NFL 2020: Week 14

I have a confession: I don't really get Matthew "Matt" Stafford.

I mean, I get that he's a big-armed veteran QB, someone who has been in the league 12 years with the same team, someone who has thrown for more than 44,000 yards (17th all time), someone who probably will end his career among the top 10 QBs in yardage, passing TDs and maybe completions, too. He holds a few NFL records, including most throws in one season (a lord-almighty 727) and got to 20K, 30K and 40K passing yards faster than anyone else.

But I don't get why people think Stafford is a good QB.

He has never won a division title.

He has never won a playoff game.

He got shut out by the daggone Panthers before Thanksgiving. Shut out! By the Panthers! Whose defense features at most six NFL-quality starters! And then his coach and GM got fired a week later.

The kicker: For five of those seasons Stafford was throwing to Calvin Damn Johnson, who's probably (Legion?) going to the HoF some day.

I have been pondering Stafford since Drew Magary devoted the lede of last week's Jambaroo to defending Stafford as a good QB, a cool guy and someone who "has rarely, if ever, done anything hate-able on or off the field."

NFL Watchers seem to think Stafford will be a free agent after 2020. After 12 years, the Lions seem ready to divorce themselves from their 32-yr-old Face of the Franchise (can you name another Lion?) and take a flamethrower to the team to rid it of the Matt Patricia stench. He seems likely to join the Andy Dalton-Joe Flacco club — guys who were QB1 with a team for a good long while and are just now A Guy hoping to get some backup reps.

If someone can convince me that Stafford is more than just A Guy, please go ahead. But he plays for the Lions, and, like death and taxes, there are just some things even the best of 'em can't overcome.

WEEK 13

Man, what a weird, wild week.

The Steelers finally lost.

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You heard me.

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The Raiders needed a walk-off heave from the Lovely and Talented Derek Carr to beat the Jets of all teams:

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This dude looked like an MVP even if he is kinda goofy:

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The Giants (a) beat the Seahawks, who we used to think were good, and (b) won their fifth (!) straight and now lead the NFC Eeek.

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And Cam had only 24 more passing yards than the Patriots had points (45). Still, tho:

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Anyway, Week 13 was bonkers.

WEEK 14 SCHEDULE
(with coverage maps)

A lot of compelling and watchable games this week except in the Sunday afternoon slot.

Thursday: Patriots at Rams. Yes!

Sunday early: The best of a good bunch are Vikings-Bucs, Cards-Giants and Chiefs-Dolphins. And then there are not-so-interesting matchups — Titans-Jaguars, Texans-Bears, Broncos-Panthers and the Andy Dalton Memorial Bowl (Cowboys-Bengals)

Sunday late: Jets-Seahawks, Colts-Raiders, Washington-Niners, Saints-Eagles, Falcons-Chargers, Packers-Lions. I'm getting Saints-Eagles in my market. Hard pass (which is unlike a Taysom Hill pass, which is soft and wobbly)

Sunday night: Steelers-Bills. Yes!

Monday: Ravens-Browns. Also yes!

Week 13: return of Lamar.

Yeah Dallas sucks but still he ran and threw all over them. Good game to get the rust off

I'm willing to give Stafford a pass and call it the curse of the Lions but really need to see him on another team for 2 years I think. Or 1 if it's a disaster.

The Calvin Johnson stuff tho is hard to ignore cause ya. He was inhuman.

That said I'm not sure what 2021 teams would be the best slide in fit.

The Chicago Bears would be fairly hilarious being the same division and if he elevated them right away to competitors for the division vs the Packers. Or if the Bears turn into the Lions then we know it's a Stafford thing.

Enix wrote:

But I don't get why people think Stafford is a good QB.

He has never won a division title.

He has never won a playoff game.

Well yeah, he plays for the Lions. Barry Sanders could only drag that franchise to one playoff win in his career.

Stafford has dragged Jaguars/Browns caliber teams kicking and screaming to a near-.500 career record.

Yes he played with Megatron. Now name another legitimate weapon off the top of your head that he's had over the course of 13 years. OK he's got Kenny Golladay now. Beyond that? Well, Golden Tate I guess, though given his career before and after Detroit, he just looks like a guy that built numbers because he was fed by Stafford. There was that one year final gasp of Reggie Bush production. Are we really going to call Marvin Jones a weapon? How about the who's-who of unimpressive running backs: Theo Riddick, Ameer Abdullah, Joique Bell, Mikel Leshoure?

Also try naming a quality defensive player on the Lions over that span that's not Suh. Darius Slay for a little bit. Uhhh... Ziggy Ansah had a bunch of sacks that one year.

Am I forgetting anyone? Well looking at a Detroit News writer's Lions All-Decade Team of the '10s, sure doesn't look like it. That's a roster that finishes 3rd in the NFC North.

Now, I'll grant you, Stafford isn't a *great* QB. His numbers exceed his actual quality level.

But merely "good"? Yeah, he's good. He's someone that an average team could be legitimately competitive with.

*Legion* wrote:

... Are we really going to call Marvin Jones a weapon? How about the who's-who of unimpressive running backs: Theo Riddick, Ameer Abdullah, Joique Bell, Mikel Leshoure?

I really hope you looked up that bit of trivia and don't keep it in your brain somewhere. That's a bad use of brain space if you had those guys memorized.

That said, you might have made up all of those names and I wouldn't have picked up on it.

Does Vegas do prop bets on games getting kicked to Tuesday over COVID?

*Legion* wrote:

Am I forgetting anyone?

Jason Hanson was a decent kicker.

Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

... Are we really going to call Marvin Jones a weapon? How about the who's-who of unimpressive running backs: Theo Riddick, Ameer Abdullah, Joique Bell, Mikel Leshoure?

I really hope you looked up that bit of trivia and don't keep it in your brain somewhere. That's a bad use of brain space if you had those guys memorized.

That said, you might have made up all of those names and I wouldn't have picked up on it.

The only name on that list that I did need to look up to remember was Mikel Leshoure.

How can anyone forget a name like Joique Bell?

*Legion* wrote:
Enix wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

... Are we really going to call Marvin Jones a weapon? How about the who's-who of unimpressive running backs: Theo Riddick, Ameer Abdullah, Joique Bell, Mikel Leshoure?

I really hope you looked up that bit of trivia and don't keep it in your brain somewhere. That's a bad use of brain space if you had those guys memorized.

That said, you might have made up all of those names and I wouldn't have picked up on it.

The only name on that list that I did need to look up to remember was Mikel Leshoure.

How can anyone forget a name like Joique Bell?

They've spent more 2nd and 3rd round picks on RBs who did nada than anyone else I can recall. Absolutely nada.

Kevin Smith was good for the season and a half he lasted before he was broken. That was...a decade ago?

*Legion* wrote:

The only name on that list that I did need to look up to remember was Mikel Leshoure.

He was decent at the University of Illinois. Which is notable because he managed to be decent at Illinois.

Stafford's a good enough QB to where if you'd put him on a good team he'd have had a shot at All-Pro every year and on a bad team he'd be, uh, Matt Stafford.

*Legion* wrote:

Are we really going to call Marvin Jones a weapon?

Yes.

Back to my hole.

Also where is Jahvid Best in your list of RBs?

Carlbear95 wrote:

Also where is Jahvid Best in your list of RBs?

Near the top of the Most Ironically Named RBs list?

Carlbear95 wrote:

Also where is Jahvid Best in your list of RBs?

He's on the all decade team's IR.

Yeah, it was definitely unfortunate. He was so good at Cal, and I watched him get put into the ambulance against Oregon State and he was never the same. Was definitely a sick-to-your-stomach moment, as you saw his mom and family go onto the field. Excited he got an opportunity with the Lions and I believe he did have a few good games, but yeah, just never could stay healthy.

None of the Lions RBs can stay healthy. They're cursed!

Or they're super talented guys who fell in the draft due to injury concerns.

I also left LeGarratte Blount off the list. He started 8 games for them in 2018, and ran for 2.7 yards per carry.

Looked up the numbers, and Joique Bell is the team's leading rusher of the Stafford years, with a grand total of 2235 yards. Kevin Smith beats him out in career terms with 2346 yards, but his biggest year (976 yards) was the season before Stafford was drafted.

Those two just barely make it above the Trent Richardson Line (2032 career rushing yards).

Well if we're going to pick players with just a few offensive snaps on the Lions we can add CJ Anderson too.

... I can do this all day long

Maybe what I find so weird is that Stafford is one of a few QBs who has stayed on the same team for so long and has basically nothing to show for it.

Consider his peers in that regard:

Tom Brady: 6 rings, GOAT status

Peyton Manning: 2 rings (one of which he didn't deserve), tons of records, GOAT 1-B to Brady's 1-A

Eli Manning: 2 rings and lots of memes

Drew Brees: 1 ring, all-time passing records, lots of broken ribs; benched for a converted tight end

Aaron Rodgers: 1 ring, in the playoffs nearly every year, terrible footwork, one of my favorite guys to watch

Big Ben: Two rings (almost 3), rapist (alleged)

Russell Wilson: 1 ring, should have been two; almost always in the playoffs

Philip Rivers: No rings but five playoff wins over six seasons (and maybe 1-2 more this year)

A lot of those teams were sorry at some point, and they always found a way to come back. And the Lions? How much blame should Stafford get for not being able to drag a bad-to-mediocre team into the good-to-great zone?

Well, consider his peers, indeed.

He's basically right outside that list of great QBs (and Eli), which is also the reason he couldn't bring his team to be better. Maybe if he played in the NFC East he'd have more Rings than Eli.

You know who's now 32nd on the all-time list of NFL rushing TDs?

This guy:

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Also this guy:

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And this guy, too:

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From SI:

Sports Illustrated wrote:

So a curious thing has happened in the five years since Newton broke the QB record. With no more quarterbacks left to pass, he has taken on a more daunting task: passing running backs. You know, the guys whose full-time job it is to run the ball into the end zone. No running back is safe. He has leapt over career totals of Pro Bowlers, superstars and Hall of Famers as easily as he leaps over piles of powerless defenders at the goal line.

This year alone, he has gone from 55th on the list (tied with Mike Alstott and Jamal Lewis) to 32nd (tied with Steven Jackson, Gerald Riggs and Steve Van Buren*). He has equaled or surpassed six Pro Football Hall of Famers in 11 games as a Patriot: Van Buren, Thurman Thomas, Larry Csonka, Lenny Moore, O.J. Simpson and Terrell Davis. Again, those are Hall of Fame running backs. None of them ran the ball into the end zone more than Cam Newton.

Who else has he passed this season? Maurice Jones-Drew, Eddie George, Ricky Williams and Hershel Walker, among others. Guys famous mostly for being handed the football and running it beyond the line of scrimmage, often not stopping until they’ve scored a touchdown. Fred Taylor, Willis McGahee, Ahman Green, Brandon Jacobs. The list goes on and on with players who had really good careers … by running back standards.

* who rushed for 69 TDs and nearly 6,000 yards for the Eagles from 1944 to 1951; also known as "Wham Bam," "Supersonic Steve" and "Blockbuster," which are all HoF nicknames.

P.S. The only active players with more rushing TDs than Cam: AP (with 117, which is fourth all-time), Frank Gore and Shady McCoy. Todd Gurley is two back of Cam.

Enix wrote:

How much blame should Stafford get for not being able to drag a bad-to-mediocre team into the good-to-great zone?

I have a hard time suggesting that a guy that is solidly second tier starting QB is somehow in the wrong because he's not super-duper-elite-Hall-of-Fame tier.

He shouldn't be measured by an "Aaron Rodgers or bust" standard just because he plays for an ultra-sh*tty franchise.

Enix wrote:

Peyton Manning: 2 rings (one of which he didn't deserve), tons of records, GOAT 1-B to Brady's 1-A

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That's my recency bias. Marino was better than both of those chumps.

Enix wrote:

That's my recency bias. Marino was better than both of those chumps.

You misspelled Montana.

MARINO.

MONTANA.

It ends here...inside the Octagon!

I'm Mike Goldberg and WELCOME to UFC 300: Rear Naked Pass, where we're in for another action packed night in beautiful Las Vegas as WE are set to find out, once and for all, WHO the greatest football passer is of all time. Joining me, as always, is my good buddy, Joe Rogan. Joe! How excited are YOU for tonight's matchup?

Well Goldy, I can't say I'm excited...I'm INSANELY excited! We've been watching these two MONSTERS for YEARRRRRS and now we finally get to see them face off with everything on the line. The winner will be crowned as the best ever and the loser will have to do some real soul searching as he tries to pick up the pieces of his shattered self worth. I CAN'T WAIT!

You can’t spell Brady without the Cheat. Mf’er.

Top_Shelf wrote:

MARINO.

MONTANA.

It ends here...inside the Octagon!

No, it ended on the field inside Stanford Stadium at Super Bowl XIX. 38-16, Montana.

Hahaha.

I'm still taking Marino with my first overall pick in All Pro Football 2K8.

*Legion* wrote:
Top_Shelf wrote:

MARINO.

MONTANA.

It ends here...inside the Octagon!

No, it ended on the field inside Stanford Stadium at Super Bowl XIX. 38-16, Montana.

That's sort of like saying the GOAT debate between Brady and BDN ended at Super Bowl LII because Foles was MVP *and* caught more TD passes than Brady and the Eagles won.

Is that the argument you really want to make?

PS: Marino > Foles > Brady > Montana