[Discussion] Election 2020

Seems like the board is set. Let’s see how this goes.

A lot of universities would be way cheaper if they opted out of the slave football league

Djinn wrote:

If the government cancels the, what is it, $1.3 trillion dollars owed to them and all future student loan debt it will have to raise that revenue elsewhere through higher taxes.

Why?

Our national deficit this year is already projected to be 3.3 trillion dollars. This is a one-time thing that's less than half that. The Republicans give massive tax cuts to the rich and spend, spend, spend on the military and starting wars on the other side of the world without a care in the world for where they're going to come up with the money from.

Maybe I'm tired of being the responsible ones here. Maybe it's time to just do the right thing now, and figure out the math for how we're going to pay for it later. Everyone else always seems to.

(and as for an election thing, you know if the Republicans keep any kind of foothold in the Senate they're suddenly going to remember who Grover Norquist is after conveniently forgetting for the past 4 years.)

Keldar wrote:

Maybe I'm tired of being the responsible ones here. Maybe it's time to just do the right thing now, and figure out the math for how we're going to pay for it later. Everyone else always seems to.

It's been my observation that the money will NEVER be found until we start making the welfare of everyday people into a priority. Currently, whenever we need money for big banks, big pharma, military spending, the "wall", etc. the money is always magically found, and yet we can't afford to help regular citizens with healthcare, education, clean water and breathable air, etc.

Djinn wrote:

Even in America, the vast majority of student debt isn't owned by private banks. It's owned by the federal government. If the government cancels the, what is it, $1.3 trillion dollars owed to them and all future student loan debt it will have to raise that revenue elsewhere through higher taxes. Yes, I know you're thinking we can just tax the 1% and that's part of the solution, but they're not an endless source of money that will fund every progressive idea on the agenda. Revenue of that enormity will have to be recouped by taxes on a lot more people than the 1%.

Yes.
Though, if you offer people healthcare, education etc. you can tax the middle class more, while still leaving them off better than they were before.

Djinn wrote:

and all future student loan debt

I dont think anyone is saying all future student loan debt should be forgiven. That would be insane. You should try to remove the need to take student loans. If someone still take them, that is on themselves.
The point of removing past debt is to save people from a broken system that should have been fixed long before it got so out of hand.

It also doesn't exactly have to be all or nothing. You could forgive 50% of the loan, or up to $50k etc.

Yep, this is the thread to talk abou the current election 2020. Debt probably has it's own thread somewhere. Might be good to get back on track or start/find another thread that is debt and loan specific to continue the convo.

*sigh* The state of CA has every legal right to smack down republicans for these unofficial ballot collection boxes and they waffle.

The state of California appears to be backing off legal threats against the California Republican Party over its use of unauthorized ballot drop boxes.

On Monday, California's secretary of state and attorney general sent a cease-and-desist order to the California GOP and several county party offices, ordering they remove unauthorized boxes to collect ballots, some of which were labeled "official."

At a press conference Friday, Attorney General Xavier Becerra and Secretary of State Alex Padilla, both Democrats, didn't announce any additional enforcement action against the party, saying the California GOP agreed to modify how they were collecting ballots.

Guess which candidate said this

As President, I will put forward comprehensive solutions to help empower the transgender and gender non-conforming community and prioritize the prosecution of anti-transgender violence. My administration will enact the Equality Act to end legal discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, expand economic opportunities for LGBTQ+ people, reform our treatment of transgender and gender non-conforming individuals in our criminal justice system, ensure access to accurate identification documents, and improve government data collection to better track violence against the transgender community.
Chairman_Mao wrote:

Guess which candidate said this

As President, I will put forward comprehensive solutions to help empower the transgender and gender non-conforming community and prioritize the prosecution of anti-transgender violence. My administration will enact the Equality Act to end legal discrimination against LGBTQ+ people, expand economic opportunities for LGBTQ+ people, reform our treatment of transgender and gender non-conforming individuals in our criminal justice system, ensure access to accurate identification documents, and improve government data collection to better track violence against the transgender community.

Biden's been dinged for plagiarism before.

A certain other presidential candidate wrote:

As me, as President, I will power engenders. I love LG -- I love their BLTs -- and I will enact an act, the best act, that will end the gender thing completely.

IMAGE(https://i.ibb.co/xftRx0z/202320-EB-991-F-455-C-AADD-CE5-A019-CBC64.jpg)

Djinn wrote:

I do not support eradicating student debt. It's unfair to expect taxpayers -- the majority of whom do not have post-secondary educations -- to fund the living expenses and school debt of those who have higher earning potential than they do. It's unfair to those who have already paid off their debt. It will encourage kids to take loans they don't need while in school because it'll just be eliminated when they graduate.

The idea is to forgive the current loans and then change the system going forward so that future kids do not have to take out loans in the first place. No cost tuition to local and state colleges, with an option to go to a private school on your own dime if you choose. As a taxpayer -who has already paid off student debt- I do not have any problem with my taxes going to pay for this. Hey maybe we could take some money from the Pentagon and use it to actually make life better for people instead of worse?

Djinn wrote:

In Canada, we have friendly repayment terms. If after graduating, your income is too low relative to your debt then the government will pay -- not defer, pay -- the interest on your loan to prevent your debt from accumulating and give you a reasonable monthly payment on your principal. I qualified for this program for a year after graduating and it helped a lot. There's other approaches than straight-out debt forgiveness.

Cool. We don't have this.

Djinn wrote:

The solution is free tuition, income support for low-income students, and financial support for those who don't get the income they expect after graduating. The solution is not a blank cheque.

No, the solution is free tuition period for all but private schools. GDP goes up with an educated workforce. The more educated your citizenry the better for absolutely everyone involved.

Djinn wrote:

It's the idea of total debt forgiveness than I dislike. Sure, the minimum wage worker with a 5-figure debt needs support now, but the professional making good money with their degree should pay back their loan.

Won't somebody think of the poor, innocent, bankers and [other] predatory lenders?

this whole three pages of conversation has sounded a lot like all the arguments for why it's not OK to regulate predatory payday lenders, but with an educational flavor, because those people who have been the victims of decades of predation and manipulation should have somehow known better or not been so vulnerable to manipulation but since they were well... it would just be unfair to everybody else if they didn't get f*cked.

the education loan system in America is fundamentally unfair and predatory, it gives unforgivable (in both senses) loans to a population specifically targeted because they are not to be able to asses what they are receiving or understand the terms of the unbreakable contracts they are entering into.

ELECTION STUFF!!!

Texas nearly eclipsing 2016 totals for early voting in 6 days.

More than 4 million votes have been cast in Texas through the first six full days of early voting, according to the Texas Secretary of State.

The total number of voters so far represent nearly 24% of all registered voters.

The SOS website shows that over 580,000 votes were submitted by mail, with over 3.4 million votes cast in person since early voting started on October 13.

In 2016, there were over 4.4 million votes cast during the early voting period, according to the historical data posted on the Texas SOS website.

Georgia expecting 1.5 million people to vote by end of day today

I have that feeling that post election analysis is going to show that Stacy Abram's voting rights organizations and similar groups coupled with fear/anger and the Cheeto and his goons literally saying they wanted to suppress the vote are going to contribute to 08 levels of voter participation.

thrawn82 wrote:

this whole three pages of conversation has sounded a lot like all the arguments for why it's not OK to regulate predatory payday lenders, but with an educational flavor, because those people who have been the victims of decades of predation and manipulation should have somehow known better or not been so vulnerable to manipulation but since they were well... it would just be unfair to everybody else if they didn't get f*cked.

the education loan system in America is fundamentally unfair and predatory, it gives unforgivable (in both senses) loans to a population specifically targeted because they are not to be able to asses what they are receiving or understand the terms of the unbreakable contracts they are entering into.

Yeah. Feels bad, man.

Michigan Bans Open Carry Of Guns At Polling Locations On Election Day

The title is a bit misleading in my opinion. I don't consider it a ban if someone can just stand 100ft away... That's plenty of room to remain intimidating. I guess it's better than nothing?

Michigan Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson unveiled new restrictions on Friday that curb where people can carry firearms in the state on Election Day.

Her office said guns will be prohibited at polling places, clerk's offices and places where absentee ballots will be tallied. She is ordering individuals openly carrying guns in public not to come within of 100 feet of buildings containing polling places.

Cue the 2nd Amendment crisis and the subsequent court cases.

Nevin73 wrote:

Cue the 2nd Amendment crisis and the subsequent court cases.

You mean "crisis."

I'm no scientist, but I think most guns can shoot over 100 feet.

Kehama wrote:

I'm no scientist, but I think most guns can shoot over 100 feet.

Yes, but can the idiot holster-sniffers firing them be trusted to hit a barn door at that range?

They could probably hit the broad side of a barn, but maybe not the narrow end.

I dunno... they always manage to shoot themselves in the leg, their friends in the head, their neighbors though a wall...

What are the betting odds on Thursday's debate actually happening?

My crystal ball puts it at 70/30 odds (70% no debate vs 30% debate) and here's how it goes down:

Biden has said that in order for him to participate in the debate he wants Trump to have a negative Covid test the day of the debate. Trump is going to refuse to do this (because he's an asshole) and claim that he doesn't need a test since he has already had Covid and recovered.

Biden will cancel. Trump will then spend every moment through election day talking about how Biden is weak, a coward, and refused to show up to the debate because he knew Trump was going to beat him.

Alternatively, but less likely- The debate commission makes a rule about muting microphones. Trump claims conspiracy, and refuses to show up because the debate is rigged in Biden's favor.

I don't know exactly how it'll happen, but Trump will throw a tantrum and the debate will be cancelled. Trump looked terrible in the first debate with Biden and he's even more deranged now than he was then. It wouldn't go well for him.

ClockworkHouse posted this over on the administration thread. I'll admit- I did not consider they would weasel out of this by suggesting that all the topics have already been covered in the first debate...

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Trump trying to tee up canceling the next debate. He's insisting that they only debate foreign policy instead of the announced topics, which are:

  • Fighting COVID-19
  • American Families
  • Race in America
  • Climate Change
  • National Security
  • Leadership

Glad he made it clear that he doesn't want to talk about any of that.

Today was the first day for early election voting here in Escambia County, Florida. Apparently the little library in my small region has seen a solid hour-long line since they opened, even with things moving quickly. I was very impressed with their process and professionalism. Predictably there were a few Boomers running around in outrageous Trump t-shirts, and a pickup drive-by of some ass screaming "Biden sucks!", but overall it was actually a pretty civil and quiet affair in this very red region.

My vote has been cast. Here's hoping for a new direction soon. So say we all.

Voted yesterday. It's easy in Oregon. Just take your mail-in ballot and send it back. I took no chances, though, and dropped it into an official and frequently collected ballot drop-box. That's the earliest I've ever voted. Usually with our system I either complete my ballot at the mail-in deadline or I drop it off on the day of the election. I wasn't going to take any risks this time.

It was the easiest ballot I've ever filled out. Straight D down the entire ticket. That's probably how I'll vote as long as the Republican Party exists.

In Oregon there's a ballot measure to legalize psilocybin. I'm praying that passes. I've heard it can be hugely helpful for people with severe neurological disorders or hard to treat depression.

Yeah I dropped off our mail in ballots at one of the early voting sites today. Just not worth risking the mail delay right now.

JC wrote:

ClockworkHouse posted this over on the administration thread. I'll admit- I did not consider they would weasel out of this by suggesting that all the topics have already been covered in the first debate...

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Trump trying to tee up canceling the next debate. He's insisting that they only debate foreign policy instead of the announced topics, which are:

  • Fighting COVID-19
  • American Families
  • Race in America
  • Climate Change
  • National Security
  • Leadership

Glad he made it clear that he doesn't want to talk about any of that.

Debate commission adopts new rules to mute microphones to allow Trump, Biden 2 minutes of uninterrupted time per segment. Getting Around the Horned probably guarantees the weaseling out.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/CpKKfES.png)

That's two questions.