Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice Catch-All

Carlbear95 wrote:

I'm still plugging away at it. Of course it took me 25+ hours to suddenly have it dawn on me... "THAT'S why I should BUY those coin purses" as I watch my multi thousand sen fortune disappear as I lose to the boss for the 20th time.

There is a good route by the Estate Path Idol at Hirata Estate for early game mibu balloon running/grinding. And I think some of the mobs will drop balloons while you're at it so you can grind for ages in that spot (they might only drop balloons if you have the demon bell activated).

Best plan is to work around the area killing all the mobs, leaving the gold behind. Then once everywhere is clear pop the balloon and run back over the bodies hoovering up the money and items. And repeat...

Carlbear95 wrote:

I think I'm behind the power curve as far as prosthetic upgrades go. I admit I dont' use them nearly as much as I should as my timing with pulling the RT seems different vs. the right bumper and that extra split second of "give" on the trigger seems to be my undoing. (probably all psychological but hey we need excuses for failure don't we?)

It is definitely worth getting to know these better. I did most of my 1st run without really exploring them and I know now that it made the game way harder than it needed to be. I think once you're into Ashina castle then you can pick up all but 2 of them.

Most of the prosthetics are somewhat situational and somewhat useful for particular enemies, with the exception of the Umbrella which broadly useful for nearly all combat situations. The timing is very different from your katana and each prosthetic has it's own timing to deal with. The prosthetics generally have some additional exposed wind-up frames that your normal strike does not have. So you do have to look for the right opening the Loaded Axe being the most obviously lagged, though the sabimaru and shuriken can snap fired.

I think I have all but one of the prosthetics.. I got the whistle yesterday not knowing I had the part for it for a while. After defeating the respective boss I went to an online guide and then the "wait.. what?" moment happened.

I do love the umbrella, that's saved my skin a number of times. I know most of the Ghost bosses are optional but I haven't gotten one of those down yet, so upgrading the umbrella is something I'm aiming for. That's kind of what I'm trying to focus on between confetti and gold.

Carlbear95 wrote:

. I know most of the Ghost bosses are optional but I haven't gotten one of those down yet, so upgrading the umbrella is something I'm aiming for. That's kind of what I'm trying to focus on between confetti and gold.

Yeah once you have the relevant umbrella upgrade those minibosses are pretty easy. I've seen that you can do it with just the confetti but I was happy to semi-"cheap" my way through my first play through

So, three days ago I steamrolled through 2 generals, the armoured warrior and madame butterfly on my charmless NG+ run. Feeling I was on a roll I headed up to the top of Ashina castle to take out Genichiro. But as it's been months (a year?) I watched a quick guide vid to refresh my memory of the fight. Seemed tricky but yaknow. First attempt I had him right down to couple of blows, I was convinced it was going to be another triumph. Instead it took 3 days of on and off practice.

But I just took him down in an incredibly satisfying flurry of deflections.

This game can really get into your head. On one run I can beat 5 "harder" regular enemies (like the robed dudes in the castle) no problem. The next time the first one just completely destroys me. This game really has such a low margin of error that if you're not on your game for every single fight, it can go south very quickly.

I'm now heading "back" to Ashina castle.. and man its exhausting (in a good way). One lapse and that's the end of that run. Even the next idol is blocked by a boss!

Carlbear95 wrote:

This game can really get into your head. On one run I can beat 5 "harder" regular enemies (like the robed dudes in the castle) no problem. The next time the first one just completely destroys me. This game really has such a low margin of error that if you're not on your game for every single fight, it can go south very quickly.

I'm now heading "back" to Ashina castle.. and man its exhausting (in a good way). One lapse and that's the end of that run. Even the next idol is blocked by a boss!

Yeah it reminds me of rainbow six siege. If you are on point and practiced. You're basically a death god. If you slack of or take a break from it, even for a short while, you just get destroyed. Both are fun though.

I've made it to the final boss... I can get past phase 1 relatively easy enough.. but phase 2 is kicking the crap out of me, and I've heard it only gets harder for phases 3 and 4.

Debating if I should call it a day here. Even watching videos and reading on strats, executing it is a different story.

Carlbear95 wrote:

I've made it to the final boss... I can get past phase 1 relatively easy enough.. but phase 2 is kicking the crap out of me, and I've heard it only gets harder for phases 3 and 4.

Debating if I should call it a day here. Even watching videos and reading on strats, executing it is a different story.

First of all, congrats on getting there!

I feel your pain - or rather felt it - last year. I've likely said this in this thread a few times, but taking practice runs of no more than a handful of attempts without expecting to win is usually the best way to go about any boss in this game. Let's you keep your cool by tempering expectations, and before you know it, you end up winning.

Spoiler:

I take it you're on Isshin the Sword Saint, yes? The umbrella was my friend, and it might be yours, too... especially with the purple enhancesment (forget what it's actually called).

Carlbear95 wrote:

I've made it to the final boss... I can get past phase 1 relatively easy enough.. but phase 2 is kicking the crap out of me, and I've heard it only gets harder for phases 3 and 4.

Debating if I should call it a day here. Even watching videos and reading on strats, executing it is a different story.

This was me, honestly. There came a point where I recognized that the abject frustration caused by the mistakes I was making during fights (misreading cues, mistiming blocks, pressing the wrong button in a panic, etc) wasn't worth the payoff. I thought Sekiro was a neat game that ended up being more difficult than I was prepared to deal with.

There IS a method by which you can infinitesimally grind additional power for the Wolf, but it's on such a scale of diminishing returns that it felt like punishment. Without a more accessible method of outleveling content, I was left to get better or stop trying, and I chose the latter.

Carlbear95 wrote:

I've made it to the final boss... I can get past phase 1 relatively easy enough.. but phase 2 is kicking the crap out of me, and I've heard it only gets harder for phases 3 and 4.

Phase 3 is the hardest by far. 4 is basically the same, except easier.

Spoiler:

At least if you've got your lightning counter down

I loved Phase 2. Once I got the rhythm and tells, I could be super aggressive.

This fight is hard to learn because you have to get good enough at the first two stages to get in a position to learn the last stages.

Concentrate on learning the rhythm you need to block the combos. Concentrate on fishing out opportunities for using the mikiri counter. Most of all, always look to block and parry and counter attack. Don't try to dash dodge. Dash dodging gets you killed in this game except against some specific moves. Aggression is always better even if it gets you killed, because you can come back and block correctly next time.

Spoiler:

Also, when you get near the end of the fight, consider rice.

Edit: There is, as always, also a cheese strat. But it sounded more boring than learning the fight.

Yeah I definitely will not just beat my head against the wall for hours. Basically if I feel myself getting "lazy" on phase 1 I just take a break because it just adds to the frustration.

Haven't tried for the last 3 or 4 days... but I'll probably get back into it soon. The "slowness" of the phase 2 attacks really seems to throw off all of the learning I've done on every single fight up to then. Even if I've seen it 5 times and died.. I just can't train my brain to slow down the parries on the 6th try.

And DONE!

I don't believe it! I've played a lot of games, and even though it took *checks Steam* 78 hours (my aborted playthrough was about 15 hours so I guess it was 63 hours to finish) its done. Wow what a great game and what a satisfying experience. I'm usually not one to play things a second time but I may clean up the headless and ghost bosses and maybe consider a new game.

Carlbear95 wrote:

maybe consider a new game.

You will be simply amazed at how you cruise through the first 50% of the game on NG+. The headless and schichimen warrior bosses are pretty easy tbh, especially if you can beat out the final boss, they're just a bit fiddly as you need to do some additional resource management

Resurrecting this thread... and I'm sure someone has already made the point I'm about to make... but I just got past the first fight with Genichiro, all the way at the top of Ashina castle, and the game has just started clicking.

Although the combat was super unintuitive coming from Dark Souls and Bloodbourne, I am starting to "get" it in that its less about managing stamina as it is about continually attacking and keeping your opponent's guard up, while simultaneously reacting with the correct flavor of blocking, parrying, jumping, or evading. It is such an intuitive system that makes you feel like you following the beats of a real sword fight, and when you are in the zone it feels incredibly visceral and engrossing in a way that I am starting to obsess over.

So yeah honestly I hated the combat when I started, but at this point I think I might prefer it to everything else From Software has done. I'm going to be sad once this game is over.

jamos5 wrote:

Although the combat was super unintuitive coming from Dark Souls and Bloodbourne, I am starting to "get" it in that its less about managing stamina as it is about continually attacking and keeping your opponent's guard up, while simultaneously reacting with the correct flavor of blocking, parrying, jumping, or evading. It is such an intuitive system that makes you feel like you following the beats of a real sword fight, and when you are in the zone it feels incredibly visceral and engrossing in a way that I am starting to obsess over.

I'm totally with you! I recently re-picked this game up and I'm playing through it now. I played it for about 20 hours back when it came out and gave up when I got stuck on a couple bosses. Now I'm back into it and I've beaten Lady Butterfly - I think the neighbors heard my cries of triumph - and passed other parts that had me stuck before as well. Things are clicking, though I'm still short on the deflecting a bit. It's almost there. It seems like you really have to "unlearn" what Dark Souls teaches you and then I think things can start to click. It took a long time for me to stop holding back on lots of consecutive attacks and double checking my non-existent stamina!

jamos5 wrote:

So yeah honestly I hated the combat when I started, but at this point I think I might prefer it to everything else From Software has done. I'm going to be sad once this game is over.

"Sekiro is a rhythm game." was both the best description and best advice I got for playing this game.

r013nt0 wrote:
jamos5 wrote:

So yeah honestly I hated the combat when I started, but at this point I think I might prefer it to everything else From Software has done. I'm going to be sad once this game is over.

"Sekiro is a rhythm game." was both the best description and best advice I got for playing this game.

Which is probably why I failed so miserably at it. I have no rhythm!

I had a hard time with the combat in Sekiro being so different from the Souls games when I first played it in part because I had just finished another re-play of Bloodborne. I tried Sekiro again recently after playing Ghost of Tsushima and found the combat much easier to understand. It helped that Ghost of Tsushima had a similar but far more forgiving take on the same mechanics.

Yeah, Ghost of Tsushima has been at the right spot on the difficulty curve for me, whereas Sekiro was just too demanding of precision and reflexes. That said, I'll probably give it another shot later this year, but I still fear I'm going to get stuck early on just like last time.

Has anyone tried this on PS5? (the prerequisite being owning a PS5 which I know not many do.) I was thinking it might be easier at 60 frames per second so I’d be better waiting to play it on PS5 but then I guess there is a chance it’ll just be faster (which is the opposite of what I need) or the timing will be harder. I want to give the game a go even if I don’t get very far because sword fights with human scale enemies in Souls likes (Lady Maria from Bloodborne basically) are my thing.

Higgledy wrote:

Has anyone tried this on PS5? (the prerequisite being owning a PS5 which I know not many do.) I was thinking it might be easier at 60 frames per second so I’d be better waiting to play it on PS5 but then I guess there is a chance it’ll just be faster (which is the opposite of what I need) or the timing will be harder. I want to give the game a go even if I don’t get very far because sword fights with human scale enemies in Souls likes (Lady Maria from Bloodborne basically) are my thing.

Same question could be answered by XSX owners, unless you only want the answer for PS5, which I could understand.

Performance mode on X1X is 60fps. It does not make the game easier.

Higgledy wrote:

Has anyone tried this on PS5? (the prerequisite being owning a PS5 which I know not many do.) I was thinking it might be easier at 60 frames per second so I’d be better waiting to play it on PS5 but then I guess there is a chance it’ll just be faster (which is the opposite of what I need) or the timing will be harder. I want to give the game a go even if I don’t get very far because sword fights with human scale enemies in Souls likes (Lady Maria from Bloodborne basically) are my thing.

I don't have a new console to test it on yet, but having played Dark Souls 3 on both PS4 and PC, I can promise you that 60 FPS will only make timing easier. It's not faster, just smoother.

Edit: Maybe easier isn't quite accurate, but it is more consistent, which makes parrying feel more reliable. Sekiro on PS4 Pro ran at a variable framerate that typically hovered between 40 and 45 FPS, but could swing up to 60 or down near 30 at times. Digital Foundry reported that Sekiro ran at or very near 60 FPS consistently on both PS5 and XSX. The consistent 60 FPS will be a better experience.

Thanks all. I had the feeling that consistency in timing would help a little as the combat is so deflect reliant but it probably won’t be enough to bridge the gap between my reflexes and what’s being asked of me. I’ll wait to play it on PS5. As I say if I only get a few fun sword fight based boss fights out of it I’ll be happy. I didn’t want to wait and then realise I should have played it on PS4.

Carlbear95 wrote:

I've made it to the final boss... I can get past phase 1 relatively easy enough.. but phase 2 is kicking the crap out of me, and I've heard it only gets harder for phases 3 and 4.

Now it's my turn.

Spoiler:

Genichiro is a chump. I've no-hit him a couple of times. I consider it a bad attempt if I need more than one sip from the healing gourd.

Isshin the Sword Saint is coming along. He sure follows my lead for a long time when I hug him, but I often get hurt when he finally breaks out.

Isshin the Sword-and-Spear-and-Also-I-Have-a-Semiautomatic-Pistol-For-Some-Reason Saint is a bastard.

Re: Final Boss

Spoiler:

Genichiro is a major pushover, so much so that I would deliberately fail out of the fight if I took any damage from him.

Most players glom on to the Mikiri Counter early, but I never figured it out to get it consistently early game and thus barely ever used it. When I did, for most of the game, it was by accident. Ultimately, Owl 2 forced me to learn it, and it makes a huge difference on the spear phases of Sword Saint. So, I say that just in case you hadn't thought of it yet.

Also, I would use fireworks a lot to stun him just to get some room to back off and heal, so if you're not using those, try that as well.

I will spare you the number of attempts it took me to get him, because holy crap.

Spoiler:

I am impressed that you made it that far without Mikiri Counter. My problem is that I sometimes mash the button too early so Sekiro-San tries to dodge instead. It’s that hunger when I think I see a Mikiri Counter opportunity.

Fireworks seemed risky but I’m having some success with the delayed fireworks. I can start those at a safe distance while he’s flying at me.

Made it to the next phase a few times now. Stayed up late with it last night, which was foolish. My timing just gets worse and worse when I’m tired.

Spoiler:

Immortality Severed.

I eventually played phase two very cautiously, not even trying to counterattack until he gave me a couple of Mikiri counters and my posture bar was in good shape. I ended up saving those firecrackers for the last phase, and then mostly used them to give myself extra time to punish him after a Mikiri. That, and a few lightning deflections, resulted in a short phase.

In the end, it was the same experience I had throughout the game: once I knew their moves, I felt like I was getting hit only when I made a mistake.

Man the last boss is still the longest attempt for a boss by a large margin for me. I think it took me somewhere around 6 hours...