Help me build my PC 2020 Catch All

Stele wrote:

No drive bay?

I mean I know there's not much physical media anymore but I think I'd at least want a Blu Ray dvd combo drive just in case. Heck I still might want to watch a movie on my PC when other family is hogging the TV.

You would struggle to find a case introduced in the last half-decade plus that has any 5.25" bays, and watching Blu-Rays on PC is a pain in the ass.

Been exactly 6 years since my last build and it has 2 bays and I still have a writer in there.

I haven't looked in a while but assumed Blu Ray writeable discs kept coming down in price

WizKid wrote:

Malor: Double check the manual on the power button, I had one case where a quick press would just do a reset and a short hold would do the full shutoff.

There's no physical Reset connector to hook up to the motherboard. It has exactly two lines from the regular control block: power, and power LED. That's it! (edit: plus audio and a bunch of USB connectors.)

Stele wrote:

No drive bay?

I mean I know there's not much physical media anymore but I think I'd at least want a Blu Ray dvd combo drive just in case. Heck I still might want to watch a movie on my PC when other family is hogging the TV.

I haven't used a 5.25" device in many years, and I'm not presently using anything but an M.2 on my main desktop. All the rest of the storage is on the network. I might add another SSD or two, and I could potentially add a 3.5" local-bulk-data disk, but that's probably as far as it would go. The 600 would handle that with aplomb.

Just, you know, don't try to use it as a server case. It would be a miserable fit.

Apparently a 5 sec hold on the power button will trigger the reset?

Unless the motherboard has logic to do that, it can't, because there's no physical connection to the reset switch.

On earlier motherboards, a multi-second hold of the power button forces a hard shutoff, usually at about ten seconds. It's certainly possible that this new generation of motherboards might do something different, but it does still have a reset connector, and an actual physical reset button on the motherboard. It's definitely differentiating between reset and power, and ASUS thought it was important enough to spend the money to put two hard switches in. (second edit: of course, you could argue that this is for old fogies like me, a marketing exercise, not a technical one.)

Maybe I'll find a setting to overload the function of the power switch by prospecting in the modern BIOS once I get the board running, but I'm not sanguine.

I've been thinking about ways to rig up a reset button, and I haven't been able to come up with anything good. Hooking up a momentary switch on a case that deliberately has a smooth aluminum front with no holes does not appear to be a simple problem.

edit: maybe I could run a couple wires through the mesh on top, maybe mount a button there somewhere. I'll have to think about that.

You could easy drill a hole into the case somewhere and install something like this. All you would need is the cable, and you could easily strip that off an old case or hell even buy one. There are plenty of options out there.

https://www.amazon.ca/Ulincos-Moment...

Malor wrote:

edit: maybe I could run a couple wires through the mesh on top, maybe mount a button there somewhere. I'll have to think about that.

If you have an old case, just harvest a button from one. And not like the entire thing, I'm sure you're aware there's usually a very tiny little button in there and whatever you see on the actual case is generally just a cover.

I have one in my rando PC parts box so I can test motherboards without hooking them up to a case or resorting to shorting those two pins with a screwdriver, on the off chance I buy or am building with a board that doesn't have an onboard power button. The one I took out is just a very, very small button, think maybe 15mm in length, half that square at the base, and the two wires to the usual connector for the mobo front panel connections.

I think it actually came from an old cooler master case, now that I think about it. It's small enough it could be run/mounted to any number of places.

I got my ASUS TUF 3070 yesterday, woohoo! Just saying.

It's kinda anticlimactic though, I wanted it for so long and I am not really THAT blown away by the visual difference against my old 1070. I don't have any RTX games atm and Valhalla looks nicer now but the difference is not that drastic.

It's faster, I guess.

Hedinn wrote:

I got my ASUS TUF 3070 yesterday, woohoo! Just saying.

It's kinda anticlimactic though, I wanted it for so long and I am not really THAT blown away by the visual difference against my old 1070. I don't have any RTX games atm and Valhalla looks nicer now but the difference is not that drastic.

It's faster, I guess. :)

It's like double the performance of a 1070. Crank some settings up or something!

If you own Minecraft, I think you can download the RTX version with some custom worlds to show off the lighting. I believe NVidia hosts it.

I haven't actually run it, not having an RTX card yet, so I'm unclear on the details. The videos are impressive as hell, though.

edit: another option would be running The Witcher 3 with the settings and resolution cranked way up.

Thin_J wrote:

I think it actually came from an old cooler master case, now that I think about it. It's small enough it could be run/mounted to any number of places.

Having a case with a solid aluminum front has the upside of looking nice, but has the downside of being hard to drill through, particularly cleanly. I'm kind of eyeballing the mesh on top-center and thinking about drilling a hole and mounting a screw-in button up there, but .... eh, that worries me. Plus, it would wreck my ability to put things on top of the case. (the actual top exhaust is very small if you have the plate on; it exhausts to the sides, so if, say, I put a laptop there I'm working on, I won't really block the cooling.)

Maybe I'll just do without; if I *really* need a reset, I can take the glass panel off and press the motherboard button.

Can’t remember the last case I had that even had a reset button. Also can’t remember needing to do a reset in a long time. Thankfully hard lockup’s are largely a thing of the past with Windows 10

Hedinn wrote:

I got my ASUS TUF 3070 yesterday, woohoo! Just saying.

It's kinda anticlimactic though, I wanted it for so long and I am not really THAT blown away by the visual difference against my old 1070. I don't have any RTX games atm and Valhalla looks nicer now but the difference is not that drastic.

It's faster, I guess. :)

Metro Exodus is $15.99 on Humble right now.

My current case doesn't have a reset button and I couldn't care less, on the extremely rare occasions I've ever had a lockup I just held the power button down for 5 seconds or so. Actually I'm pretty sure I did that even on cases that had a reset button because I forgot it was there; just one more front panel connection to make, which is one of the most irritating parts of any build.

Ooh Rocket League.

TheGameguru wrote:

Can’t remember the last case I had that even had a reset button. Also can’t remember needing to do a reset in a long time. Thankfully hard lockup’s are largely a thing of the past with Windows 10

I was using mine just the other day when testing whether I'd properly created a Windows 10 install key. It doesn't want to just exit after booting up without asking you a whole bunch of questions first, and hitting reset saved me a fair bit of time over holding the power button down for ten seconds.

edit: it's probably also a little easier on the electronics, though whether that would actually matter, long-term, I have no idea.

Ooh, I wonder if you can do anything cool with the fancy triggers in a custom configuration...

The CPU seems to be running a little hotter than I'd like (80C), but this is what CPU-Z says about this system:

https://valid.x86.fr/gmbw78

I was particularly pleased to see the RAM at 1T command rate. That's very unusual.

And note that this is with pretty much no tuning on my part.... I set to it DOCP mode, the RAM to 3600, and the FSB to 1800. I haven't touched anything else. Haven't had time... the fresh Windows install means I have eighteen million things to download.

Malor wrote:

The CPU seems to be running a little hotter than I'd like (80C), but this is what CPU-Z says about this system:

https://valid.x86.fr/gmbw78

80 to 90C is normal boosting behavior. Under sustained load it'll boost until it either gets up there or reaches its max power draw. While most run it with normal PBO2 on, some folks run it in eco mode for lower temps. This sacrifices some performance for cooler temperatures. Enthusiasts are undervolting while overclocking (locking all cores to a frequency) to get better temps along with good performance.

Malor wrote:

The CPU seems to be running a little hotter than I'd like (80C), but this is what CPU-Z says about this system:

https://valid.x86.fr/gmbw78

I was particularly pleased to see the RAM at 1T command rate. That's very unusual.

And note that this is with pretty much no tuning on my part.... I set to it DOCP mode, the RAM to 3600, and the FSB to 1800. I haven't touched anything else. Haven't had time... the fresh Windows install means I have eighteen million things to download.

What cooler are you using for that chip?

Gaald wrote:

What cooler are you using for that chip?

Obviously a sissy air cooler where a stud AIO is clearly called for instead.

I found a razer laptop on eBay for around 1100 dollars with an I7 8750h 2TB SSD 2070max q 32 GB ram and 4K touch screen... it seems like a good deal, but with the new GPUs coming out I don’t know what a good deal is anymore. Any thoughts?

I'm using a Noctua NH-C14S cooler, which is similar to the DH-15 tower, but normally runs about 3C hotter. In exchange, you get extra airflow over the VRMs and motherboard heatsinks, which seems important with the modern chipsets.

So I've been experimenting some, and when running heavy-duty CPU tests, this processor goes right to 90C and stays there. Doesn't twitch. But I get really good results out of it, so while I'm thermally throttled, it's not like on Intel where performance falls off a cliff. My Cinebench R20 score was 49-something, which for an 8-core processor appears to be outstanding.

So then I set it back to Eco mode in the BIOS (took awhile to find the setting, it's in the "AMD Overclocking" area, buried way deep in the menus, instead of the main tweak area), and in that mode, I get 5555 in Cinebench, and the temp peaks at 68C. With the Intel Burn Test, it's 74C in Eco mode.

This chip is already so much faster than what I had that I think I'll just leave it there for now.

edit to add: also, in Cinebench, I see that all eight cores clock at 4198MHz, with occasional wiggles to 4175. And that's in Eco mode!

Also, I've owned two razer laptops and both have broken in some way or another. I'm skeptical about buying another, but i haven't come across any that i like as much as these. The keyboards feel great, i like the slimness and are good laptops even without considering the gaming factor. The fact that they keep breaking on me though really makes me want to avoid them in the future.

Anyone have suggestions for another one that might satisfy these needs and have a bit more reliability?

Thanks!

Malor wrote:

I'm using a Noctua NH-C14S cooler, which is similar to the DH-15 tower, but normally runs about 3C hotter. In exchange, you get extra airflow over the VRMs and motherboard heatsinks, which seems important with the modern chipsets.

So I've been experimenting some, and when running heavy-duty CPU tests, this processor goes right to 90C and stays there. Doesn't twitch. But I get really good results out of it, so while I'm thermally throttled, it's not like on Intel where performance falls off a cliff. My Cinebench R20 score was 49-something, which for an 8-core processor appears to be outstanding.

So then I set it back to Eco mode in the BIOS (took awhile to find the setting, it's in the "AMD Overclocking" area, buried way deep in the menus, instead of the main tweak area), and in that mode, I get 5555 in Cinebench, and the temp peaks at 68C. With the Intel Burn Test, it's 74C in Eco mode.

This chip is already so much faster than what I had that I think I'll just leave it there for now.

edit to add: also, in Cinebench, I see that all eight cores clock at 4198MHz, with occasional wiggles to 4175. And that's in Eco mode!

It's really cool how easy AMD and most motherboard manufacturers have made it to get the most performance possible while targeting a specific temperature (default) or other variable. Between Ryzen Master (AMD's utility) and ASUS' AI suite it's been simple for me to to target noise normalized results, which is our primary concern since my desk is in the bedroom.

This isn't trying to diagnose or improve anything, but I'm curious: Given the case you've got and Gamers Nexus' interesting cooling results in it, did you mount the GPU vertically as close to the motherboard as possible? That appears to be the optimal position according to their testing.

Oh... and an FYI for anyone looking (you probably saw the video, Malor): GNex also tested with the case sitting on its front (haha!) to see if "front to back" airflow made a difference. They got temps within run variance of it sitting normally.

FiveIron wrote:

Anyone have suggestions for another one that might satisfy these needs and have a bit more reliability?

I really like Alienware. They have been my "goto" solution for gaming while travelling since they first came out. I'm on my 3rd one right now. Only upgraded for performance reasons. My first one is still going strong - I still use it (and the 2nd one) as guest loaners when desired.

They only have 2 problems, IMHO - pricier than equivalently specc'd laptops, and heavy.

I bought a Legion for my wife earlier this year. While she's not a gamer, she does travel with her laptop and is exceptionally hard on hardware. It's held up well so far, but has only been 6 months or so.

The CPU on that razer seems a little mediocre mostly because it is not current gen. The 2070 Max Q is not a 2070. Benchmarks show it comparable to a 1660 ti which is no slouch but not going to drive that 4K monitor in 3D games.

Everything else looks great: 2TB SSD, 4K touch screen and 32 GB of RAM. You may also want to check battery life because with those components I am sure it will not be great even with a gigantic battery...

Also, is it 15in or 17in or 13in? How much does it weigh if that is a factor for you?

I'd say that you are approaching a bargain with a laptop that has those specs without the 2070 max q and is priced at $1100. So the gpu is a nice bonus. (the only downside really being the dated but capable cpu)

Has there been leaks on when the 3000 and 6000 series are coming to laptops? I havent seen anything personally.

TheGameguru wrote:

Has there been leaks on when the 3000 and 6000 series are coming to laptops? I havent seen anything personally.

Only stuff I've seen is on wccftech and quotes CES 2021 as the announcement date.

LouZiffer wrote:

This isn't trying to diagnose or improve anything, but I'm curious: Given the case you've got and Gamers Nexus' interesting cooling results in it, did you mount the GPU vertically as close to the motherboard as possible? That appears to be the optimal position according to their testing.

Oh... and an FYI for anyone looking (you probably saw the video, Malor): GNex also tested with the case sitting on its front (haha!) to see if "front to back" airflow made a difference. They got temps within run variance of it sitting normally.

No, I just have a 970 for the moment, so I mounted it the regular way. If I can ever find a 3070, I might buy a PCIe riser cable and go vertical.

Front to back versus top to bottom is probably not as important as having two entire sides devoted to airflow. You can't do that in a front-to-back case because of the PCIe slots and the motherboard I/O plate. You've only got that little window over the plate for a back exhaust.

So if you want to do two full sides, then it has to be left and right or top and bottom. Given those choices, bottom to top seems like the best approach. Might as well let the hot air help things along, since you get that energy "for free" anyway. (more accurately: you already paid for it, so you might as well use it twice.) But, yeah, turning it on a side probably wouldn't make that much difference, because the heat-rising flow is small compared to the push from four or five fans.

It seems to work very well, and be very quiet, but I haven't been able to test it properly yet. There's a kinda noisy server case sitting right next to it, because it's going to get my 4790K in the next couple days, so the noise from the desktop isn't apparent over the server fans. I think it's very, very quiet, but I won't know for sure until either tomorrow or Friday.

I do have another criticism of the SL600M: there's no hard power-off on the back! I consider this to be an unforgivable mistake. I'm not going to return it because of the sheer pain involved, but I would reject the case on this basis alone, and would not recommend a purchase to others. Being only able to do a hard power off by yanking out the cord is stupid. Well, you can open the case and fumble your way to the buried power supply switch, but ye gods, that's ridiculous. Add the lack of reset switch, and it's pretty obvious that the designer of this case is not really a computer person.

If you buy the case anyway, the power supply area is a little painful. A modular supply will work better. Get one with a really long secondary CPU connector (or buy an extension cord). There's a bracket to hold the PSU in place, and then a shroud that surrounds it and gives unused cables a garage. On my Corsair 850 non-modular, I was just barely able to stuff all the cables in there, but the secondary CPU connector was too short to route way down through that window, and then way up to the top of the board. So I had to pull the shroud off, meaning all the unused cables are in a big snarl in the bottom of the case. Sigh. I'll have to grab an 8-pin extender so I can remount that shroud, because I do rather like it.

If they had mounted the power supply the other way, facing up, the cables would have fit a lot better, but then the power supply fan might have been working against the bottom-to-top airflow. It's a shame they didn't engineer the bracket so that you could mount it in either direction, for fanless PSUs and the like.

If it weren't for the power and reset buttons, I'd like it fine. Oh, and there's another problematic bit: it uses lots of nonstandard screws. They're the normal diameter and threading, but tend to be oddly long or short in certain places, so you have to be very careful not to lose any. The drive screws, for instance, are extra long with a thick base to push through the rubber mounting grommets, and the four screws that mount the sideplate over the power supply are extremely short.

And, not a case issue, but dear god, be careful with the screws on the ASUS M.2 heatsinks. The ones on the Crosshair 8 Hero are truly tiny, and weirdly long. I've never seen screws like them; they're designed to reach through the heatsink and bite into the center of those tiny M.2 washer mounts. I thought I dropped one and just could not find it anywhere, thought it was lost forever, and was trying to figure out a fallback. Turns out it just hadn't stuck to the screwdriver and was still in the hole. The relief I felt was palpable; those screws are critical, easy to lose, and I have no idea where you'd buy a replacement.

Other than the lack of switches, I'm very happy with this build ATM. Hopefully I can figure out a way to improve the cooling so that normal turbo mode is under 90C. I much, much prefer the 74C of Eco mode.