Tabletop RPG Catch All

Nevin73 wrote:
Quintin_Stone wrote:
Nevin73 wrote:

The only system that I can't wrap my head around is the Fate system. I was going to try to run a game of the Dresden Files RPG, but without actual game mechanics, how to play it eluded me. Maybe it would click if a GM who got it ran a game, but to me it feels more like an improv exercise than an actual TTRPG.

I own The Dresden Files books. The rule book is 356 pages. The setting book is another 261 pages. Claiming it lacks "actual game mechanics" makes as much sense as saying the world is flat and made of barbecue spare ribs.

I've also played improv exercise RPGs. Fiasco & Universalis are two I can name off the top of my head. Oh, and Prime Time Adventures.

It's been a while since I've picked up the Dresden rulebook or the Accelerated one, but I seem to recall most of those pages were devoted to lore, background, and stats for key characters.

My interpretation of Fate was "do a good job roleplaying, you get a token that allows you to reroll the sh*tty dice". But I want to check out the references above to evolve my understanding.

The setting book is devoted to lore, background, and stats for key characters. That's why I listed the books separately.

Now if you're specifically referring to Accelerated Fate, that I can't speak to. But the regular "Dresden Files RPG" does not use Accelerated Fate.

So, sort of related but maybe not. I’ve been running a sandbox PF2 game for the last year or so. We’re 20+ sessions into this campaign, and I still haven’t internalized all of the skill actions. I could say how I feel about that, but I’m pretty sure it’s against the rules here.

Next session, I’m going to be running a one-shot in Old-School Essentials. The way I GM is already informed heavily by that style of game, so I don’t think it will be as big of shift as one might think from PF2. I really want it to go over well because I can’t see myself continuing to run PF2 after we finish up the current dungeon.

And no, 5e is not an option.

Oh hey, I wrote a second adventure you guys! This one was a bit experimental - i've tried to get a bunch of replayability in there with three possible antagonists and a dungeon that changes slightly whether you run it at high tide or low tide.

The Kelpie's Shadow - A Player Primer Adventure

Welcome to the Moonshae Isles. On this mysterious and magical series of islands, myth becomes real. One such myth is taking its toll on Barret's Quay: ancient artifacts of protection have been stolen, and haunting creatures of myth have begun to menace the villagers. Adventurers are needed to recover these artifacts and uncover the mystery behind their theft.

I have 7th level character that has been willingly transformed into a Giant Ape by the Polymorph spell. The statistics for that creature are as follows:

Giant Ape
Huge beast, unaligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 157 (15d12+60)
Speed 40 ft., climb 40 ft.
STR
23 (+6) DEX
14 (+2) CON
18 (+4) INT
7 (-2) WIS
12 (+1) CHA
7 (-2)
Skills Athletics +9, Perception +4
Senses passive Perception 14
Challenge 7 (2,900 XP)
Actions
Multiattack. The ape makes two fist attacks.
Fist. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: (3d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage.
Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 50/100 ft., one target. Hit: (7d6 + 6) bludgeoning damage.

If I understand the rules correctly, I could pretty easily use my 10' reach (and huge size) to grab a medium sized creature along a 7 square frontage two squares deep, grapple it, and take it to the ground with my two attacks. Once it is down, it can only try to get up with its movement, but could attack me with disadvantage. This entire time any of my buddies can beat on his head with advantage instead.

Here is a question. Would I be able to use my movement to pivot and drag him in front of my enraged barbarian buddy where he could beat the everloving snail snot out of him with advantage? Additionally, would I be able to drag him past the same barbarian so he can get an additional opportunity attack as he is dragged out of range? If I can use my movement to drag him, could I drag him such that I extend my reach and drop him into a pot of boiling oil or over a high cliff?

I am a little disappointed that the 5e rules don't allow me to go all Hulk on Loki and smash him on the pavers like a rag doll, but I wonder if the above scenarios are reasonable consolations.

You can drag a grappled target. Typically you move at half movement speed while dragging, but a giant ape might be able justify moving at normal speed.

You wouldn't be able to trigger opportunity attacks though, forced movement doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.

Paleocon wrote:

I have 7th level character that has been willingly transformed into a Giant Ape by the Polymorph spell. The statistics for that creature are as follows:

Giant Ape
Huge beast, unaligned
Armor Class 12
Hit Points 157 (15d12+60)
Speed 40 ft., climb 40 ft.
STR
23 (+6) DEX
14 (+2) CON
18 (+4) INT
7 (-2) WIS
12 (+1) CHA
7 (-2)
Skills Athletics +9, Perception +4
Senses passive Perception 14
Challenge 7 (2,900 XP)
Actions
Multiattack. The ape makes two fist attacks.
Fist. Melee Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: (3d10 + 6) bludgeoning damage.
Rock. Ranged Weapon Attack: +9 to hit, reach 50/100 ft., one target. Hit: (7d6 + 6) bludgeoning damage.

If I understand the rules correctly, I could pretty easily use my 10' reach (and huge size) to grab a medium sized creature along a 7 square frontage two squares deep, grapple it, and take it to the ground with my two attacks. Once it is down, it can only try to get up with its movement, but could attack me with disadvantage. This entire time any of my buddies can beat on his head with advantage instead.

Here is a question. Would I be able to use my movement to pivot and drag him in front of my enraged barbarian buddy where he could beat the everloving snail snot out of him with advantage? Additionally, would I be able to drag him past the same barbarian so he can get an additional opportunity attack as he is dragged out of range? If I can use my movement to drag him, could I drag him such that I extend my reach and drop him into a pot of boiling oil or over a high cliff?

I am a little disappointed that the 5e rules don't allow me to go all Hulk on Loki and smash him on the pavers like a rag doll, but I wonder if the above scenarios are reasonable consolations.

You can just flavor your attacks that way. And while you can't get opportunity attacks you can drag them through spike growth, Bonfire or push them into something like Evards Black Tentacles (my favorite spell name).

Ooh. You just got me thinking. Since I have a reach of 10 and can move my grappled victim anywhere within my affected radius, could I, say, push him face first into a wall of fire or (later) prismatic wall?

Paleocon wrote:

Ooh. You just got me thinking. Since I have a reach of 10 and can move my grappled victim anywhere within my affected radius, could I, say, push him face first into a wall of fire or (later) prismatic wall?

As always ask your DM how that might affect you but I think most would be good with that.

Are you a Bugbear? I'm running a STR based Bugbear Horizon Walker Ranger, and he's great.

NathanialG wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Ooh. You just got me thinking. Since I have a reach of 10 and can move my grappled victim anywhere within my affected radius, could I, say, push him face first into a wall of fire or (later) prismatic wall?

As always ask your DM how that might affect you but I think most would be good with that.

Are you a Bugbear? I'm running a STR based Bugbear Horizon Walker Ranger, and he's great.

No. I'm a hobbit rogue who was polymorphed into a Giant Ape.

Paleocon wrote:
NathanialG wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

Ooh. You just got me thinking. Since I have a reach of 10 and can move my grappled victim anywhere within my affected radius, could I, say, push him face first into a wall of fire or (later) prismatic wall?

As always ask your DM how that might affect you but I think most would be good with that.

Are you a Bugbear? I'm running a STR based Bugbear Horizon Walker Ranger, and he's great.

No. I'm a hobbit rogue who was polymorphed into a Giant Ape.

Isn't WOTC involved in enough lawsuits, Paleo?

I just found some sealed boxes of rpg books I bought 20 years ago and they are in nearly mint condition and I am very happy.

BuzzW wrote:

I just found some sealed boxes of rpg books I bought 20 years ago and they are in nearly mint condition and I am very happy.

That is awesome.

-BEP

Every once in a while, I see my old D&D box and go through it to reminisce about the "good 'ol days".

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/S3fmh0v.png)

I made the box in maybe 1984 in shop class. It's not pretty, but I loved it back then. Everyone else was making cedar chests but I didn't need a cedar chest; I needed something to tote my D&D stuff between my house and Johnny's.

I drew up a plan for it, weak hinged door, 2 sections, pencil holder, and dice holder, all in 1/2" wood. When I showed it to the shop teacher, he said "I don't have 1/2" wood, I only have 3/4" wood, why do you want it in 1/2" wood?" What I was thinking was "I had no idea, I don't know nothing about wood shopping." but I told him because I wanted it to be lighter for carrying around.

He looked my skinny a$$ up and down and grunted "Uh-huh", doing his best Karl impression 12 years early, and we jumped in his truck and drove to the lumber yard where he bought some 1/2" Locust for me. That's how small town schools worked back then - your shop teacher could leave the 10 biggest troublemakers in the class with his shop tools and drive the nerd to the lumber yard in the middle of class.

Unfortunately, in 1985, I lost my original Trifecta books - DMG, PHB, and MM. Two girl friends (not girlfriends - although I married one 15 years later) bought me replacements for my 16th birthday.

Speaking of mint, BuzzW, I have no clue why I have had 2 copies of "C2: The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan", one still in shrink, since the early '80s. It was one of the first modules I ever bought, so probably in '81/'82, but why did I buy another copy? Who knows. I had no money, so the $8(?) for a module back then was a lot.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/7aloIDV.png)

I just took the DMG downstairs to Kit and said "Remember this?" She smiled warmly and said "Yeah, I bought that for you when you were 16." (which was almost 36 years ago) I replied "Well, you and Julie did." and left her craft room before she threw something sharp at me, while giggling half out loud. There's some history there...

-BEP

Very cool; I've got my AD&D PHB and DMG near my desk for nostalgia, and almost ran players through the Hidden Shrine reprint in Tales from the Yawning Portal before I remembered I hate old-school dungeons designed to dick players over with nonsensical traps, and that module is pretty much the gold standard for that for modules not with the words "Tomb" and "Annihilation" in the title.

I had a sh*tty, cheap backpack, and all the corners of my books are rubbed off from jostling around. Far less stylish than a home-crafted carry box.

I'd like to blame the old modules for my old "adventures" I would make not having any coherence. They were basically just random stuff put there to give my buddy Johnny something to kill and loot.

Sadly, I still don't have an imagination so running my own stuff it hard.

My books in that pic are shot. All banged up. And I really took care of them - that just how much use they got. I'm the kind of person that can read a paperback book and when I'm done, you can't tell it's not new. And yet, my second copies of the Trifecta book are beat to Hell.

I'm scared to open the Unearthed. I'm sure all the glue is deteriorated and all the pages will fall out. Such a horrible print run.

-BEP

I'm in a 5e Theros game playing a Satyr Eloquence Bard with a dip level in Hexblade. He's got four levels in Bard and one in Hexblade and the campaign is going to go all the way to Level 20. I figured I needed the dip level because the party is pretty caster heavy and needed someone to enter melee other than our one barbarian.

My question is should I go for a second level and get the Eldritch Invocations or should I stay on the Bard path to get the higher level spells sooner and use the Ability Score Improvement as my capstone level?

I took Warcaster as my first feat at level 5 (1 Hexblade, 4 Bard). I plan on taking 4 points of Charisma at Bard levels 8 and 12 whenever I take them. After that, I will probably go with another feat like Spell Sniper or Shield Master depending on how things roll out.

I have no solid plans for that last ASI, but I can certainly see how Devil Sight and/or Repelling Blast would really help in the midgame.

So, should I take the second dip and if so, at what level?

Paleocon wrote:

I'm in a 5e Theros game playing a Satyr Eloquence Bard with a dip level in Hexblade. He's got four levels in Bard and one in Hexblade and the campaign is going to go all the way to Level 20. I figured I needed the dip level because the party is pretty caster heavy and needed someone to enter melee other than our one barbarian.

My question is should I go for a second level and get the Eldritch Invocations or should I stay on the Bard path to get the higher level spells sooner and use the Ability Score Improvement as my capstone level?

I took Warcaster as my first feat at level 5 (1 Hexblade, 4 Bard). I plan on taking 4 points of Charisma at Bard levels 8 and 12 whenever I take them. After that, I will probably go with another feat like Spell Sniper or Shield Master depending on how things roll out.

I have no solid plans for that last ASI, but I can certainly see how Devil Sight and/or Repelling Blast would really help in the midgame.

So, should I take the second dip and if so, at what level?

I think picking up another level of Warlock wouldn't be a bad idea. Warlock gets you access to Booming Blade / Green Flame Blade and Mind Sliver if you all are using Tasha's.

Not sure how your DM handles magic items but there are plenty of items that supply illumination and/or darkvision so you could do Agonizing Blast / Repelling Blast.

Reaper81 wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

I'm in a 5e Theros game playing a Satyr Eloquence Bard with a dip level in Hexblade. He's got four levels in Bard and one in Hexblade and the campaign is going to go all the way to Level 20. I figured I needed the dip level because the party is pretty caster heavy and needed someone to enter melee other than our one barbarian.

My question is should I go for a second level and get the Eldritch Invocations or should I stay on the Bard path to get the higher level spells sooner and use the Ability Score Improvement as my capstone level?

I took Warcaster as my first feat at level 5 (1 Hexblade, 4 Bard). I plan on taking 4 points of Charisma at Bard levels 8 and 12 whenever I take them. After that, I will probably go with another feat like Spell Sniper or Shield Master depending on how things roll out.

I have no solid plans for that last ASI, but I can certainly see how Devil Sight and/or Repelling Blast would really help in the midgame.

So, should I take the second dip and if so, at what level?

I think picking up another level of Warlock wouldn't be a bad idea. Warlock gets you access to Booming Blade / Green Flame Blade and Mind Sliver if you all are using Tasha's.

Not sure how your DM handles magic items but there are plenty of items that supply illumination and/or darkvision so you could do Agonizing Blast / Repelling Blast.

The reason for going with Devil Sight was to use the trick with magical darkness. This would allow you to cast darkness on yourself and have advantage on enemies you fight in melee (even those with darkvision as only blindsight and devil sight allow you to operate in magical darkness unimpeded).

He will never be a primary melee character as I won't invest the levels to give him multiple attacks, but it would be nice to have him soak up some frontage in a pinch. To that end, I have him balanced between hitting and being hard to hit.

Dex 16, shield spell, shield, studded leather for an AC of 17/22.
CHR 16, +1 shortsword, green flame blade, hexblade's curse, hunter's mark for a damage of 2d6 + d8 + 7.

So blinding my melee opponent would have the effect of giving me advantage on attacks (for an extra chance to crit on a 19 or 20) and making me harder to hit as he would be attacking at disadvantage.

I don't destroy folks like our Leonin barbarian, but I hold my own now and the darkness bit would make a nontrivial difference. The question is whether or not I will regret not waiting for the ASI at level 19. Part of the reason for the one level dip is that the capstone for bard at level 20 is pretty meaningless.

One thing to keep in mind with the Darkness + Devil's Sight combo is that while it is very powerful, it's as much a hindrance to the rest of your party as it is for your enemies. It's a solid tactic for going 1-on-1 with a lone enemy while the rest of the party deals with something else, but in just about any other situation you'd be giving your allies disadvantage and breaking line-of-sight for friendly spellcasters. I'd check with the other players to see if they're cool with it first.

Another thing to consider is that every level you take in Warlock is delaying your Bard spell progression, so you're sacrificing power for versatility. I played a Bard 3 / Warlock 5 multiclass in a previous campaign, and while he had a ton of utility he definitely started to lag behind the rest of the party in terms of raw power. Feels bad when the Cleric is throwing out big flashy 4th level spells and you're still stuck with level 3s.

muttonchop wrote:

One thing to keep in mind with the Darkness + Devil's Sight combo is that while it is very powerful, it's as much a hindrance to the rest of your party as it is for your enemies. It's a solid tactic for going 1-on-1 with a lone enemy while the rest of the party deals with something else, but in just about any other situation you'd be giving your allies disadvantage and breaking line-of-sight for friendly spellcasters. I'd check with the other players to see if they're cool with it first.

Another thing to consider is that every level you take in Warlock is delaying your Bard spell progression, so you're sacrificing power for versatility. I played a Bard 3 / Warlock 5 multiclass in a previous campaign, and while he had a ton of utility he definitely started to lag behind the rest of the party in terms of raw power. Feels bad when the Cleric is throwing out big flashy 4th level spells and you're still stuck with level 3s.

Exactly. The "falling behind" thing is what I am most concerned with behind the trade off at the capstone levels. The bard true capstone is so meaningless though that it just about demands a one dip multiclass. I felt the falling behind part a little bit even with the one level dip as the ASI didn't come until level 5. Seeing as two members of our 4 member party are Variant Humans who were taking their second ASI dip already.

I figure that the level 18 Magical Secrets will probably be the true capstone anyway. The 5th ASI at 19 is nice, but by then I would already have maxed out CHR and gotten the two feats I think would add the most utility.

I guess I am trying to figure out if I would get more use out of the invocations or if I would regret not being patient.

So, in terms of "falling behind", it's going to be more serious here because while one level of Hexblade can be really useful for some builds, it's not going to do a lot for your Bard as you level, and your ability to be useful and even survive in melee is going to vanish as you level. Hexblade/Paladin is a classic, because the melee works together, but you're going to find that a single attack in melee is eventually going to be less optimal more than anything else you can do, and you're going to fall back on spellcasting almost entirely. Without extra attack, melee is going to be dead weight.

Also, to muttonchop's point, the Devil's Sight/Darkness combo is one of those great things in theorycrafting that looks phenomenal on paper, but it's an absolute pain in the butt for everybody else you're playing with. Even if you get off to the side, at some point with the way AC stays reasonably low and to hit bonuses get higher (bounded accuracy), even disadvantage isn't that big of a deal, and you'll still get hit easily. I recently took a Fiend Tomelock/Lore Bard to level 20 (Warlock 17/Bard 3) and had Darkness/Devil's Sight, and, as a pure blaster (as in, literally never once used a weapon through 20 levels of play), I still didn't use that combo after maybe level 8-9, because there were always better options for using an action and/or concentration.

Side note which is irrelevant but yet I am overly geek-proud of; I hit level 20 never dropping once to zero HP due to smart play and hiding behind the murderhobos. Fun times.

Anyways, from a melee perspective, to stay alive over time, AC is critical, which means you'd likely need to up to medium armor and a shield, at which point you probably need Warcaster so you can cast spells. Invocations are phenomenally useful, and the Agonizing Blast/Repelling Blast combo turns you into an effective damage dealer who has a really fun control aspect of pushing people around the map. Also, depending on how you want to play, that third level of Warlock gives you a Pact, which offers a lot of utility.

As for falling behind, yeah, it happens; I never planned my character build (I just wanted to try a Fiend Warlock with a good-natured character because it sounded amusing), and randomly multiclassed into Bard; when my Cleric/full Bard party members were hitting level 8, I was just up to 5/3 in Warlock/Bard, and I really missed those higher-level spells. Then again, the flexibility of the character build is what made it actually fun to play, so, in the end, it was a good trade-off for me, because being an Eldritch Blast cannon that had a lot of fun little support abilities/spells turned it into one of the singly most fun characters I've ever played, but, yeah, I lagged behind a bit.

Of course, I am an inveterate optimizer, so take with a grain of salt or five.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

So, in terms of "falling behind", it's going to be more serious here because while one level of Hexblade can be really useful for some builds, it's not going to do a lot for your Bard as you level, and your ability to be useful and even survive in melee is going to vanish as you level. Hexblade/Paladin is a classic, because the melee works together, but you're going to find that a single attack in melee is eventually going to be less optimal more than anything else you can do, and you're going to fall back on spellcasting almost entirely. Without extra attack, melee is going to be dead weight.

Also, to muttonchop's point, the Devil's Sight/Darkness combo is one of those great things in theorycrafting that looks phenomenal on paper, but it's an absolute pain in the butt for everybody else you're playing with. Even if you get off to the side, at some point with the way AC stays reasonably low and to hit bonuses get higher (bounded accuracy), even disadvantage isn't that big of a deal, and you'll still get hit easily. I recently took a Fiend Tomelock/Lore Bard to level 20 (Warlock 17/Bard 3) and had Darkness/Devil's Sight, and, as a pure blaster (as in, literally never once used a weapon through 20 levels of play), I still didn't use that combo after maybe level 8-9, because there were always better options for using an action and/or concentration.

Side note which is irrelevant but yet I am overly geek-proud of; I hit level 20 never dropping once to zero HP due to smart play and hiding behind the murderhobos. Fun times.

Anyways, from a melee perspective, to stay alive over time, AC is critical, which means you'd likely need to up to medium armor and a shield, at which point you probably need Warcaster so you can cast spells. Invocations are phenomenally useful, and the Agonizing Blast/Repelling Blast combo turns you into an effective damage dealer who has a really fun control aspect of pushing people around the map. Also, depending on how you want to play, that third level of Warlock gives you a Pact, which offers a lot of utility.

As for falling behind, yeah, it happens; I never planned my character build (I just wanted to try a Fiend Warlock with a good-natured character because it sounded amusing), and randomly multiclassed into Bard; when my Cleric/full Bard party members were hitting level 8, I was just up to 5/3 in Warlock/Bard, and I really missed those higher-level spells. Then again, the flexibility of the character build is what made it actually fun to play, so, in the end, it was a good trade-off for me, because being an Eldritch Blast cannon that had a lot of fun little support abilities/spells turned it into one of the singly most fun characters I've ever played, but, yeah, I lagged behind a bit.

Of course, I am an inveterate optimizer, so take with a grain of salt or five.

Yeah. That is sort of the direction I am leaning in.

It might help to point out how the party itself breaks down.

We have a Leonin barbarian (level 5, great weapon master), a variant human sorcerer, a variant human rogue/cleric (3 levels rogue/2 cleric) and me.

The rogue/cleric is remarkably squishy for the class though and prefers to sit back and shoot things with her crossbow. This pretty much leaves the Leonin to soak up all the melee attacks unless I am willing to get into it myself. This is what prompted my dip into hexblade. Also, one of the artifacts we are trying to recover is some sort of remarkable shield, so I thought it would be a good idea to have someone in the party that would actually use it.

I might still end up going for the invocations later, but am sort of racing to get to the 8th level ASI so I can get my CHR bonus up to +4 and if I am there, i might as well stick it out until I get to the 10th level magical secrets and can use meaningful battlefield control spells like wall of force or telepathy. By then, I am sure the invocations will probably not even really matter.

Pyxistyx mentioned some Cyberpunk TTRPGs in another thread and I was wondering if anyone has strong thoughts/experiences with smelly-hippy/narrative-focused cyberpunk games. I am aware of a couple PBTA ones, The Sprawl (which I own) and The Veil. I am familiar with Sigmata which seems really cool, but some of the reviews are mixed. I assume by now someone has made a Forged in the Dark, given how Blades so perfectly captures mission-based criminals, but I haven't heard of any. Although Scum & Villainy could probably be focused in that direction depending on the GM and group.

Mixolyde, I've got Hack the Planet, which is a climate-change themed Forged in the Dark cyberpunk game. It's solid, with some very neat ideas, but I've not had a chance to play it yet.

I've had great fun with The Sprawl, but I find it's best suited to one-off or mini-series style play (up to about 5 missions).

I was just thinking about how great a Forged in the Dark cyberpunk game would be the other day, actually. But i also don't think i've heard of one existing.

*Oh apparently there IS one, i stand corrected

I'm slightly tuned in to the forged in the dark design community, and I think I've seen at least a couple more cyberpunk or cyberpunk-adjacent ideas in development, too.

I've never really clicked with the Sprawl. It always feels like it's too restrictive and too open-ended at the same time, and I've never felt like the framework is good enough to hack it into submission.

Friends at the Table did a lot with Technoir. I've never played it, but it comes pretty highly recommended.

kazooka wrote:

I've never really clicked with the Sprawl. It always feels like it's too restrictive and too open-ended at the same time, and I've never felt like the framework is good enough to hack it into submission.

You've definitely got to buy in to its assumptions to have a successful game. Almost completely mission-based, in particular.

humble bundle has a bundle on all the old cyberpunk books