Hades - by Supergiant Games (Bastion, Transistor, Pyre)

I’m at heat 5 with all my business now and finding that my streaks are not as long as they had been... I kind of just want a ‘random pacts’ button to save me agonising over what to do to myself for a given run :p on a similar note, I hate seeing what I missed out on when I take the less reward options pact so it’d be nice if it didn’t tease you with could-have-beens like it does.

I think I’ve just tipped over 80 runs with 30 Hades kills to my name, and I am only just hitting the next layer of content (Erebus gates, companions). Intrigued by the garden and I still have no idea how hidden aspects work but I’m determined not to shortcut anything in this game - Supergiant have done such a fantastic job meting things out that I don’t want to spoil it for myself

Stele wrote:

Yeah I pull up the prerequisites in menu sometimes before choosing a door. Just to see what might be available to add to my current build.

I have a few webpages up to help guide me, but they seem to either be partially correct or maybe out of date.

kazooka wrote:

This is so impressive. What was your heat strategy: what pact options did you take? I've been able to get past the Hydra on 32, but anything beyond that seems pretty iffy.

I've been thinking that I should actually switch to the one res per room Mirror option even though that's been the clearly inferior choice up until this point.

I play with it a bit but something like below. Note this is level not "heat" amount. So 0 is normal 1 - 2 - 3 etc.

Hard Labor - 1
Lasting Consequences - 1
Convenience Fee 1
Jury Summons - 0
Extreme Measures - 3
Calisthenics Program - 0
Benefits Package - 2
Middle management - 1 ( or on)
Underworld Customs - 1 ( or on)
Forced Overtime - 2
Heightened Security - 0
Routine Inspection - 1
Damage Control - 0
Approval Process - 0
Tight Deadline - 3

Things i determined is Jury Summons/Calisthenics Program/Damage Control - Should be avoided. They slow you down even if it makes it easier more time means more time to make a mistake and with heat 32 nearly all mistakes are painful. Also Hard labor does include boss damage so be easy on it. Tight Deadline 5:00 I thought was crazy until I turned all of them off and turned out was not bad. Only gets iffy on 3rd section and if it's iffy it means your damage is too low and time for new run anyway.

I avoided forced overtime at first but that was a mistake. It seemed so bad at first because enemies were just so much faster and messed up your timing. However, it really doesn't make it harder once you get use to the new timings. Also Underworld customs is really not bad if you plan accordingly.

Biggest tips I could give are plan around like 2-3 boon combo depending on your weapon. Any more is too hard to get and to keep speed up you need it to be effective early. Anything not important is underworld customs fodder. Make sure to have your mirror set to the re-roll boon not re-roll room. Grab a key early and save it so you can re-roll well if all 3 skills are ones for your combo. Don't be afraid to use the god Heirlooms to get most important boons early. With rail I ran Zues on section 1 and Athena section 2. Every weapon is different.

Edit - Also with timer it stops on any conversation, store, or even between levels. So plenty of time for drinks or just resting your hands.

Someone please help. When I first started playing Hades, I mistakenly thought that the Wretched Lout was supposed to look like an overweight aunt who just wants to feed me a pie, and now I can't get that out of my head.

IMAGE(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/hades_gamepedia_en/images/9/99/Wretched_Lout.png)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/4qtTexZ.png)

I got my 2nd victory today. The lv 7 Poseidon aid, plus rip current lv 3 and the boons that made my god meter autofill made this like easy mode. I didn't deplete my health bar once. Every 2 seconds I would just run around wrecking fools.

That's nice! I've only had some of the "call starts at 20%" type boons so far. Sometimes I forget to use the darn thing, depending on what it is.

escher77 wrote:
kazooka wrote:

This is so impressive. What was your heat strategy: what pact options did you take? I've been able to get past the Hydra on 32, but anything beyond that seems pretty iffy.

I've been thinking that I should actually switch to the one res per room Mirror option even though that's been the clearly inferior choice up until this point.

I play with it a bit but something like below. Note this is level not "heat" amount. So 0 is normal 1 - 2 - 3 etc.

Hard Labor - 1
Lasting Consequences - 1
Convenience Fee 1
Jury Summons - 0
Extreme Measures - 3
Calisthenics Program - 0
Benefits Package - 2
Middle management - 1 ( or on)
Underworld Customs - 1 ( or on)
Forced Overtime - 2
Heightened Security - 0
Routine Inspection - 1
Damage Control - 0
Approval Process - 0
Tight Deadline - 3

Things i determined is Jury Summons/Calisthenics Program/Damage Control - Should be avoided. They slow you down even if it makes it easier more time means more time to make a mistake and with heat 32 nearly all mistakes are painful. Also Hard labor does include boss damage so be easy on it. Tight Deadline 5:00 I thought was crazy until I turned all of them off and turned out was not bad. Only gets iffy on 3rd section and if it's iffy it means your damage is too low and time for new run anyway.

I avoided forced overtime at first but that was a mistake. It seemed so bad at first because enemies were just so much faster and messed up your timing. However, it really doesn't make it harder once you get use to the new timings. Also Underworld customs is really not bad if you plan accordingly.

Biggest tips I could give are plan around like 2-3 boon combo depending on your weapon. Any more is too hard to get and to keep speed up you need it to be effective early. Anything not important is underworld customs fodder. Make sure to have your mirror set to the re-roll boon not re-roll room. Grab a key early and save it so you can re-roll well if all 3 skills are ones for your combo. Don't be afraid to use the god Heirlooms to get most important boons early. With rail I ran Zues on section 1 and Athena section 2. Every weapon is different.

Edit - Also with timer it stops on any conversation, store, or even between levels. So plenty of time for drinks or just resting your hands.

I love that I have no idea what any of this means — and probably won’t for a long time. This game is so deep.

Once you have the thing that lets you see all the boons, you can actually open the character list on top of the boom selection dialog and double check for noon prereqs and such. At least it works on the switch. I’ve used it to get mostly done with my base-level boon prophecies

Stele wrote:

Yeah I pull up the prerequisites in menu sometimes before choosing a door. Just to see what might be available to add to my current build.

You can pull it up while making your choice, like mid convo with Zeus!

escher77 wrote:
kazooka wrote:

This is so impressive. What was your heat strategy: what pact options did you take? I've been able to get past the Hydra on 32, but anything beyond that seems pretty iffy.

I've been thinking that I should actually switch to the one res per room Mirror option even though that's been the clearly inferior choice up until this point.

I play with it a bit but something like below. Note this is level not "heat" amount. So 0 is normal 1 - 2 - 3 etc.

Hard Labor - 1
Lasting Consequences - 1
Convenience Fee 1
Jury Summons - 0
Extreme Measures - 3
Calisthenics Program - 0
Benefits Package - 2
Middle management - 1 ( or on)
Underworld Customs - 1 ( or on)
Forced Overtime - 2
Heightened Security - 0
Routine Inspection - 1
Damage Control - 0
Approval Process - 0
Tight Deadline - 3

Things i determined is Jury Summons/Calisthenics Program/Damage Control - Should be avoided. They slow you down even if it makes it easier more time means more time to make a mistake and with heat 32 nearly all mistakes are painful. Also Hard labor does include boss damage so be easy on it. Tight Deadline 5:00 I thought was crazy until I turned all of them off and turned out was not bad. Only gets iffy on 3rd section and if it's iffy it means your damage is too low and time for new run anyway.

I avoided forced overtime at first but that was a mistake. It seemed so bad at first because enemies were just so much faster and messed up your timing. However, it really doesn't make it harder once you get use to the new timings. Also Underworld customs is really not bad if you plan accordingly.

Biggest tips I could give are plan around like 2-3 boon combo depending on your weapon. Any more is too hard to get and to keep speed up you need it to be effective early. Anything not important is underworld customs fodder. Make sure to have your mirror set to the re-roll boon not re-roll room. Grab a key early and save it so you can re-roll well if all 3 skills are ones for your combo. Don't be afraid to use the god Heirlooms to get most important boons early. With rail I ran Zues on section 1 and Athena section 2. Every weapon is different.

Edit - Also with timer it stops on any conversation, store, or even between levels. So plenty of time for drinks or just resting your hands.

Yup, I'm still running with a lot of your initial assumptions. Though I'm still not sure if my reflexes are going to be able to handle Overtime, even if I do recognize the patterns.

So ... I just got to the point where I can upgrade weapons with Titan's Blood. And I realized that the blood is a very limited resource, and also that you cannot have multiple aspects on the same weapon at the same time. I may have spent down a lot of my blood in an unhelpful way, just now.

How long will I have to wait, or how difficult will it be, to get more?

Once you wipe out Hades for the first time titan’s blood becomes a lot less scarce

kazooka wrote:

Yup, I'm still running with a lot of your initial assumptions. Though I'm still not sure if my reflexes are going to be able to handle Overtime, even if I do recognize the patterns.

Degradation of reaction time I think is over played. I am not saying it does not happen but if you can handle the game regularly you can handle 40% more :). This just means take you a few extra runs for it to be habit. I think perfect example of this is Ranalin. He does not have best reaction with him going up in age in most games. However, in COD which he plays far too much of his reactions are fine because it's not about thinking just doing. Now if we could just work on his aim.

Do note I think shield/Bow would probably have to change things up because I'm not sure if 5:00 timer is reasonable on those weapons. That also could because of how little I have played them.

What weapon are you attempting with? What damage combo?

got my first hades kill, shield with zeus aspect, mixture of athena, demeter and zeus boons mainly. was a close thing but having demeter's cast was a HUGE help since i could drop that and zip around, plus being able to tank the beams with the shields charge. gotta say as well, if you have a mobile build, athena's boon that gives you health regen (1/sec) when you are out of revives is really useful.
figure i'll farm up some titan's blood now with alot of fury kills. be nice to get some more variety of options for the weapons play styles, maybe i'll find a way to play the bow that i like!

Congrats Tycho! And yes, Stubborn Roots (heal) is the best.

escher77 wrote:

Do note I think shield/Bow would probably have to change things up because I'm not sure if 5:00 timer is reasonable on those weapons. That also could because of how little I have played them.

Haven't tried any of that heat yet, and I know you weren't asking me, but I've been thinking about it. If you see my screenshot on the last page, my two wins are shield (77 min) and bow (51 min). That seems... long.

I didn't really have much time to play video games over the course of the last two months, but this is the first game that has actually pulled its hooks into me since I gave up on The Ghost of Tsushima after the first island.

How many tries did you need to clear the game for the first time? I've never been really good at these types of games, so it took me 33 embarrassing attempts (spear ftw) to get to the "ending" for the first time. Nevertheless, I enjoyed all of the 32 runs before number 33. Without really wanting to, I immediately started run 34. That's how good this game is.

Stele wrote:

Congrats Tycho! And yes, Stubborn Roots (heal) is the best.

escher77 wrote:

Do note I think shield/Bow would probably have to change things up because I'm not sure if 5:00 timer is reasonable on those weapons. That also could because of how little I have played them.

Haven't tried any of that heat yet, and I know you weren't asking me, but I've been thinking about it. If you see my screenshot on the last page, my two wins are shield (77 min) and bow (51 min). That seems... long.

They are but runs get much faster when you learn more. Also just a lot of time saves on simple things like always dashing to next room quickly making decisions on rooms etc. Not just sitting looking at boons when out of a intermission area etc. Time only matters once you start doing the timed runs

Kotaku has a how to win your first time article that is pretty interesting. It's making me rethink some of my own mirror choices. Like Dark Regeneration? I didn't use it because it was only 30%, but I guess it's more after you upgrade it. So maybe I need to flip to that one for more healing during runs.

It also mentions Stubborn Defiance vs Death Defiance, but I think we already had that discussion here. It might help you get to the final boss, but it's not going to help you beat him with only 30% restored.

Stele wrote:

Kotaku has a how to win your first time article that is pretty interesting. It's making me rethink some of my own mirror choices. Like Dark Regeneration? I didn't use it because it was only 30%, but I guess it's more after you upgrade it. So maybe I need to flip to that one for more healing during runs.

It also mentions Stubborn Defiance vs Death Defiance, but I think we already had that discussion here. It might help you get to the final boss, but it's not going to help you beat him with only 30% restored.

I found Dark Regeneration pretty useless, because I hardly ever choose Darkness rooms and I agree with your opinion about Stubborn Defiance. It has never done anything for me. I kept dying against Hades's second form twice since roughly my 20th run, some of those runs were with Stubborn Defiance turned on. The first time I beat the game was the first time in ten runs I had switched back to Death Defiance.

Yeah I don't choose dark rooms anymore either. I guess the article says after you've beaten the first few bosses and are getting dark rewards it is helpful, but then aren't you getting a fountain right after that?

I don't know. Kind of hoping I was specced wrong and that's why I've only won twice.

Brainsmith wrote:

How many tries did you need to clear the game for the first time? I've never been really good at these types of games, so it took me 33 embarrassing attempts (spear ftw) to get to the "ending" for the first time. Nevertheless, I enjoyed all of the 32 runs before number 33. Without really wanting to, I immediately started run 34. That's how good this game is.

18 for first win. 12 more for 2nd win.

Dark Regeneration i ignored also for a long time. However, something I noticed when stuck on a high heat runs was it becomes a lot better if you are doing a run that you have cleared most of the bounties but not killed hades yet. The bosses then drop large amounts of darkness. I believe it's like 50 - 100 - 200 (could be wrong on amou8nts). So the 60% of that heal when you barely live a boss fight can be big. Later on their is a small but important upgrade that also gives very good bonus when picking up darkness.

Side note also very minor but little extra healing when you use sisyphus companion.

That being said I think it is very useless if you are getting fresh bounties from bosses.

I’ve got the bounties from each of the two main bosses and a couple of times from the third. Resetting my mirror and investing in that seems like a good alternative to +3 in ever door. Going to switch up a few of my other skills as well. I’m a couple of keys away from unlocking the last few mirror skills and am curious what those are.

Brainsmith wrote:
Stele wrote:

Kotaku has a how to win your first time article that is pretty interesting. It's making me rethink some of my own mirror choices. Like Dark Regeneration? I didn't use it because it was only 30%, but I guess it's more after you upgrade it. So maybe I need to flip to that one for more healing during runs.

It also mentions Stubborn Defiance vs Death Defiance, but I think we already had that discussion here. It might help you get to the final boss, but it's not going to help you beat him with only 30% restored.

I found Dark Regeneration pretty useless, because I hardly ever choose Darkness rooms and I agree with your opinion about Stubborn Defiance. It has never done anything for me. I kept dying against Hades's second form twice since roughly my 20th run, some of those runs were with Stubborn Defiance turned on. The first time I beat the game was the first time in ten runs I had switched back to Death Defiance.

It seems like there are a bunch of boons that trigger only when you're below 30% health, and so stubborn defiance might synergize really well with those. It essentially becomes a safety net that lets you stay at the health level necessary to keep those boons active -- so long as you don't need more than one revive.

This is just the seed of an idea, though. I have tended not to take those boons, and am not yet good or experienced to even consider trying this as a strategy.

Just fought T&A for the first time! I feel like I held up well, considering I went in with about 15 health and no revives. Got A down by 1/3 to 1/2 before T put a spear through my chest.

Until I read that Kotaku article, I had no idea there were alternate skills. I had unlocked the mirror completely. 29 attempts so far. 4000 darkness. I am shocked I missed that.

Let's see if a skill change will let me get past A&T more reliably.

Aristophan wrote:

Until I read that Kotaku article, I had no idea there were alternate skills. I had unlocked the mirror completely. 29 attempts so far. 4000 darkness. I am shocked I missed that.

Let's see if a skill change will let me get past A&T more reliably.

Yeah, I just found that via a youtube video toady. I knew that it was possible thanks to conversations here and elsewhere, but just figured I had to wait for it to unlock. That's some bad UI.

billt721 wrote:
Aristophan wrote:

Until I read that Kotaku article, I had no idea there were alternate skills. I had unlocked the mirror completely. 29 attempts so far. 4000 darkness. I am shocked I missed that.

Let's see if a skill change will let me get past A&T more reliably.

Yeah, I just found that via a youtube video toady. I knew that it was possible thanks to conversations here and elsewhere, but just figured I had to wait for it to unlock. That's some bad UI.

Agreed. I think I found it by accident while trying to figure out how to complete some of the prophecies.

Aristophan wrote:

Until I read that Kotaku article, I had no idea there were alternate skills. I had unlocked the mirror completely. 29 attempts so far. 4000 darkness. I am shocked I missed that.

Let's see if a skill change will let me get past A&T more reliably.

Next run: Victory!

37:47 with the Rail. The MVP was Hazard Bomb - the special did 300% damage, but it can hurt you. I also lucked into Strong Drink from Dionysus in the first area.

I'm having that same run! Rail Bomb. Beat A&T then had to break to feed the baby. Should sleep but I'm so close I want to see if I can win tonight.

Edit: dammit, phase 2, 50%. I was so dumb. I bought a boon before going into a path and there was the shop that had 1 death defiance restore. Could have bought that and probably won.