Assassin's Creed Valhalla RPG Catch-All

Oh, and one more thing: Christianity is fundamentally incompatible with the mythos of the franchise. It is unsurprising for Christianity or any other religion to be disrespected by an Assassin’s Creed story.

Similarly, it is unlikely that the Norse pantheon is intended to be seen as superior. Odin may talk directly to Eivor in this game, but any such conversation is probably taking place between some time hopping Isu consciousness and Layla. I have no idea if that’s really the case, I’m just basing it on other AC games.

BadKen wrote:

I’m not familiar enough with the link between Viking culture and Naziism to make a judgment call on that aspect of the game. And frankly I have zero interest in educating myself regarding that association. I couldn’t care less what Nazis think about anything. However, based on the viewpoint of the rest of the article, my strong suspicion is that any portrayal of that in the game is incidental.

The historian's position seems to be that throughout all history, there are a few recurring strategies for misrepresenting cultures. Most of the strategies that aren't just blatant demonization of enemies are about

1) ignoring the existence of >90% of the actual people have actually ever existed (helots, serfs, thralls, etc.),
2) justifying a brutal political view of the world where enslavement is fine, justified, and necessary,
3) or similarly justifying colonialism.

The complaint isn't that the past should be represented with 100% accuracy, but that the corners cut here do line up propaganda that has shaped the broader understanding of the past in ways that have had gruesome consequences. It's not that Ubisoft started with real history, then had to shave off the challenging parts. They started with the old, conservative misrepresentation and put a little spin on it.

But we're not really lambasting Ubisoft here. Just as you can write a screenplay that doesn't pass the Bechdel test, and that's fine. The real issue is when 90% of screenplays don't pass. Likewise when 90% of depictions of past cultures (especially those we might identify with) all agree in their own whitewashing, that's a cultural problem for us in the present. That's the actual thing we dislike, the pattern. Valhalla is just another instance of the pattern.

Alternatively, if every storyteller had there own take on Vikings, each riffing off of a shared historical understanding in severely inaccurate yet distinct ways, then I don't think historians would have much to complain about.

Danjo Olivaw wrote:

But we're not really lambasting Ubisoft here. Just as you can write a screenplay that doesn't pass the Bechdel test, and that's fine. The real issue is when 90% of screenplays don't pass. Likewise when 90% of depictions of past cultures (especially those we might identify with) all agree in their own whitewashing, that's a cultural problem for us in the present. That's the actual thing we dislike, the pattern. Valhalla is just another instance of the pattern.

If that's the case, then the piece could just as well be titled "Man Yells at Cloud."

People creating popular media are going to use common popular (mis)conceptions about the world and weave it into their media. The creators are not interested in challenging the public. Certainly not in AAA games. Indie games fill that role nicely, and the indie game market seems pretty healthy right now. With the possible exception of big publishers eating up gobs of independent studios and looking for second helpings.

Honestly I can't think of a AAA game I've played that has made me examine my moral outlook. As long as AAA games are pew pew, brrrrrt, stabstab, and vroomvroom, I don't see that changing. Movies are a different story. While the movie industry is sort of on hold right now, the trend leading up to last year was towards even blockbusters sneaking some radical ideas into films. Again, indies lead the way in challenging peoples' worldview, but slow progress was being made even in big budget pictures. There's still a long way to go, but things are starting to happen in movies now in a way they are not happening in video games.

A good indicator of a movie or game that is at least trying is cries from Angry Internet Men that the item in question was "ruined by SJWs" or "too political."

I must say, it is definitely very interesting to me to read a historian's perspective on the corners cut by AC developers to make their story work in a AAA world. As you say, though, Ubisoft isn't intentionally playing propagandist.

The Animus is not a time machine, the Animus is a holodeck.

And if Layla et al want to run around in DNA memories but censor out the most terrible bits, they can do that. There you go, there's your canon reason for the omissions.

Similarly, when I go to Colonial Williamsburg I like to look at cool buildings and costumes, but that's about all the realism I want.

I made it to England, build my blacksmith and killed one of the ancient targets. Now on my way to getting my first alliance. There isn't too much to say that couldn't be said about the latest prior AC games.

- It's really nice looking , even if I had to dial down anti-aliasing to med along with character textures. I dialed shadows to medium too. My frame rate usually stays within 30-50 fps. Before the changes I was having major slowdowns.
- The main characters are pretty well done and the story is good enough for me to enjoy. I don't think they are as good as the last too though. Some of the side content is kinda bad.
- Combat is OK. It's fun to stealth kill. Movement and attacking sometimes feels like it's only in 4 directions - it's just not smooth feeling.
- I struggle to find the way to best play it. For my play style, following icons is boring. I've turned off the compass and playing on pathfinder. That doesn't really fix it though. I'll try to find stuff without looking at the wealth / mystery / artifact icons on the map but inevitably I see it when looking at the map for other reasons. If I never consult the map I'll miss way too many resources.
- Like the compass, I don't like using the bird. To me, there is nothing fun about being able to magically see where all the resources and other goodies are. I wish they could make that aspect mpre natural.

All that said, with the good and bad I like it enough. The big question will be will I like it enough to finish. I finished Origins and bailed on Odyssey. I think I played it too soon after Origins. For my $15 of UbiSoft+ I'll be happy to play as much as I enjoy and not feel bad if I want to stop.

Far enough into this where I feel like I can lay down some solid thoughts:

The free-running system is as buggy as it's ever been. I often jump to the wrong thing, I've got the old AC problem of trying to climb somewhere and the game just not being able to figure out how to move a foot or so up, and I can't get down from anything without throwing myself off of a three story cliff. This was largely a solved problem a game or two back. I don't know why it's taken several steps backwards.

Combat is probably as good as its ever been, but with a few hiccups. I'm playing on hard, and beating boss-type enemies like fanatics is incredibly difficult. Attacks don't always follow a set pattern, which is kind of critical to this style of game. Enemies often change up their attack patterns after hitting certain damage thresholds, but it also feels like sometimes the scripting gets reset mid-attack, and you're suddenly looking at combos that don't normally happen.

The male voice actor is so much better than the female option. Which kind of sucks because it appears that female Aivor is the canon option for most of the game (other than some spoilery sections). The game also occasionally has dialogue that is clearly intended for female Aivor, so it's not really agnostic about the choice.

Hard to say what the story's about so far. Story's sort of incidental to an AC game, but it's nice when it's at least semi-coherent. I do like what I've seen of it so far. They do a bit of a head fake early on where you have to make a choice with lasting consequences based on evidence you've gathered. As far as I can tell, they don't do that ever again, though I have played out a story where they pretended to, then went, 'lol, nm!" and ignored your choice.

Spoiler:

The Asgard stuff is kind of tedious and I'm not sure why. I really think AC needs to be running in some version of reality for everything to work right. I'm also not sure what my takeaway is supposed to be with the Asgard plot, even though I'm very deep into that storyline. Generally in AC, mythological gods turn out to be Isau, a race of hyper-intelligent beings that preceeded humans before they were wiped out by a freak solar storm. The Asgard stuff seems to be playing very close to the mythology, with only hints of Isau here and there.

edit: Edited out dumb-cis-guy-rambling-about-trans-experience-poorly stuff. Supportive but ignorant, I suspect.

I've put a good amount of time into the game, over 40 hours. I am around power level 140. The more I have played the more I appreciate some of the changes. I was initially mixed and some of my criticisms still persist. The skill allocation system is a mess, probably the biggest step backwards from Odyssey. Plus the abilities are less useful and less fun to use. There are 3 or 4 I use regularly and that's it. I'm not a fan of the gear system. I understand people did not like the regular inventory management that came with Odyssey's flood of gear, but they scaled it back way too much. In my 40 hours I have never been excited by finding gear. I don't understand why they removed the transmogrification system. I enjoyed changing Kassandra's look regularly. It could add some excitement to getting new gear. Even if I don't like the stats, at least opens up a new look. The settlement mechanic hasn't really grabbed me. I'm never there and don't feel a drive to keep growing it. Most things it adds seem minor, like now I can turn in fish and get rewards.

That being said I am enjoying the game. I like the combat. I think the combat works better for fighting groups of enemies. I liked the 1 on1 combat in Odyssey, but it broke down when you were fighting more people. I haven't had that happen often in Valhalla. I think the quest system is interesting. Odyssey had a ton of side quests to the point that it would be difficult to sort through them and remember what happened in earlier steps. The quest system here is more focused, but I never feel like I'm constrained without interesting things to do. I've met interesting side characters. I did not like some of the initial side character from the first pledge I did, but other's have been a lot better. I'm currently doing the missions in Lunden and the 2 characters your work with are great. The game is beautiful and so expansive. I initially thought it would be a tighter more limited game, but that is very wrong. I think I'm over leveled. I'm doing missions in areas where my power level is 30 points higher than recommended. I've only used two weapons. I played the first 30 hours using a big 2 handed sword. I recently switched to the blacksmith's hammer (I feel like Thor) and it is so satisfying they way it feels on impact. There is a brutal finishing move where I break both their knees which drops them and then uppercut them with this huge hammer. The first time I saw it I cringed it was so brutal. I like puzzling out how to get to items. Usually there are interesting little things you need to figure out to gain access to areas. They do start to repeat though.

I think the Assassin creed series could be the best running RPG series going right now. It is amazing how much stuff they can fit in these games. It seems like it would take 5 years or more to stuff all this in there. This one is a little buggier. I've only had one or two that caused me to reload a save. Most are just goofy things. I'm really looking forward to what they can do when they design a game entirely for the new gen.

If there's one bit of advice I can give, it's for people to switch up your weapons and weapon combos. The only weapon I haven't liked is the flail but everything else is distinct. Currently, I'm using a Dane Axe and it has a lot of weight to it. I've also regularly used the hammer or hand axes. Both with shields or dual wielding. Oddly, one of the most fun weapons is a dagger and shield. Just stabby stabby all day long. Not very effective against enemies with big health pools but does allow you to get damage off very quickly.

I like the smaller inventory change but, yes, the lack of visual variety for armour is a bit of step backwards.

Just got to Oxenforshire last night and the story is starting to pick up. Discord and mistrust has seeped its way into a few key relationships.

kazooka wrote:

Far enough into this where I feel like I can lay down some solid thoughts:

The free-running system is as buggy as it's ever been. I often jump to the wrong thing, I've got the old AC problem of trying to climb somewhere and the game just not being able to figure out how to move a foot or so up, and I can't get down from anything without throwing myself off of a three story cliff. This was largely a solved problem a game or two back. I don't know why it's taken several steps backwards.

Combat is probably as good as its ever been, but with a few hiccups. I'm playing on hard, and beating boss-type enemies like fanatics is incredibly difficult. Attacks don't always follow a set pattern, which is kind of critical to this style of game. Enemies often change up their attack patterns after hitting certain damage thresholds, but it also feels like sometimes the scripting gets reset mid-attack, and you're suddenly looking at combos that don't normally happen.

The male voice actor is so much better than the female option. Which kind of sucks because it appears that female Aivor is the canon option for most of the game (other than some spoilery sections). The game also occasionally has dialogue that is clearly intended for female Aivor, so it's not really agnostic about the choice.

Hard to say what the story's about so far. Story's sort of incidental to an AC game, but it's nice when it's at least semi-coherent. I do like what I've seen of it so far. They do a bit of a head fake early on where you have to make a choice with lasting consequences based on evidence you've gathered. As far as I can tell, they don't do that ever again, though I have played out a story where they pretended to, then went, 'lol, nm!" and ignored your choice.

Spoiler:

The Asgard stuff is kind of tedious and I'm not sure why. I really think AC needs to be running in some version of reality for everything to work right. I'm also not sure what my takeaway is supposed to be with the Asgard plot, even though I'm very deep into that storyline. Generally in AC, mythological gods turn out to be Isau, a race of hyper-intelligent beings that preceeded humans before they were wiped out by a freak solar storm. The Asgard stuff seems to be playing very close to the mythology, with only hints of Isau here and there.

edit: Edited out dumb-cis-guy-rambling-about-trans-experience-poorly stuff. Supportive but ignorant, I suspect.

Regarding your spoiler:

Spoiler:

I'm only 30 minutes in, but Asgard is so boring at the moment. Also, it's a tall zone, so lots of tedious climbing.

I agree with just about everything in your post. Enjoying the game, but after Odyssey I'm disappointed in some of the steps backwards.

Agree with the points above, especially on Asgard and the other one where it can take some time to get to the map markers.

One extra thing for me, even though I am enjoying the game. It's the lack of quests. I've a few in my log but they are more general, there only ever seems to be those, one MQ note but no side quests. I know many of the white markers are essentially side quests but they do not get tracked at all. Feels more bare than previous games.

I have about 10 hours in so far. I'm enjoying it, especially the aesthetic of England - autumn trees, rolling hills, foggy fens, spooky nights, crumbling Roman ruins. The aesthetics alone have me aimlessly exploring more than I have since Syndicate, another game whose setting and mood were perfectly tailored to my tastes.

I'm still coming to grips with how stripped down the game feels in comparison to Odyssey. Some of it's just a matter of presentation - enemy camps or raid targets don't have a literal checklist of things to do, but you're still going through and trying to find all the treasure chests. The way icons on the map are just indistinct circles does a lot (for me) to combat the feeling of open world icon overload. Functionally it's the same as the question marks in Odyssey or Witcher 3, right? But for some reason it feels different. I enjoy the novelty of some locations just being simple puzzles that require less than 5 minutes of your time to complete. The cursed areas I've encountered are really simple, but what a mood they have!

I'm trying to decide if I like the lack of full side quests. World Events have a nice bite size feel to them, but that also makes them a little more forgettable. The dev comment I read said that side quests in previous games made since since you're a character with established authority (medjay or misthios) and rapport with the people of Egypt and Greece. In England, you're an invader, so why would people trust you with a long involved side quest? I can see where they're coming from. I just don't know yet if I like it.

Anyway, still really early so I'm sure my opinions will solidify and/or change as the game goes on. But I am enjoying it, and aesthetics go a long way for me, so if nothing else I'm sure the vibe alone will carry me through this game.

kborom wrote:

I know many of the white markers are essentially side quests but they do not get tracked at all. Feels more bare than previous games.

I have read that this is an intentional decision to avoid having players fill up their quest log with partially completed quests. The idea is to give more immediacy to side quests so players do them when they run across them. It does seem like there are fewer side quests, though, at least in Norway.

If anything, there are far more sidequests they are just much smaller scale. Almost every "world event" has been under 5 minutes. Only one has actually lead me from the immediate area that I started it in and that just involved crossing a shallow river.

Most of the World Events (side quests) I've encountered took less than 10 minutes to complete, for what it's worth. The icon stays on your map if you leave it midway through, but I'm not sure how it handles any progression you've made when you come back (some take place in one place, others have you walking around a somewhat larger area).

1.0.4 patch coming tomorrow with a bunch of fixes.

beanman101283 wrote:

1.0.4 patch coming tomorrow with a bunch of fixes.

Added an option that will automatically assign all nodes on the path when acquiring a central skill.

Thank Odin!

beanman101283 wrote:

1.0.4 patch coming tomorrow with a bunch of fixes.

I hope they fix the stealth system, it seems pretty broken right now. I’ve been crawling through brush outside a wall of a camp just scout around and all the sudden some guard 80 yards away will spot me. And it’s not a slow progression where they go from suspicious to full on attack. It’s like one second and it’s on. It’s frustrating and I’m pretty much given up on stealth outside of sniping guys from a distance.

IUMogg wrote:
beanman101283 wrote:

1.0.4 patch coming tomorrow with a bunch of fixes.

I hope they fix the stealth system, it seems pretty broken right now. I’ve been crawling through brush outside a wall of a camp just scout around and all the sudden some guard 80 yards away will spot me. And it’s not a slow progression where they go from suspicious to full on attack. It’s like one second and it’s on. It’s frustrating and I’m pretty much given up on stealth outside of sniping guys from a distance.

Have you tried adjusting the stealth difficulty? I recall reading an article about someone who had similar frustrations, and lowering the difficulty helped.

Started this up on my PS4 at about 10pm last night. Next thing I knew, it was near midnight. I got to the king's village, lost a drinking contest & showed up drunk to see the king, but he was busy.

Yup, I love it. It's still got the fiddly Assassin's Creed "you didn't want to vault through that window, you wanted to climb the wall and hang off that ceiling beam instead" contextual controls, but it's the environments that draw me in to these games, and they are stunning. I was just marvelling at how it looks when Eivor is wading/crouchwalking through snow. Can't wait to get to England.

Aristophan wrote:
IUMogg wrote:
beanman101283 wrote:

1.0.4 patch coming tomorrow with a bunch of fixes.

I hope they fix the stealth system, it seems pretty broken right now. I’ve been crawling through brush outside a wall of a camp just scout around and all the sudden some guard 80 yards away will spot me. And it’s not a slow progression where they go from suspicious to full on attack. It’s like one second and it’s on. It’s frustrating and I’m pretty much given up on stealth outside of sniping guys from a distance.

Have you tried adjusting the stealth difficulty? I recall reading an article about someone who had similar frustrations, and lowering the difficulty helped.

I might mess with it tonight. I have it set to the default. I've played almost all the AC games, so I feel I know how the stealth usually works, and it feels off in Valhalla. I don't mind it being harder or having less advantages, like the inability to tag guys with the bird, but I do want it to be consistent and make sense.

Felix Threepaper wrote:

Started this up on my PS4 at about 10pm last night. Next thing I knew, it was near midnight. I got to the king's village, lost a drinking contest & showed up drunk to see the king, but he was busy.

Yup, I love it. It's still got the fiddly Assassin's Creed "you didn't want to vault through that window, you wanted to climb the wall and hang off that ceiling beam instead" contextual controls, but it's the environments that draw me in to these games, and they are stunning. I was just marvelling at how it looks when Eivor is wading/crouchwalking through snow. Can't wait to get to England.

My advice is to not spent too much time in Norway. It's such a small slice and you don't want to get burnt out. Plus you can return there whenever after you get to England.

IUMogg wrote:
Aristophan wrote:
IUMogg wrote:
beanman101283 wrote:

1.0.4 patch coming tomorrow with a bunch of fixes.

I hope they fix the stealth system, it seems pretty broken right now. I’ve been crawling through brush outside a wall of a camp just scout around and all the sudden some guard 80 yards away will spot me. And it’s not a slow progression where they go from suspicious to full on attack. It’s like one second and it’s on. It’s frustrating and I’m pretty much given up on stealth outside of sniping guys from a distance.

Have you tried adjusting the stealth difficulty? I recall reading an article about someone who had similar frustrations, and lowering the difficulty helped.

I might mess with it tonight. I have it set to the default. I've played almost all the AC games, so I feel I know how the stealth usually works, and it feels off in Valhalla. I don't mind it being harder or having less advantages, like the inability to tag guys with the bird, but I do want it to be consistent and make sense.

Felix Threepaper wrote:

Started this up on my PS4 at about 10pm last night. Next thing I knew, it was near midnight. I got to the king's village, lost a drinking contest & showed up drunk to see the king, but he was busy.

Yup, I love it. It's still got the fiddly Assassin's Creed "you didn't want to vault through that window, you wanted to climb the wall and hang off that ceiling beam instead" contextual controls, but it's the environments that draw me in to these games, and they are stunning. I was just marvelling at how it looks when Eivor is wading/crouchwalking through snow. Can't wait to get to England.

My advice is to not spent too much time in Norway. It's such a small slice and you don't want to get burnt out. Plus you can return there whenever after you get to England.

Will do!

I thought I was missing something with the UI with not being able to tag enemies with the bird -- I was like "Oh well, I guess I'll have to remember where they are".

Odin’s sight is an effective short range replacement for bird-tagging. Pulse away a few times as you enter an enemy camp and you will usually manage to get the drop on most enemies, save the eagle-eyed bowmen who randomly spot you from 100m out.

It’s worth doing *some* exploring in Norway, as there are several good weapons (war hammer 4 lyfe), armour and a lot of carbon ingots around. I kept getting chewed up whenever I strayed outside of the first two areas in England, but an extended trip back to Norway to get some better gear really helped.

I really hope the patch fixes the LOD issues I’ve been seeing on PS4 Pro, as well as the constant glitches and bugs. Quite often I’ll be halfway up a tall building and it’s still low-res polygons instead of textured assets. And woodland that is perhaps 20m away in-game is flat, featureless brown planes rather than low detail bushes/flowers. Also lots of glitchy audio, interactions not working etc. After the polish of the previous two games it’s a bit odd.

I have been using the frequent crashes as a reason to take a break, so silver lining I guess.

That said, I guess I need to go back to Norway as I don't have the hammer yet. This is despite killing dozens of enemies with them.

Patch seems to have really helped. The super distracting pop-in on PS4 is way better and smoother, it makes the world seem much richer and detailed. Before it felt sparse and empty.

Now to stealth up some bases and see if the bowmen are mere humans again.

I went straight into a stealth build and haven’t experienced Ted with anything else. So, take this with a grain of salt, but...

Stealth appears to work slightly differently in Valhalla. For starters, as others have mentioned, you can change the stealth difficulty. Outside of that, there are runes, skills, and armor sets that allow you to add to your stealth skill. All of those things interact with one another to determine how easily you can be detected.

Since you said you thought you set the stealth difficulty to the default, I would start looking at your gear and skills. Have you been going down the Raven path trees and picking up the stealth bonuses? What about the actual Raven nodes? I (think they have bonuses to stealth as well, but I don’t remember for sure.) Are you wearing Raven armor or are you wearing Wolf or Bear armor? Have you applied any stealth runes to your gear?

Long story, short - just because you’re in the distance or in the bushes, I wouldn’t just automatically assume you can’t be seen. Again, I went straight into stealth trees and gear myself and haven’t done any testing of the other trees and gear. So, I could be off-base here, but there is a definite appearance that the stealth system now uses all of those things in conjunction with one another. I would play around with them and see what you find out.

One final note, I know this is an AC game and you’re free to play how you want - hell, as I said, I’m playing stealth as well - but Valhalla leans pretty hard into the Viking aspects of open, violent combat and even Eivor refuses to hide his/her arm blade. The game doesn’t have all the things that made that a dicey proposition in previous games. Citizens don’t rat you out to guards and mercs (zealots) when you murder someone, no one is coming to hunt you down, and it’s very easy - even with a stealth build - to wade straight into an enemy village and start cutting through hoards of enemies with AOE and elemental/poison attacks.

My favorite thing in the patch is that the skill tree now shows all the abilities, so you can actually plan ahead a bit.

beanman101283 wrote:

My favorite thing in the patch is that the skill tree now shows all the abilities, so you can actually plan ahead a bit.

I did kind of like the mystery of not knowing what would open up. But then after I completed the melee tree and wanted to spec into Raven to grab auto-loot and no fall damage I spent at least 30 points and didn’t find them yet.

I do truly love that respec costs nothing. Should be the standard in all games.

Can I turn that off? I'm really enjoying not know what ability is coming next. Like opening a present.

Vector wrote:

Can I turn that off? I'm really enjoying not know what ability is coming next. Like opening a present.

I dug around the options and couldn't find a way.

Btw, if anyone else is playing on PC, my Ubisoft username is Sean914 if anyone wants to get each others' Jomsvikings in their games.

beanman101283 wrote:
Vector wrote:

Can I turn that off? I'm really enjoying not know what ability is coming next. Like opening a present.

I dug around the options and couldn't find a way.

Btw, if anyone else is playing on PC, my Ubisoft username is Sean914 if anyone wants to get each others' Jomsvikings in their games.

Drat.

Friend request sent. I hate my Jomsviking. He's the least threatening one they could generate. Tempted to strip him down to nothing but a hammer.