[Discussion] Hope to Remember The Trump Administration Thread as being 'transparent and honest'

Let's follow and discuss what our newest presidential administration gets up to, the good, the bad, the lawsuits, and the many many indictments.

They supposedly ship on November 14th. Doubt they'd honor preorders if he dies before then.

Zona wrote:

Rudy was on Fox News, coughing, and said he was tested for COVID two hours ago and was awaiting the results.

That guy is such a wannabe. How pathetic!

Jason Isbell tweeted out:

Here comes the story of the Herman Cain!
OG_slinger wrote:
Zona wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:

Pretty amazing that Team Trump thinks it's great optics to have him leave the hospital early, pose--all Ronald McDonalded-up--in front of the White House, and remove his mask while clearly breathing heavily.

Oh my God, I just watch the video. He took his mask off. He took his mask off next to a photographer. He took his mask off before walking into the White House where hundreds of people work. 72%?! Of the public blame his getting the virus on his own actions and not taking the pandemic seriously enough and he TOOK OFF HIS MASK BEFORE WALKING IN!

Jesus Motherf*cking Christ, Woodrow Wilson was a better president than him… AFTER THE STROKE!

He did it again because he didn't like how it looked the first time.

It's going to be a f*cking campaign commercial in a few hours.

"Triumph Of The Shill."

Look at the videos of Trump breathing.

That is not the breathing of a healthy man.

(Twitter videos)

Video 1

Video 2

Oh man. He’s definitely struggling. I think the odds of a hospital rebound are much higher now, if he looks like that with steroids already in play. I wouldn’t be at all surprised to hear by morning that he’s already back on oxygen, and on a ventilator soon unless they start taking this seriously.

Trump must figure that if he dies, he won't lose the election.

They also definitely edited a cough out of this video.
IMAGE(https://i.postimg.cc/9f3YRNQc/20201005-195845.jpg)

I still can't get past my prior thought.... it appears literally the case that to Trump, losing the election is a scarier outcome than dying. I mean, I totally get why he doesn't care that other people die, the sociopathy thing, but himself too? He must truly fear the blow to his ego.

Murder-Suicide by COVID?

Malor wrote:

I still can't get past my prior thought.... it appears literally the case that to Trump, losing the election is a scarier outcome than dying. I mean, I totally get why he doesn't care that other people die, the sociopathy thing, but himself too? He must truly fear the blow to his ego.

He shows many characteristics of psychopathy. There was a study done a few years ago on how psychopaths process rewards and punishments differently compared with neurotypical people:

“Psychopaths show overoptimism. They always think behaviors will be rewarded. They don’t pay attention to punishment. Predicting punishment tells you behavior is inappropriate,” explained Hodgins. Now, after this study, she added, we can see that “what we observe behaviorally has a neural reason.”

Prinz agreed that psychopaths are more likely believe that no matter the option they choose, the rewards will come. “When interviewed, criminal psychopaths sometimes sound indignant about their incarceration. They are surprised to be caught and think the punishment is undeserved. That seems to be what’s going on here. They think they have the right rule, and then suddenly there is a punishment, telling them they are wrong,” he said.

“For non-psychopaths, that’s no big surprise; they are told in advance that the rule will change,” Prinz said. “Psychopaths are more surprised, or perhaps even indignant: ‘How could I be wrong? How dare they change the rule!’ Activations in the posterior cingulate and insula are consistent with these negative emotions.”

So through that lens, it makes total sense that he'd think he'll beat this thing well before he's actually beaten it, and he'll probably believe that to his dying breath.

When all this started I was fairly certain Trump would make it to the other side being more or less fine, but just watching the last couple days I think “Trump bullies everyone into letting him die trying to maintain his strongman persona” is definitely the most Trumpian way for this to play out.

Chairman_Mao wrote:

There was a study done[/url] a few years ago on how psychopaths process rewards and punishments differently compared with neurotypical people:

“Psychopaths show overoptimism. They always think behaviors will be rewarded. They don’t pay attention to punishment. Predicting punishment tells you behavior is inappropriate,” explained Hodgins. Now, after this study, she added, we can see that “what we observe behaviorally has a neural reason.”

Prinz agreed that psychopaths are more likely believe that no matter the option they choose, the rewards will come. “When interviewed, criminal psychopaths sometimes sound indignant about their incarceration. They are surprised to be caught and think the punishment is undeserved. That seems to be what’s going on here. They think they have the right rule, and then suddenly there is a punishment, telling them they are wrong,” he said.

“For non-psychopaths, that’s no big surprise; they are told in advance that the rule will change,” Prinz said. “Psychopaths are more surprised, or perhaps even indignant: ‘How could I be wrong? How dare they change the rule!’ Activations in the posterior cingulate and insula are consistent with these negative emotions.”

So through that lens, it makes total sense that he'd think he'll beat this thing well before he's actually beaten it, and he'll probably believe that to his dying breath.

wow that sounds like him. Every criticism is not just wrong but "very unfair!"; there's always a tweet where he's doing something he complained about when someone else did the exact same thing; he acts like it's terrible and unthinkable that other people are trying to steal the election while he's stealing the election; etc.

Maybe he's so good at acting shameless because he's *honestly* not feeling shame--there's no reason to think you're a hypocrite if you can't understand negative consequences for you as anything but someone changing the rules on you.

ruhk wrote:

When all this started I was fairly certain Trump would make it to the other side being more or less fine, but just watching the last couple days I think “Trump bullies everyone into letting him die trying to maintain his strongman persona” is definitely the most Trumpian way for this to play out.

"Old white man refuses to see the doctor"... he's just leaning into the racist uncle trope to rile up his base.

Malor wrote:

I still can't get past my prior thought.... it appears literally the case that to Trump, losing the election is a scarier outcome than dying. I mean, I totally get why he doesn't care that other people die, the sociopathy thing, but himself too? He must truly fear the blow to his ego.

It's easy to forget that Trump is 74 years old in a country where the male average life expectancy is 78.5. He has a lot less to lose from dying than a younger man. When you look at it that way, prioritizing the election over his own survival is actually kind of rational. What else is he going to do with the rest of his life?

I see it in my dad, who is only a couple years younger than Trump. Dad is active in the Masons, and he's on track to become the Grand Wizard or whatever their dumb title is for the state of Arizona. He laid out to me the timeline for that happening once, and how long he would be expected to hold that office, and it struck me that it matched up almost perfectly with his life expectancy. He was telling me what he wants to accomplish before he dies.

Dad's a cancer survivor, and while the cancer hasn't come back, he's been in and out of surgery for hernias and back problems and the kind of thing that a younger man would bounce back from kind of a lot over the past couple years. He's usually in pain from one thing or another, but he still gets up every morning, goes for a walk, and goes about his day. And I think it's the Mason thing more than anything else that he gets out of bed for.

Dad loves his grandchildren and spends a lot of time with them, but I think he also knows that that's a project he doesn't get to see to completion. The Mason thing is something he gets to finish himself.

And Dad doesn't take COVID precautions particularly seriously considering his risk factors. He's not cantankerous or irrational about it, he doesn't think it's a hoax or not as bad as people say. But he's made the sober decision that he'd rather live his final years on his own terms and risk having fewer of them than live as a shut-in. So he goes to the grocery store when he could easily get things delivered, and eats out at restaurants, and went back to attending his Mason meetings in person as soon as it was an option. (And, being part of the leadership, he pushed for it being an option, while maintaining the option of virtual attendance for folks who wanted that choice.)

The difference, of course, is that Dad does get tested (he kind of has to, being in and out of the hospital; it's a matter of course now) and I can't imagine he would bully someone into getting into an enclosed space with him if he KNEW he had tested positive.

Still, my point is that I don't think you can chalk it all up to Trump being a sociopath or an idiot or whatever. He absolutely is those things, but he was also a dying man before he caught COVID. Anyone his age is. I don't want to Trump to continue to be president, but from his perspective it makes perfect sense to me that he'd rather die than lose the election. What else has he got going on?

I don't think it is just ego either. I think he sincerely fears the humiliation of defeat followed by what is almost certainly the demolition of his empire in a cloud of prosecutions, scandal, and even very real peril from Soviet gangsters as a fate worse than death. Particularly when death would follow not long afterwards. I think he would rather die as president than as a penniless felon on the run from Russian assassins.

That's true too. (Well, except for the Russian assassins part, which is silly; even hated ex-presidents get Secret Service protection.) Hell, even being elected and immediately declared incompetent to serve would be better, because then he gets a presidential pardon from Pence.

hbi2k wrote:

That's true too. Hell, even being elected and immediately declared incompetent to serve would be better, because then he gets a presidential pardon from Pence.

I think he recognizes at least at some level that escape from justice is looking less and less likely, so dying "on top" is his only option.

hbi2k wrote:

It's easy to forget that Trump is 74 years old in a country where the male average life expectancy is 78.5. He has a lot less to lose from dying than a younger man. When you look at it that way, prioritizing the election over his own survival is actually kind of rational. What else is he going to do with the rest of his life?

Die in jail in NY.

I can't imagine he thinks he would die any time soon. I mean his doctor said he would live to 200...

Paleocon wrote:

I don't think it is just ego either. I think he sincerely fears the humiliation of defeat followed by what is almost certainly the demolition of his empire in a cloud of prosecutions, scandal, and even very real peril from Soviet gangsters as a fate worse than death. Particularly when death would follow not long afterwards. I think he would rather die as president than as a penniless felon on the run from Russian assassins.

Can we stop with this? I get the schadenfreude and there is a certain narrative cohesion in this reality show playing out for Dear Leader like Tony in The Sopranos or Joe Pesci in Casino or Denzel in Training Day.

Stephen A. Smith shares a story of when he was talking with Trump way before the presidential run, when he was still just a reality TV guy. Trump told him, "When you take out a $30 million dollar loan and can't repay it, that's a YOU problem. When it's a $300 million dollar loan, that's an US problem." His point was that if you go big enough, the other side is also on the hook and they'll let you renegotiate and/or work it off because they can't just let it go for nothing.

The idea that someone, anyone, having Agent 47 run around trying to take out an ex-head of state with Secret Service protection for 10years after leaving office is something out of a videogame or prestige TV.

I do agree that his ego will not be able to handle the comedown after being the person with the most attention in the world. To continue the Hollywood comparisons, here is the music I hear playing over all his last week, from the debate, to the walk to the chopper, to signing blank papers, to the drive, to the taking off the mask and the troubled breathing, to the salute:

I feel like SNL blew it this week not having him in the Oval with a mountain of Remdesivir and empty Lysol cans on the Resolute Desk.

I still come back to Trump has never encountered something he couldn't be shielded from by his arsenal of lawyers. The kicker is mother nature does not respond to subpoenas.

His ego can't conceive of something bigger than him which only assures that it draws ever closer to him and he will inevitably meet it.

It seems quite unlike Trump to be willing to die rather than take a defeat.
I assume he just cant imagine the risk, and expects everything will be fine. He isn't exactly used to bad consequences.

hbi2k wrote:

But he's made the sober decision that he'd rather live his final years on his own terms and risk having fewer of them than live as a shut-in. So he goes to the grocery store when he could easily get things delivered, and eats out at restaurants, and went back to attending his Mason meetings in person as soon as it was an option.

I can respect such a decision. It is your life.
As long as you dont endanger anyone else who have not bought into your decision. Problem of course is, it is pretty hard not to endanger other people in the current situation.

Shadout wrote:

It seems quite unlike Trump to be willing to die rather than take a defeat.
I assume he just cant imagine the risk, and expects everything will be fine. He isn't exactly used to bad consequences.

hbi2k wrote:

But he's made the sober decision that he'd rather live his final years on his own terms and risk having fewer of them than live as a shut-in. So he goes to the grocery store when he could easily get things delivered, and eats out at restaurants, and went back to attending his Mason meetings in person as soon as it was an option.

I can respect such a decision. It is your life.
As long as you dont endanger anyone else who have not bought into on your decision. Problem of course is, it is pretty hard not to endanger other people in the current situation.

i suspect it's less that he's willing to die and more that he fundamentally doesn't believe it's possible for him to die, and so doesn't feel the need to take normal precautions against it.

thrawn82 wrote:
Shadout wrote:

It seems quite unlike Trump to be willing to die rather than take a defeat.
I assume he just cant imagine the risk, and expects everything will be fine. He isn't exactly used to bad consequences.

hbi2k wrote:

But he's made the sober decision that he'd rather live his final years on his own terms and risk having fewer of them than live as a shut-in. So he goes to the grocery store when he could easily get things delivered, and eats out at restaurants, and went back to attending his Mason meetings in person as soon as it was an option.

I can respect such a decision. It is your life.
As long as you dont endanger anyone else who have not bought into on your decision. Problem of course is, it is pretty hard not to endanger other people in the current situation.

i suspect it's less that he's willing to die and more that he fundamentally doesn't believe it's possible for him to die, and so doesn't feel the need to take normal precautions against it.

Yeah. We’ve covered this ground before.

It's 2020.. it's safe to go with the reality that Trump will live to 200.

And he just killed the stimulus bill negotiations and sent the stock market cratering.

Are we sure he wants to be reelected? Because this is one of the faster ways to sabotage the economy that he thought he needed to be reelected.

Jesus. It is only going to get worse. He is spreading his filth all over the white house. I wonder whether that will follow the typical 2 week delay before just how awful the situation is becomes known.

Trump halts COVID-19 relief talks until after election

AP wrote:

President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he has instructed aides to stop negotiating on another round of COVID-19 relief until after the election.

Trump tweeted that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was “not negotiating in good faith” and said he’s asked Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell to direct all his focus before the election into confirming his U.S. Supreme Court nominee, Amy Coney Barrett.

“I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business,” Trump tweeted.

Last week, the White House said it was backing a $400 per week pandemic jobless benefit and dangled the possibility of a COVID-19 relief bill of $1.6 trillion. But that offer was rejected by Pelosi.

Trump broke off talks after Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell warned earlier Tuesday that the economic recovery remains fragile seven months into coronavirus pandemic without further economic stimulus.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/9vVE2jp.png)

And in completely unrelated news Biden is now polling ahead of Trump on the only campaign issue Trump's lead the entire election: the economy.