the appalling quality of people Trump *repeatedly* surrounds himself with.

Only the best people...

How is he allowed to walk free, let alone practice law?

That's an interesting hypothetical. Not sure where's he's getting his information about Biden's thoughts on unconstitutional proceedings.

Did he happen to say anything about what the former President plans to do about the constitutional proceeding at which his testimony has been requested?

Nevin73 wrote:

How is he allowed to walk free, let alone practice law?

Without any prior knowledge of the person or situation, I’m guessing he was not convicted of anything. Maybe not even charged. I’ll go look it up.

I mostly lurk here in P&C, but I have to say: my job gives me reason to review a lot of criminal court documentation, and the biggest disconnect I see between the discourse here and reality is that criminal convictions require proving beyond reasonable doubt, and that people are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The court of public opinion is a different story of course, but that’s not what legal decisions are based upon.

Edit: not to say I don’t believe victims, but from what I just read, the actual woman involved in the 2012 incident hasn’t actually come forward on her own behalf? That kind of hearsay doesn’t get people disbarred or locked up.

Of course he did...Donald Trump’s Business Sought A Stake In Parler Before He Would Join

The Trump Organization negotiated on behalf of then-president Donald Trump to make Parler his primary social network, but it had a condition: an ownership stake in return for joining, according to documents and four people familiar with the conversations. The deal was never finalized, but legal experts said the discussions alone, which occurred while Trump was still in office, raise legal concerns with regards to anti-bribery laws.

Talks between members of Trump’s campaign and Parler about Trump’s potential involvement began last summer, and were revisited in November by the Trump Organization after Trump lost the 2020 election to the Democratic nominee and current president, Joe Biden. Documents seen by BuzzFeed News show that Parler offered the Trump Organization a 40% stake in the company. It is unclear as to what extent the former president was involved with the discussions.

Four sources told BuzzFeed News that Parscale and Trump campaign lawyer Alex Cannon met with Parler CEO John Matze and shareholders Dan Bongino and Jeffrey Wernick at Trump’s Florida club Mar-a-Lago in June 2020 to discuss the idea. But the White House counsel’s office soon put a stop to the talks, one person with knowledge of the discussions said, ruling that such a deal while Trump was president would violate ethics rules.

Gee, ya think?

Discussions were revived in the weeks following the election, according to two people involved, but the deal fell apart after the Capitol invasion.

Dems call defense 'without merit'; Trump blasts impeachment as ‘political theater' - live updates

I mostly posted this because I am shocked *not at all shocked* that the A-hole who would force Lafayette Square and St. John's cleared so he could hold a Bible would act like "political theater" is bad.

He started his "career" ridding down an escalator as political theater and ended with theater as well.

Of course maybe he didn't mean it as a negative. Maybe he was just happy that others are doing the theater thing.

I'm kind of hoping that they do drag this out and end up airing out all sorts of dirty laundry, because that's the kind of national ritual I think the country needs. At the very least, rushing it and trying to avoid calling witnesses seems like a poor strategic choice.

As a Canadian, I kinda want to see the GoP have their noses rubbed in the dog sh*t that is their political vision for the USA the way we used to rub dogs noses in sh*t.

Maybe we will finally get to see the health care plan

lunchbox12682 wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Trump spokesperson Jason Miller said "The President will not testify in an unconstitutional proceeding."

You know you can trust Miller because he had an affair with A.J. Delgado, a Trump campaign/transition staffer, and knocked her up while he was also working on Trump's campaign/transition. Their child was born six months after he had a child with his then wife.

That's a much better outcome than what happened to the adult dancer he got pregnant during another affair he had in 2012. Then he crushed up an abortion pill, mixed it into a smoothie, and gave it to her. The child was lost and the woman almost died.

Miller was rehired by Trump for his 2020 campaign and paid $35,000 a month. His salary was routed through a company he set up so it would be harder for Delgado to prove his income and it helped him dodge $3,000 a month in child support payments.

I bring these things up mostly because it's just so gd insane about the appalling quality of people Trump *repeatedly* surrounds himself with.

Only the best people...

Trump doesn't hire them for their expertise, but for their desperation. It's part of his wannabe mob boss thing. He's willing to hire people like them and help them avoid whatever consequences they're facing in exchange for complete loyalty and obedience. The second they won't do whatever Trump wants them to or he thinks they aren't giving him 110%, he'll stop protecting them and deny he ever was. He uses illegal or unethical methods of paying them as another way to ensure loyalty even after he drops them. They know that they'll get in trouble for the shady dealings long before he does, so they don't turn on him even after he cuts them loose. They know that once they do, it'll expose them too and much of what he paid them will likely be seized.

Stengah wrote:

Individual 1 doesn't hire them for their expertise, but for their desperation. It's part of his wannabe mob boss thing. He's willing to hire people like them and help them avoid whatever consequences they're facing in exchange for complete loyalty and obedience. The second they won't do whatever Individual 1 wants them to or he thinks they aren't giving him 110%, he'll stop protecting them and deny he ever was. He uses illegal or unethical methods of paying them as another way to ensure loyalty even after he drops them. They know that they'll get in trouble for the shady dealings long before he does, so they don't turn on him even after he cuts them loose. They know that once they do, it'll expose them too and much of what he paid them will likely be seized.

Then why does anyone -- and I mean literally anyone -- work with him? Is it just blindness-inducing charisma?*

Spoiler:

blleeeuurrrrraaauuurrrrrrrrgghhh

They want in on the con and overestimate their abilities. It's not like he's attracting otherwise upstanding people that only become corrupt once they work for him. He finds already sh*tty people and tells them they can be as sh*tty as they want to be so long as they do what he wants them to. They don't have to pretend to have morals or be principled like they would if they were working for someone who cared about his (or their) reputation.

I on January 30th wrote:

They could just sit on their hands and do nothing while Trump gets acquitted anyway.

Based on what Castor's been saying so far, everyone's wishing that the Trump team actually did nothing.

God that is chilling. I guess to everyone who isn't 90% of Republicans that is.

Trump's attorneys are making Clinton's "What the definition of is is" look like baby talk...

Rat Boy wrote:
I on January 30th wrote:

They could just sit on their hands and do nothing while Trump gets acquitted anyway.

Based on what Castor's been saying so far, everyone's wishing that the Trump team actually did nothing.

Like Trump.

Why doesn't he think about all the money he saved by having his more expensive (and qualified) lawyers quit on him after he nickel and dimed them?

Thanks for linking that. I was hoping to be able to see it.

RawkGWJ wrote:

Thanks for linking that. I was hoping to be able to see it.

I'd like to see the video of the Republican senators who spent that 13 minutes looking at their papers and couldn't watch a moment of it. And then play highlights of that in November 2022...

It looks like even the WP has an article about the plight of the down on your luck Trumpanzee. Looks like most of the rioters had some sort of financial trouble.

I own and operate a small business in a rough neighborhood in inner city Baltimore. And I see entire communities struck with the kind of generational poverty that reminds us that our separation from the Third World is mostly just marketing. These folks are every bit as desperate every single day as any of those Capitol rioters were on the worst days of their lives. They just happen to be black, poor, and overpoliced. They also don't murder federal officers or try to assassinate the vice president.

So though we might be tempted to shed a single tear for the plight of the down on their luck Trumpanzee, I say f*ck em. I hope they all get charged with felony murder of a federal officer and get the customary punishment for it.

NYT: Georgia Prosecutors Open Criminal Investigation of Trump Phone Call
State officials are being instructed to preserve documents related to “attempts to influence” the Georgia election, including a call in which former President Donald J. Trump asked an elections official to “find” votes.

ATLANTA — Prosecutors in Fulton County have initiated a criminal investigation into former President Donald J. Trump’s attempts to overturn Georgia’s election results, including a phone call he made to Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in which Mr. Trump pressured him to “find” enough votes to help him reverse his loss.

On Wednesday, Fani Willis, the recently elected Democratic prosecutor in Fulton County, sent a letter to numerous officials in state government, including Mr. Raffensperger, requesting that they preserve documents related to “an investigation into attempts to influence the administration of the 2020 Georgia General Election.”

While the letter does not mention Mr. Trump by name, it is related to his intervention in Georgia’s election, according to a state official with knowledge of the matter. A copy of the letter was obtained by The New York Times.

“This investigation includes, but is not limited to, potential violations of Georgia law prohibiting the solicitation of election fraud, the making of false statements to state and local governmental bodies, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office and any involvement in violence or threats related to the election’s administration,” the letter states.

Proud Boy charged in insurrection blasts Trump's 'deception' in new court filing

Politico wrote:

One of the Proud Boys arrested for participating in the Jan. 6 insurrection at the Capitol told a court Wednesday that he was duped by President Donald Trump's "deception" and "acted out of the delusional belief" that he was responding patriotically to the commander in chief.

Dominic Pezzola, who was indicted last month and charged with conspiracy, urged a federal court to grant his release pending trial, emphasizing that his involvement in the Proud Boys was recent and minimal and that he has no other criminal history. But the most notable part of Pezzola's 15-page motion for leniency was his thorough repudiation of Trump.

"[D]efendant acted out of the delusional belief that he was a 'patriot' protecting his country ... He was responding to the entreaties of the-then commander in chief, President Trump," Pezzola's lawyer argued in the filing. "The President maintained that the election had been stolen and it was the duty of loyal citizens to 'stop the steal.' Admittedly there was no rational basis for the claim, but it is apparent defendant was one of millions of Americans who were misled by the President’s deception."

Pretty insane that as Senate Republicans are doing the whole three wise monkey thing when it comes to Trump the people who were at the center of the insurrection are basically shouting that they did what they did because Trump told them to.

OG_slinger wrote:

Pretty insane that as Senate Republicans are doing the whole three wise monkey thing when it comes to Trump the people who were at the center of the insurrection are basically shouting that they did what they did because Trump told them to.

Thay aynt lion

Paleocon wrote:

It looks like even the WP has an article about the plight of the down on your luck Trumpanzee. Looks like most of the rioters had some sort of financial trouble.

I own and operate a small business in a rough neighborhood in inner city Baltimore. And I see entire communities struck with the kind of generational poverty that reminds us that our separation from the Third World is mostly just marketing. These folks are every bit as desperate every single day as any of those Capitol rioters were on the worst days of their lives. They just happen to be black, poor, and overpoliced. They also don't murder federal officers or try to assassinate the vice president.

So though we might be tempted to shed a single tear for the plight of the down on their luck Trumpanzee, I say f*ck em. I hope they all get charged with felony murder of a federal officer and get the customary punishment for it.

I totally agree withy you and I think this "well they *must* have some some reason other than fascism" is really really dangerous, because it allows Trump-adjacent people on both the Right and the Left to make excuses for the MAGA seditionists. My mother and sister do this, too. "Well, if you look at it through a class lens"--I paraphrase wildly--"it's the voice of the unheard." Who, pray tell, is more "heard" than these people?

EDIT: my god the article is bad. Of course it frames these bloodthirsty MAGAS as financially insecure and just out for a joyride. "She wonders what she'll do with her dogs if she goes to prison." FFS. Only white people get that treatment.

Natus wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

It looks like even the WP has an article about the plight of the down on your luck Trumpanzee. Looks like most of the rioters had some sort of financial trouble.

I own and operate a small business in a rough neighborhood in inner city Baltimore. And I see entire communities struck with the kind of generational poverty that reminds us that our separation from the Third World is mostly just marketing. These folks are every bit as desperate every single day as any of those Capitol rioters were on the worst days of their lives. They just happen to be black, poor, and overpoliced. They also don't murder federal officers or try to assassinate the vice president.

So though we might be tempted to shed a single tear for the plight of the down on their luck Trumpanzee, I say f*ck em. I hope they all get charged with felony murder of a federal officer and get the customary punishment for it.

I totally agree withy you and I think this "well they *must* have some some reason other than fascism" is really really dangerous, because it allows Trump-adjacent people on both the Right and the Left to make excuses for the MAGA seditionists. My mother and sister do this, too. "Well, if you look at it through a class lens"--I paraphrase wildly--"it's the voice of the unheard." Who, pray tell, is more "heard" than these people?

EDIT: my god the article is bad. Of course it frames these bloodthirsty MAGAS as financially insecure and just out for a joyride. "She wonders what she'll do with her dogs if she goes to prison." FFS. Only white people get that treatment.

Yup. I had it out with a conservative who demanded that we treat these animals with "kindness" and reminded him that he was making all manner of excuses for the cops that shot and killed a black woman in her sleep.