Ghost of Tsushima Catch All

The loot and RPG stuff is in the free multiplayer mode. Otherwise, it's not really an RPG.

Maclintok wrote:

Hey all. There’s a modest discount on this for the Black Friday sale. I’m curious how much RPG ness there is? If there’s more that’s actually better for me. Will I be looting cool armour and weapons? Playing with stats?

None, no, and no, respectively. There's basically no RPG DNA here.

There are multiple skill trees and skill points you earn, there are charm slots, and you can customize your clothing, sword, and horse appearance. There are different armour sets that drastically change your look and offer special bonuses. There is crafting and upgrading your equipment. There is no looting of equipment. All equipment is tied to completing world events or quests.

There is no stat allocation. Only loot you gain is crafting materials. Jin’s physical appearance is static. You can choose the name of your horse, though.

I agree with Vector. I wouldn't say there is *no* RPG DNA, but it's RPG DNA in the way you get with a lot of modern action games: skill trees, slightly customizable loadout. It feels close to an Assassin's Creed. I wouldn't remotely call it an RPG, but the "RPG-inspired" touches have become ubiquitous in action games.

It’s slightly more an RPG than the mid-trilogy of AC games but the current three are full on RPGs in nearly every sense. It’s a very standard open-world action game in that regard, though.

Thanks everyone for their 2c.

I’ve had trouble making even mild dents into any open world game that’s come out in the last 3-4 years so this one probably won’t be much different.

I’m probably four or so hours in, and I’m finding two things that bother me.

First, the game loves the old “follow the NPC” idea way too much. Takes me back to, say, Assassin’s Creed 2, except only following allies. There’s nothing interesting about these walk and (sometimes) talks.

Second, the game seems to like to stretch its plot points to the breaking point. When they first gave me the structure of, hey, you need allies, go find Ishikawa and Makato, it seemed promising. When I did the first Ishikawa mission I thought, hey cool, now I have an ally and I’ll hear the resolution of this Tomoe student situation soon. Five or so missions later we are still looking to find Tomoe. Dispatching 8 groups of Mongols and doing a lot of walking in between a plot lead and a plot resolution led me to pretty much completely lose interest.

And then they didn’t even resolve it! The plot line ended and we haven’t found her. I’m guessing it’ll resolve eventually, but 6 hours down the line I am going to be even less interested than I am now.

I think the game would have been much better served if they had a dozen or so of these allies, each with two missions. If they have a dozen and they each have 6 missions, it’s going to get stale fast. And if they only have like 4 allies, it’ll feel like a half-baked idea.

Here’s hoping the rest of the game understands tempo a bit more.

The reason for the walk-and-talks is likely so they could do their best to squeeze information, exposition, and "character development" in there since it doesn't fit elsewhere.

As for the side quests, I actually like the manner in which they stretch them across the whole game, personally. Granted, this is also because these characters would be even more shallow and under-developed if they were just two or three missions. I admittedly liked Ishikawa's story, but some of the others... were adequate.

It's a shame, because I like what this game wants to do with its story, and in some ways manages to execute, but it's probably one of the weaker aspects of the title. That said, when one of your worst elements is basically "average" on the grand scale of video games, that's a pretty good place to be.

I liked the way they handled their side characters and the way that those characters' stories unspooled across the course of the game. It gave each character nuance and personality. It made them less like people-collectables you picked up like other icons on the map.

For me, it made the side characters feel more like party members in a JRPG. You're not using them constantly in battle, but you're finding out more about them over time and building sustained relationships. Their stories also intersect with the main plot in interesting ways.

I prefer that to the normal video game method of handling allies where you solve one problem for them, and they henceforth stand in their house and tell you they're grateful for what you did and they're ready to serve.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I liked the way they handled their side characters and the way that those characters' stories unspooled across the course of the game. It gave each character nuance and personality. It made them less like people-collectables you picked up like other icons on the map.

For me, it made the side characters feel more like party members in a JRPG. You're not using them constantly in battle, but you're finding out more about them over time and building sustained relationships. Their stories also intersect with the main plot in interesting ways.

I prefer that to the normal video game method of handling allies where you solve one problem for them, and they henceforth stand in their house and tell you they're grateful for what you did and they're ready to serve.

It's one of the strongest parts of the game for me for all the reasons you said. I like they each had their own motivations and reasons to keep secrets from you. I thought all of the side stories were intriguing and some had very powerful endings.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I prefer that to the normal video game method of handling allies where you solve one problem for them, and they henceforth stand in their house and tell you they're grateful for what you did and they're ready to serve.

And then tell you how you're the most wonderful person in the world.

I'm inclined to agree with ccesarano and ClockworkHouse, but, I also understand where Blind_Evil is coming from.

Ghost of Tsushima, like many samurai movies, can be slow-paced. There are periods of intense, thrilling action; but this is a game that demands you also have an interest in following wildlife around, composing haiku, and riding through the countryside with little happening.

Fortunately, you can ignore a lot of the slower stuff, if you want. But, to me, stretches of just enjoying the scenery and having conversations are as much of the experience as the setpiece missions.

Unfortunately, "follow me while I spill exposition" is a structure we haven't figured out a way to improve upon. It's slightly better than the Bioshock-era "I'm going to trap you in a little box while I spill exposition," at least. Providing exposition DURING an action scene, which I've seen games attempt, usually results in me missing the exposition. Beyond getting rid of exposition and conversations, I don't think anybody has been clever enough to come up with a better structure.

I would appreciate the drawn out characterization more if it was a little more evenly doled out I guess? Like, the amount of character development I’ve gotten from Ishikawa vs. the amount of time I’ve spent following him, trekking up to his dojo, and dispatching Mongols in the middle is like 20% to 80%.

I enjoyed exploring a bit on the way to Yuna, running into some side stuff. Definitely sticking with it for now.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

I liked the way they handled their side characters and the way that those characters' stories unspooled across the course of the game. It gave each character nuance and personality. It made them less like people-collectables you picked up like other icons on the map.

For me, it made the side characters feel more like party members in a JRPG. You're not using them constantly in battle, but you're finding out more about them over time and building sustained relationships. Their stories also intersect with the main plot in interesting ways.

Way to spike my interest and bump Ghosts of Tsushima up the queue.

I just started Act III and I'm finding the story to be excellent. I much prefer the fewer, more-well-developed characters and I'm genuinely interested to see how things turn out. I always felt like the plot/characters in Assassin's Creed are so convoluted that I can't remember who is who and what is going on by the time you get to the last third of the game. Here, I am much more invested in the overall story and it's interesting without being overly complicated.

I also really like how well this game balances the RPG/upgrade elements and avoids the "I have Lvl 70 weapons, but every enemy still takes 39 hits to kill" problem that AC games always seem to have.

I’ve warmed up to the game a lot since the first few hours. One thing I especially like is the gear system, and how you get things. The “mythic” quests are cool, in a way that I think has been lost in the age of loot games. It brings me back to something like FF6, where in the second half of the game you hear a bit of a story of something powerful, then go on a little adventure for it.

I also really like Ryuzo and his story with Jin, the longbow, and obviously how jaw dropping some of the areas are visually. One of the areas near a haiku spot, I just swung the camera around and gawked. I haven’t done that since like, Vanquish on 360?

There are a couple sore spots. The number of supplies you need for upgrades quickly becomes a bottleneck to upgrades, which almost drives me to want to farm for supplies. Having a stance for each enemy type is nice in theory but when you’re surrounded by a few of each, it feels like they should have made a “focus” perk or something to increase how much time slows down when you’re switching stances.

Blind_Evil wrote:

The number of supplies you need for upgrades quickly becomes a bottleneck to upgrades, which almost drives me to want to farm for supplies.

There is a charm that will increase the amount of resources you get. But, you might also be trying too hard to upgrade too fast... many higher tier upgrades are locked behind certain rare/limited materials you can only find once in certain places, anyway. I used the charm regularly, and by 2/3rds of the way through the game, I found myself with nothing left to upgrade.

Thinking back on Ghosts of Tsushima, one of the things it does well that I have realized is one of my favorite things in games is making yourself feel like a complete badass for the entire experience. You start off as a samurai and you are able to cut enemies down left and right. I really love how even from the beginning you can get moments where you have a perfect parry and are able to one-hit kill enemies, etc. Unlocking new skills and abilities doesn't necessarily make it significantly easier to defeat enemies but it does let you feel even cooler as you do it. More tools, more options, more badassery. It makes the game engaging and exciting from start to finish.

I'm also in the camp of having really loved the side missions and secondary characters and how their stories played out over the course of the campaign. Getting a little bit of their story consistently over the entire experience helped me feel more connected to them. Sure, the timing of things doesn't make sense when you try and consider it as a whole (exactly how long was Ishikawa-san waiting around for me at times?) but the individual moments are so good and I loved the overall story arc for each.

And...finished! What an absolutely superb game! I really enjoyed the pacing, character development, and the sheer beauty of the world. Weirdly, it became "must-see TV" for my wife, who ordered me to play it most evenings so that she could watch and comment. Being Japanese, she had some fascinating commentary regarding character motivations, the differences between the spoken Japanese and the English subtitles, and her own takes on the people and culture. It just wouldn't have been the same experience without her invariably apologizing to the wildlife when I killed something for predator hides ("Gomen, kumo-san!"), gleefully pointing out Fox Dens ("Kitsune-san asoko desu!"), complaining about birds going up rock-faces ("Doko iku no, tori-san?") or squealing when she thought I missed supplies.

Probably my GOTY.

I finally got this the other day, but I also finally got Miles Morales last week, and it seems I can't handle the gear shift of doing both at once, but I am excited to get into this.

SpacePProtean wrote:

I finally got this the other day, but I also finally got Miles Morales last week, and it seems I can't handle the gear shift of doing both at once, but I am excited to get into this.

My advice is to carve out time just for this game, rather than trying to play both at once. There's a certain mastery of controls that allows combat to flow really nicely, but I found that more than a few days off from playing really messed with my timing.

Also, take your time and smell the roses. After the tutorial section, it really opens up. My technique was to do a few main missions to work on getting some technique options opened up, and then I did every side-mission before moving the main storyline along. But seriously, spend some time lingering. A fundamental part of the game is the concept of mono no aware (and indeed is the final achievement's name), and the game really shines in those moments.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...

Was/is Japan as beautiful as it’s depicted in the game? I... just wanna live there.

Blind_Evil wrote:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...

Was/is Japan as beautiful as it’s depicted in the game? I... just wanna live there.

Parts of it, especially in the countryside, are absolutely gorgeous. You can't see the wind and their aren't vast fields of flowers in the more northern areas I was at. Here's a view of my wife's village.

IMAGE(https://gaijinpot.scdn3.secure.raxcdn.com/app/uploads/sites/6/2017/11/Yamadera-Temple-View-1024x679.jpg)

Blind_Evil wrote:

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but...

Was/is Japan as beautiful as it’s depicted in the game? I... just wanna live there.

I lived in the Kanagawa region, which is densely populated on a scale that dwarfs anywhere in the USA. Even in that tightly-packed urban area, there were regions of absolutely stunning beauty, especially when the plum and cherry trees are in bloom. I was fortunate enough to travel fairly widely while I lived there, ranging from Sapporo in the north to Sasebo in the South, with many spots in between. I absolutely love the seemingly endless, green mountain ranges, and especially the areas where the mountains meet the sea. Truly beautiful!

Finished up tonight. I loved the game overall, but the ending didn’t hit particularly well. I went with the

Spoiler:

kill option for Shimura, but the game didn’t do a great job of showing me a great relationship ruined by the samurai code. He was mostly a bastard throughout what happened on screen during the game. It didn’t feel like a big loss, outside of wondering who would be appointed in his place.

Best storyline in the game for me was probably Norio or Yuna.

Blind_Evil wrote:

Finished up tonight. I loved the game overall, but the ending didn’t hit particularly well. I went with the

Spoiler:

kill option for Shimura, but the game didn’t do a great job of showing me a great relationship ruined by the samurai code. He was mostly a bastard throughout what happened on screen during the game. It didn’t feel like a big loss, outside of wondering who would be appointed in his place.

I did the same but it worked really well for me and felt like a fitting ending.

Spoiler:

I never felt like they had that good of a relationship. I felt their relationship was the samurai code and given that the ending felt spot on. His uncle was largely a bastard because of the samurai code and the story was Jin struggling with his realization that some things were more important than the code. But he understood his uncle and knew that the samurai code was important above all to him, so not killing him would've been the ultimate betrayal. It wasn't as much about the loss of his uncle as it was Jin both giving his uncle proper closure as a samurai and Jin giving closure to his own samurai ways. Two samurais were put to rest with a single action.

I can fully understand critiques of the story and the game's story pacing but it worked for me.

Pretty cool short article on IGN how GoT fans helped fund the restoration of a Tsushima Torii gate that was damaged by a typhoon last year:

Ghost of Tsushima fans give back to the Island of Tsushima

The made far more than enough, but I wish I had known about it a little sooner...

That's how I looked at the ending too, Dreaded Gazebo.

I really liked all of your character's sidestories. Grumpy sensei's dower face and murder grandma's rage tears were fantastic. Someone I follow on twitter was thrilled that the game featured two older Asian women as important side characters and I thought that was a nice touch.

My wife's take on the characters was really interesting. She completely understood the motivations behind the actions of Jin's uncle in the context of him following the samurai code, and didn't fault him for doing so. In the closing scenes, we had a long discussion about his motivations and actions in that respect.

Spoiler:

She felt that the Death option was the only choice that really honoured his life and choices, and so she chose this as what we did. While playing, I took care of the navigating and fighting, while she made dialogue choices and yelled at me for missing supplies.

She disliked Ishikawa-sensei's storyline because she didn't really like archery and felt like his motivations were selfish. She was both amused and horrified by Masako-san's storyline, mostly by how bloody-thirsty she was, but completely understood the motivation.

She didn't really care about the Norio storyline too much for reasons that are unclear to me, but really, really enjoyed the Yuna storyline. Partially because that's close to her own name, and because she has a brother of her own.

Spoiler:

She was terrified that Yuna's brother was going to get killed, and didn't take it well when that happened. She insisted that Jin at least wear the mask the brother made for him for the rest of the game to honour him.

Overall, I really enjoyed the side-stories and thought that they brought a lot to the game. I'm really looking forward to the sequel.

What did your wife think of Yuriko's story? It was short but, I felt, quite impactful.

Ishikawa's storyline is definitely about how selfish he was and his attempts to clean it up were very clear about that.