Nioh Slash-All!

I'm laying low until the Nioh 2 last chance demo at the end of the month. But I plan to keep Nioh 1 installed even after the full release because I have a feeling I'll want to fire it up after spending some time with the sequel to try and draw any comparisons.

I'm only in the first area after the prison and training dojo. On the surface it feels very Dark Soulsish, but it is it bit more 'busy' than Dark Souls - trying to recover ki after strikes, the different stances, slightly faster paces fights (so far). I'm at the point where I'm trying to decide if I should continue playing Nioh to experience something new, or to play Dark Souls Remastered and start my way back through the series.

Hey robc. Glad to see you trying the game out. My "hard games" lineage is more on the side of Team Ninja through their Ninja Gaiden series. Responsive attacks, fast action, combat behaviours mapped to the face buttons, etc. so I naturally gravitated towards Nioh, which stands as the only Soulslike I enjoyed enough to finish, despite all of the frustrations.

If you're looking for story immersion or remarkable level design, you're not going to scratch that itch the more Nioh you play. You're going to be getting much deeper into the combat system, adding a secondary weapon to your arsenal, magic (onmyo) and ninjutsu tools. And there is loot on the level of a Diablo game. It won't come much into play during our first playthrough but it still has you go through the motions of equipping the best stuff after each mission, leveling the gear and doing some stat tweaks if you so wish. If these are the kind of things that interest you then I would say, yeah, keep spending more time with Nioh!

I'll probably play a bit more, but I prefer the slower pace, less complex fighting in Dark Souls. I think what I like best in Dark Souls is learning the different enemies and reading their animations and also the cool level design how things are interconnected in ways not immediately apparent. Even though I liked Bloodbourne, I didn't like it as much because the pace was faster and I couldn't take a breather to think behind my shield. In any case, Nioh had been on my Steam wishlist for a while so I am happy I got to try it through PS+ to try it out. I'll post back if it sucks me in enough to put in a substantial amount of time.

Had this from PS+ sometime I guess, finally fired it up today. There's a sale on Nioh 2 this weekend ($10) and apparently a remaster of both coming to PS5 in Feb. Just wanted to see if I might like this and should grab 2 while it's cheap. Looks like you get upgraded to the remaster for 2 anyway if you own the original.

Think I still have a bit more to explore before I even get to the real game though haha. Not enough fun yet to buy the 2nd, but enough to come back and try more later.

I'm finally digging into this! I wasn't ready for a challenging game when this was released in March but 9 months and a nice sale later it seems like now the time is right.

I just got the sweet, late title card the other night. Mr. Horse Head was a surprisingly easy first boss. Certainly not on the level of the Executioner of England of Nioh 1. I certainly struggled at times and guzzled my share of health potions to stay in it. Love the custom character creation and how the option to re-customize is so readily available.

EDIT: replaced my bunk Dropbox image links with Imgur. Just wanted to show off my custom William...

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/hcUhzSi.jpg)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/oEJOMiz.jpg)

Well Nioh 2 is still $10 but I haven't made much headway in the 1st one. Maybe this weekend.

With the remaster coming to PS5 in Feb, I'm kind of thinking about just picking up the 2nd and waiting to start it until then, with the free upgrade.

I picked up Nioh 2 but then covid landed and I just wasn't in the mood for a game like that. Then I felt like I needed to finish the first one before I started into the second one, but I think I'm just abandon that idea. It's not like there's some deep lore I care about.

I thought I would hate the switchglaive / grim reaper scythe but I've been using it waaaay more than the dual katanas.

Well I finally spent more time with the first game. I don't know.

Weeks ago when I posted I had done the prelude in London. Then the tutorial. Today I did the first area in Japan. Over... and over... and over...

1v1 was easy... until this one really strong sword guy on a ramp. Lost some 2v1 stuff when I couldn't pull. Then some 3v1 up near the first boss? But I kept making it back to my spot, and a couple times I ran back and leveled up. I took on some of the red summon enemies, and won. Put a few skill points into Ki when dodging, on a recommendation. And then I put some points into attack while block and parry, seemed like they might be good. But I can't get the parry timing down.

Anyway, finally got through the 3v1 guys that kept being the wall, and found an enemy with a bow. So finally got a ranged weapon and then got to see the boss. Then died, swiftly. Then on the run back hit the strong sword guy again and screwed up even though I had beaten him several times at that point. Bah.

Just not in the mood for more of this grind right now.

Sucks to hear you’re not enjoying the game where you’re at. The fisherman’s village, right? What a level. I spent an eternity working through this area methodically as a new player. It can be quite gruelling. But I learned a lot. There’s a ton of yokai to fight, lots of human enemies and the boss is a pretty good trainer for taking on Nioh bosses in general. Well, certainly provides very little preparation for the very next boss, Hinno Enma, but I’m sure it helps a little! Did I mention a ton of Yokai fights? And collapsing rooftops are always fun.

What seems to be tripping you up the most? At this stage I don’t recommend parrying attacks. To be honest, I got though the game and halfway through NG+ with dodges and blocks. Parries are kind of cute and a luxury. Unless you are willing to use the area as a sort of giant sparring room, I wouldn’t any time mastering parries here.

Stay near the shrine and pick fights with all of the fallen player graves. Great practice and some decent loot from winning these from time to time.

2v1s are rough. I don’t think you’re ever forced into a 3v1 so early but there’s still the odd 2v1 fights. Get used to swapping lock on targets. Keep both enemies in clear view. It can be worth it to grapple a gassed enemy but not at the expense of exposing your back to the guy who’s still chasing you. One or two good hits from him will finish you. Find the stance with your chosen weapon that gives you good horizontal sweeping attack combos. This is usually the mid stance light attacks. Or stay mobile using death from a thousand cuts in low stance. I don’t recommend high stance against multiple foes until you know what you’re doing.

Hope you can stay with it and beat the first boss! I’ve never finished a Soulsborne game but I liked Nioh enough to go all the way and put it in a couple of my GWJ “best of” lists. Good luck and happy new year!

Maclintok wrote:

Sucks to hear you’re not enjoying the game where you’re at. The fisherman’s village, right? What a level. I spent an eternity working through this area methodically as a new player. It can be quite gruelling. But I learned a lot.

Indeed. The opening sequence in the Tower of London certainly teaches the basics, but the first Japanese area with the fishing village is really where the learning started for me, and boy howdy did I die a lot at first (it was my first Souls-like). Completely agree with Maclintok that parrying is basically asking to die for a newbie. Dodge and run is what got me through, as well as experimenting with all of the weapon-types until I found what really clicked.

The very first enemy is near the shrine, and used him mercilessly as a practice dummy for various techniques, timing, and so forth, running back to the shrine each time to reset. Once I figured some stuff out, I then ran a sequence of killing the first 5-6 enemies multiple times, again figuring out timing and methods. This had the added advantage of letting me skill up a bit by spending amarita.

I figured out that taking the obvious path isn't necessarily the best, and that there are multiple short-cuts to the various shrines that remove a lot of back-tracking. And when I got to the true first boss in the ship, it took me so many tries until I realised that rolling *through* a large enemy was possible. Game-changing realisation there that really helped!

Stele, I hope you keep at it. I stalled out a bit in the late game (I keep meaning to go back) but I had a ton of fun once I got the rhythm and strategy down.

Well I gave it another hour last night after watching a parrying video. Apparently the dual blades parry is one of the harder ones to time right. I did manage to pull it off, but not against the sword enemies. Did it to the axe guy and spear guy pretty easy and just decimated them with it.

I also tried using my bow more. The very first 2v1 where they're sitting/standing at a fire together. I headshot the standing guy with the bow and kills him in one shot, so no more 2v1 haha.

The 3v1 I mentioned was right after the tough ramp enemy. There's a fenced in area, and if you peek inside the fence 3 guys come after you. After the first time I was able to pull one with a rock. But couldn't avoid the 2v1. And I guess in that building was a yokai fight? That's the "boss" I was talking about dying to before but I guess not really one.

But last night where that tough sword enemy was on the ramp, I went off to the left away from him and there's a whole grass area back there that I hadn't found yet. An archer on the cliff behind an enemy surprised and killed me once. Next time I cleared out that whole area. Then found this strange enemy that squatted low that I could barely hit. Then it jumped on me and pinned me to the ground. I survived but there were a couple more of them that direction. So I went the other way and yay there was another shrine!

Trying out weapons is a good point. I liked the sword and spear in London. The axe felt too slow for me. But when I saw dual swords in that character setup bit I really wanted to try them. And they have been mostly good, except the weird parry. Then I also noticed that certain stats affect certain weapons. And in the little dojo time I liked bows a lot better than guns. So I'm already wondering if maybe I should have chosen regular sword since bows and sword use the same stat.

I guess starting weapon isn't a big deal, just a point, but now I've already spent several samurai skill points in dual swords. Hesitant to change but also wonder if I maybe should if I'm going to stick with this?

I did get the grapple enemy when they're out of stamina skill last night too and that helped me finish off enemies. Just block and poke them a bit until they run out of stamina then boom. And if the grapple didn't kill them it knocked them down and then that attack would finish them.

Coldstream wrote:

The very first enemy is near the shrine, and used him mercilessly as a practice dummy for various techniques, timing, and so forth, running back to the shrine each time to reset. Once I figured some stuff out, I then ran a sequence of killing the first 5-6 enemies multiple times, again figuring out timing and methods. This had the added advantage of letting me skill up a bit by spending amarita.

Yeah I tried that with parrying and maybe pulled it off one attack out of 5-7 runs. After I missed so many parries and had to use healing item I would just kill him and reset.

Don't know why I wanted to parry so much, maybe just thinking about Bloodborne heh.

I probably need to figure out stances more too. I'm sure some of the enemies that gave me trouble need that. I thought I saw a tip about fighting stuff on the ground using low stance, so that enemy that jumped on me I probably need that. Not sure what I need with that tough sword guy on the ramp though.

Stele wrote:

I probably need to figure out stances more too. I'm sure some of the enemies that gave me trouble need that. I thought I saw a tip about fighting stuff on the ground using low stance, so that enemy that jumped on me I probably need that. Not sure what I need with that tough sword guy on the ramp though.

The stances really just allow you to choose between power on one end and speed/mobility on the other. Mid-stance and low-stance were what I used mostly for a high-mobility style. Learning to chi-pulse is important too, especially for true boss fights, since it both recovers your stamina and also eliminates some of the yokai pools that they leave on the ground that sap your stamina. I tried to ignore it at first to my detriment.

Glad you explored a bit and found that grassy area. In the region when you got jumped by that weird low-to-the-ground enemy, there's a ladder that leads back to the first shrine, which allows you to skip the hill-climb portion. As you've already discovered, there's another shrine by the archers which allows you to have a short reset for your first Yokai mini-boss. Amusingly, you'll be destroying those regularly as the game progresses, but that first one feels like a beast!

Sounds like the dual-swords is working well for you. I'd recommend you use that other weapon slot to play with other options. For myself, I used dual-swords and the kusarigama to give me options. The dual-swords gave me short, fast attack options, while the kusarigama gave me sweeping and distance attacks. I personally found that certain enemies seemed easier with different weapons, so I was pretty shameless about switching to another weapon to give it a shot for a tough enemy. Especially at your stage of the game, I'd be trying everything and not worrying too much about the points you've specced. Make sure you give the ninjitsu and omiya stuff a try too. It's not game-breaking, but can be super useful in a pinch.

Yeah I've been tapping the pulse button a lot. Probably not perfect on timing but I'm getting some back. I also took the skill for pulse on dodge.

I thought that path probably did loop back, but I was worried about dying on the way. Now that I found the other shrine I'll make an attempt to connect them.

Just googled that you can do a respec later after the blacksmith, so I guess there's no stress about screwing up points too badly yet. I'll just keep messing around with dual blades for now then, and maybe try the spear again a few times since I liked it in London.

Stele wrote:

Yeah I've been tapping the pulse button a lot. Probably not perfect on timing but I'm getting some back. I also took the skill for pulse on dodge.

I thought that path probably did loop back, but I was worried about dying on the way. Now that I found the other shrine I'll make an attempt to connect them.

Just googled that you can do a respec later after the blacksmith, so I guess there's no stress about screwing up points too badly yet. I'll just keep messing around with dual blades for now then, and maybe try the spear again a few times since I liked it in London.

Let us know how you get on! You've got me itching to take another crack at it, although I shudder to think how rusty I'll be. Worse, I stopped in a particularly twitchy area, so that will be challenging.

Group Fights:
I stand corrected! Yes, there are 3-on-1 scenarios in the fisherman's village but there are ways to kite enemies away from the group or you have an opportunity dispatch one human quickly before the other two are able to come onto the scene and engage. The level is quite brilliant with the number of lessons it (brutally) dispenses to the player.

Fighting Yokai:
The horned demons have a peculiar weakness in that if you hit them in the horns just so (either with melee or ranged), you will instantly crumple them. Crumple state is bliss and if you're maining dual katanas, this is your opportunity to do a finishing ground strike and follow that up with the skill that sees you sheathing your swords briefly before unsheathing again in a devastating charged attack. Sorry I forget the name of the skill but it's quite accessible from the Dual Katana skills page! This attack sequence is something you can abuse with all types of enemies.

Stances:
Generally speaking....

Low Stance - dodging and fighting smaller and/or quicker enemies
Mid Stance - defensive "all round" stance best for blocking, group fights and poking
High Stance - you want to f--k something up good. Can be very effective for yokai and boss fights once you've learned some tells and timing

Ki Pulse:
ABKP! Always Be Ki Pulsing!
I also unlocked the dodge Ki pulse as soon as I could on my first playthrough. It is very handy in boss and group fights, when things are getting really hairy. I'd recommend you break yourself of the habit of overusing it as soon as possible if you can. Dodging to regain Ki means you're resetting to neutral and missing opportunities for damage. It's a bit scary at first but try to finish all of your combos with a full Ki pulse while staring the enemy dead in the eyes. Some enemies can and will punish you during this brief pause. You'll learn what those are in due time but most enemies will still be recovering from your strikes. It's holding your ground and Ki pulsing that will enable you to maintain the offensive and flow right into another combo.

Invest in the skill that returns even more Ki when you Ki pulse into a different stance. Then grab the next skill that rewards even more Ki when you switch stances twice. Double stance Ki pulse is a bit excessive but being able to handle even a single stance change will enable you to lay the beats on foes that are giving you fits now. The thing I never got the hang of? Ki pulsing into a weapon switch combo... You're just showboating at this point! That got a bit too crazy for me for too little reward, imho.

2021 is gonna be the year you conquer Nioh. Good luck & have fun!

I think sign of the cross is the attack, Mac. Seen it mentioned in good skills for dual swords that I was looking up today.

And it looks like Shrike is the good parry that's easy to pull off. So I need to just focus on block and dodge for now until I unlock that.

I also got a little magic stuff. Shruiken to throw instead of rocks and a fire buff to put on my weapon. I wasn't sure which element to try first but fire is good in most games. Think I might take another shot at that yokai today.

Maclintok wrote:

Invest in the skill that returns even more Ki when you Ki pulse into a different stance. Then grab the next skill that rewards even more Ki when you switch stances twice.

I completely ignored this skill, as I rarely switch stances during a one-on-one fight. I may have to give your method a shot, as I have definitely been using a dance-in, dance-out style of fighting.

I love that fishing village zone. It's really well-designed and well-paced as an introduction to the game's world and mechanics.

Last night I beat that first yokai finally. And got the key to the village that was on fire, and the door you have to open from the other side. Spent a long time slowly getting further and further, kicking down ladders, putting out a fire. Had a bad run in with a strong sword guy and lost about 10k amrita. But eventually got through and out the gate. I saw another path heading away, and a boat maybe I should explore. But I went to the gate, saved, and then died to the yokai in a house nearby about 3-4 times before calling it a night. Haha.

Dodging with dual swords was a little better. I gave up on the difficult parry and will wait for the other one later. I did get sign of the cross, the sheath attack. But I had trouble pulling it off in combat. Testing 1v1 with the first enemy near the 2nd shrine was fine, but then trying to pull it off later I failed a few times and got hit. Will look into it more.

I used living weapon on the couple of yokai that I did defeat and that was super helpful. I also started using bow to pick enemies off on the rooftops, especially when they were grouped, to even the odds. And also when they were archers to shoot first so they didn't shoot me.

Game is very slow going. Not sure how long I'll stick with it, but at least I made it a little farther and don't feel quite as useless.

Go to the boat last. It's the point of no return for the level.

Always love to hear a new player’s experience with these games. They are my favorite Souls-like, even though extremely difficult. Once you master the combat and ki pulse things really open up in the first game. Enemies that used to scare you to death become little more than fodder in your way, only for your confidence to get checked again when you meet even stronger foes with completely different attacks. Keep with it though, it is absolutely worth the effort. Just reading your posts makes me want to take another stab at the DLC, or make a serious start on Nioh 2. If anyone is playing the first game on Steam I’d be more than happy to help out.

It is completely possible to beat, and even obliterate the game, later on, without mastering ki pulse. Talking from experience Also stayed in high stance 99% of the time on my spin to win axe build (and tbh, also in later builds, never really saw the point of stance switching for most builds).
Part of the beauty of Nioh, compared to Souls etc. is that Diablo mix in it. You can basically build your character toward whatever you want, and it will work if enough gear is thrown at it.

Shadout wrote:

Part of the beauty of Nioh, compared to Souls etc. is that Diablo mix in it.

That is by far my least favorite part of it! Nioh would be so much better without the loot drop part of it.

Shadout wrote:

It is completely possible to beat, and even obliterate the game, later on, without mastering ki pulse. Talking from experience Also stayed in high stance 99% of the time on my spin to win axe build (and tbh, also in later builds, never really saw the point of stance switching for most builds).
Part of the beauty of Nioh, compared to Souls etc. is that Diablo mix in it. You can basically build your character toward whatever you want, and it will work if enough gear is thrown at it.

I always used high stance as well, but man I don’t know what I would do without the ki pulse.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Shadout wrote:

Part of the beauty of Nioh, compared to Souls etc. is that Diablo mix in it.

That is by far my least favorite part of it! Nioh would be so much better without the loot drop part of it.

Could not agree more, way too much loot.

There's definitely a lot of loot.

I did pick up Nioh 2 the other day on sale, since the remaster gets a free PS5 upgrade in Feb. I'll probably mess around with the first until then, and if I haven't beat it, move on to 2.

Stele wrote:

But I went to the gate, saved, and then died to the yokai in a house nearby about 3-4 times before calling it a night. Haha.

IIRC, that yokai is optional. I don't remember if you can only enter the house through the roof. It's so cramped in there, I think I rushed to the door to open it to lead the demon outside for easier fighting.

Stele wrote:

Dodging with dual swords was a little better. I gave up on the difficult parry and will wait for the other one later. I did get sign of the cross, the sheath attack. But I had trouble pulling it off in combat. Testing 1v1 with the first enemy near the 2nd shrine was fine, but then trying to pull it off later I failed a few times and got hit. Will look into it more.

At least the timing of the dual swords parry makes intuitive sense. The timing window for the spear parry in contrast, is just wild. It feels much more delayed and I did not have fun trying to get the hang of it. As for Sign of the Cross (thanks for reminding me of the name!), it does good HP and Ki damage but the long wind up makes it a risky opening move or doing it cold.

Stele wrote:

I used living weapon on the couple of yokai that I did defeat and that was super helpful. I also started using bow to pick enemies off on the rooftops, especially when they were grouped, to even the odds. And also when they were archers to shoot first so they didn't shoot me.

Game is very slow going. Not sure how long I'll stick with it, but at least I made it a little farther and don't feel quite as useless.

Dope! Yes, yes, it's all about being more methodical and making use of all the tools at your disposal. Glad to see you making more progress!