Elite Dangerous Catch-All

i don't object to the idea of getting out of the chair, my issue is that so many things that you do while in the chair need dev time to go from ok to really good and i just wish they would do that before they add the walking around.

The walking around segments in Rebel Galaxy Outlaw was meant to bolster the sense of being in a living world, letting you experience the people, the music, give the world a sense of place. If all you want is progression then yeah, it gets in the way. But they aren't pointless, just not something everyone enjoys.

I know "immersion" is a bad word now, but I am looking forward to the experience that Odyssey is promising. The actual activities will probably be similar to the ones we have now, just on foot.

"Space Legs" was something that they promised back in the Kickstarter that a very vocal part of the player base has been wanting. It's also something that Star Citizen has that they don't. So it's a "keep people happy" move.

The only louder group is the "the entire game should be open PvP!" group, so I'm glad they aren't listening to them.

tanstaafl wrote:

The only louder group is the "the entire game should be open PvP!" group, so I'm glad they aren't listening to them.

The moment they start listening to that group is the moment I find a new space game.

maverickz wrote:
tanstaafl wrote:

The only louder group is the "the entire game should be open PvP!" group, so I'm glad they aren't listening to them.

The moment they start listening to that group is the moment I find a new space game.

You and me both.

Fortunately FD have a lot of data, so they know what percentage of players are in Open, Private Group, and Solo.

Hrdina wrote:
maverickz wrote:

The moment they start listening to that group is the moment I find a new space game.

You and me both.
Fortunately FD have a lot of data, so they know what percentage of players are in Open, Private Group, and Solo.

So... are you're saying that doing this upcoming GWJ Days event in "open", to avoid the need to sign all participants into a new common group, is crazy?

that entirely depends on what the difference between masochism and crazy is in your book.

Tycho the Mad wrote:

that entirely depends on what the difference between masochism and crazy is in your book.

I don't know about you, but "announcing on a public forum that a bunch of (mostly) low-intensity non-PvP CMDRs will be in Open at a certain place & time" checks both of those boxes for me.

babakotia wrote:

The space legs stuff will be either pointless or fantastic depending on the amount of game play that comes with them and whether those activities are actually rewarding.

In the same way you can bounty hunt, pirate, trade or explore in Horizons but the only activity that is worth doing in terms of progression is mining.

is babakotia right about the mining being the quickest way to earn credits? That chimes with my experience of the game. I did mining during the tutorial, then never went back to it. It was the activity that felt the most like a real job, whilst feeling the least 'space-y'.

After a couple of attempts in my Asp Explorer (yes, I know... but it was all I had after my first 3-month stint), I steered clear of Combat. The balance between risk and reward wasn't worth it for me as new player, who had found the Combat tutorial really hard. Also, it required making a commitment to a type of ship that seemed to preclude me from doing anything other than combat.

(Looking back, I should probably have played the Combat tutorials many more times in order to become more competent at it. I might do that if I return...)

And for the same reasons, I never even tried Bounty Hunting, which basically appeared to be Combat with some time-consuming 'Search the Galaxy' stuff thrown in.

I ended up focusing on Exploration and Trading, and found the rewards for both very disappointing given the amount of basic, boring flying both involved.

I did half of the Road to Riches exploration, and was surprised by how close to home I was by the time I stopped and how little money I'd earned. I was able to buy, and upgrade to a low level, a Python. But I had to break up and sell my fully upgraded Asp Explorer to do so (yes, that was a mistake too).

EDIT: I remain convinced that Elite: Dangerous is fantastic piece of gaming technology... waiting for a game to be built on top of it.

maverickz wrote:
tanstaafl wrote:

The only louder group is the "the entire game should be open PvP!" group, so I'm glad they aren't listening to them.

The moment they start listening to that group is the moment I find a new space game.

Agreed, the people who are angry because other players are able to escape their griefing are people who can just die mad about that.

detroit20 wrote:

is babakotia right about the mining being the quickest way to earn credits? That chimes with my experience of the game. I did mining during the tutorial, then never went back to it. It was the activity that felt the most like a real job, whilst feeling the least 'space-y'.

After a couple of attempts in my Asp Explorer (yes, I know... but it was all I had after my first 3-month stint), I steered clear of Combat. The balance between risk and reward wasn't worth it for me as new player, who had found the Combat tutorial really hard. Also, it required making a commitment to a type of ship that seemed to preclude me from doing anything other than combat.

(Looking back, I should probably have played the Combat tutorials many more times in order to become more competent at it. I might do that if I return...)

And for the same reasons, I never even tried Bounty Hunting, which basically appeared to be Combat with some time-consuming 'Search the Galaxy' stuff thrown in.

I ended up focusing on Exploration and Trading, and found the rewards for both very disappointing given the amount of basic, boring flying both involved.

I did half of the Road to Riches exploration, and was surprised by how close to home I was by the time I stopped and how little money I'd earned. I was able to buy, and upgrade to a low level, a Python. But I had to break up and sell my fully upgraded Asp Explorer to do so (yes, that was a mistake too).

EDIT: I remain convinced that Elite: Dangerous is fantastic piece of gaming technology... waiting for a game to be built on top of it.

I don't know man. You didn't really do anything wrong. Combat in an Asp Explorer or flying an E-rated Python might present some challenges, but I wouldn't call them mistakes. I think to enjoy Elite you just have to find the activities themselves to be worth your time. It's like when I compared Elite to a trucking sim further up: rewards and such are nice, but if you don't find the actual trucking to be entertaining (and many don't), you're not gonna have a good time.

And yeah, mining has been nerfed hard but from what I hear it's still the fastest way to make credits.

detroit20 wrote:
babakotia wrote:

The space legs stuff will be either pointless or fantastic depending on the amount of game play that comes with them and whether those activities are actually rewarding.

I've not played in quite a while, but there was quite a long period where mining profits greatly exceeded any other kind of money-making in the game.

That doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to enjoy the game, though.

i don't mind that activities pay more or less, the problem is that it really breaks my immersion when the disparity is SO huge. combat especially, it's cool that the risk of a rebuy can be significant, but the fact that the reward is so tiny by comparison. if you're in a midsized combat ship that's gonna cost you 100+million credits aand risk a 3-5 million cred rebuy, you're gonna need to bounty hunt for HOURS to cover the potential rebuy. i think it's really ridiculous that the world fiction says that lots of people are gonna go out, risk their lives and fortunes, all for a few thousand credits when they could go out, mine for an hour and make tens of millions of credits.
piracy is probably the worst offender, since it takes a long time to get 1 ship to drop what you want and the payout is tiny. there's no reason whatsoever to pirate within the system they've created. so why are there tons of pirates out there in ships worth millions of credits that want me to drop 50k worth of cargo.
all of the activities can be fun, but it's so freaking hard to do many of them if you don't already have a ton of credits.

Hey for those of you who expressed interest in an in-game meetup on either the weekend of Oct 10 or Oct 17, can you please:
a) put your name into the GWJ Days spreadsheet
b) fill out this doodle poll with your preferred times
It will probably be pretty hard to find a time that will accommodate everybody. The times in the poll right now are pretty North America-centric but there are a few UK choices. Two different meet-up times could be an option. Feel free to offer feedback here too.

Tycho the Mad wrote:

i don't mind that activities pay more or less, the problem is that it really breaks my immersion when the disparity is SO huge. combat especially, it's cool that the risk of a rebuy can be significant, but the fact that the reward is so tiny by comparison...

i think it's really ridiculous that the world fiction says that lots of people are gonna go out, risk their lives and fortunes, all for a few thousand credits when they could go out, mine for an hour and make tens of millions of credits.

piracy is probably the worst offender, since it takes a long time to get 1 ship to drop what you want and the payout is tiny. there's no reason whatsoever to pirate within the system they've created. so why are there tons of pirates out there in ships worth millions of credits that want me to drop 50k worth of cargo...

Tycho, I wonder whether some of the problem stems from the fact that the galaxy's economy isn't dynamic in terms of supply and demand. Instead, it has be buffed and nerfed by the developers.

Take mining. If mining is incredibly profitable, then more and more people should move into the industry until there's an oversupply of raw materials, prices (and profits) fall and people exit the industry. In part, that's what's happening with oil now in the real word, no? But this is precisely what does not happen organically in E:D.

I agree that Combat is similarly broken. The galaxy is subject to bouts of conflict, and the various governments/factions lack the resources to defend themselves unaided. Given the risks to players, the rewards for acting as a mercenary should - as Tycho says - be significantly higher.

I disagree on the piracy though. I actually think it makes perfect sense for pirates to accumulate wealth, while avoiding risk, by targeting lots of poorly defended ships. As a result, I suspect that Bounty Hunting
may be the most fairly paid activity. Because piracy is a scourge that affects so many individuals.

I'm thinking as I type, but perhaps E:D's unresponsive economy is its most fundamental problem?

I think part of the issue is risk and reward is really skewed. Combat zones and bounty hunting carry some risk but pay relatively little (outside of mission stacking which is no longer a thing) mining can be very risk free if you do it right yet nets billions. Likewise, I had most fun in the game trying to get by in my AspX and Vulture. Once I passed the billion credit mark and had a fully engineered Cutter nothing outside of a Thargoid or perhaps a white dwarf was likely to scratch me anyway.

babakotia wrote:

I think part of the issue is risk and reward is really skewed.

Agreed.

Particularly when you set against a player's gaming time the credits awarded for an activity and the rate at which they can be earned awarded.

At that point, Exploration - for example - is a very poor use of player's time (particularly a newer player's time).

It's all very well for Frontier to maintain a lofty commitment to allowing players to choose their own paths, but - in truth - several of those paths are long one-way streets to boredom and burn-out.

It seems to me that the 'Play Your Way' philosophy only comes to life when you have at least three well-upgraded ships and sufficient modules to configure at least two of them in a number of ways.

EDIT: All this talk has got me thinking about dusting down my HOTAS. I'm not playing anything else at the moment...

I agree the economy is a big part of it. My point about piracy and combat though is you need a huge amount of credits to begin engaging in either and the return on that investment is miniscule. Whereas exploration, mining and, to a lesser extent, trade all require very low buy in and can return vast sums. Anyone who can get a pilots liscense and wants to be wealthy without working hard, just become a space miner,it's cheap to do, requires breaking no law, returns huge sums quickly and is easier by far.
If you have enough money to outfit a pirate ship, you have more then enough money to not need to risk your life already. Sure in any human group you'll have some crazy people, but there's no reason to be a pirate or a bounty hunter either since pirates are not much of a threat, you can usually just boost away long enough to get high wake to another system pretty easily.
And yet there are tons of would be pirates sporting ships that would allow then to live lavish lives of ease.

Ah, I understand your point now.

So - for NPCs and the in-game fiction - there's a 'Pirate Paradox'. While for players there's a 'Combat Paradox'.

That makes sense to me.

that's a great way to put it, FDev has made a neat engine, but they break my engagement they built by making the systems seriously oppose the world they are creating.
for example, why can't you buy materials with credits, in a world of commerce you better believe people would start an exchange of credits to any material. yes, there are some (IMO bad) reasons for not allowing it, but none of them fit with the world that has been built.
i'll suspend disbelief for alot in game, but when almost every interaction breaks immersion to some extent i just can't keep doing it.

tanstaafl wrote:

And is anyone still around who can invite players to the Vixen's private group? So if anyone joins in for the GWJ Days we can add them?

Unlike the in-game squadrons, I think the private groups only have one administrator that can accept applicants... that admin is the player the group is named after. However I just chatted with Veloxi yesterday and he/she is aware of GWJ Days and will add new players to the group. But there will still be a delay, so if you're considering the GWJ Days meet-up, join the "Veloxi" group today, well before GWJ Days.

K I didn't get much in the way of scheduling feedback, but let's go ahead with a plan for GWJ Days this weekend! Here I wrote some goals for us.

GWJ Days for Elite Dangerous players
What?
Join one or both of the following initiatives:

  • A shared community goal for GWJ players in the game Elite Dangerous. This can be enjoyed by everybody, on any time zone, and on any platform.
  • “Peak hours” scheduled where GWJers will have a high chance of encountering one another, doing wing missions, etc while also trying to further the shared community goal. This will probably be more successful if you’re on the PC platform.

When?
For the shared community goal:

  • All day (24 hours) the weekends of October 10-11 and October 17-18

For the “peak hours”:

  • Saturday October 10: 10pm ET -> Late
  • Sunday October 11: 3pm ET / 8pm UK -> 5pm ET / 10pm UK
  • Saturday October 17: None scheduled
  • Sunday October 18: None scheduled

Shared community goal
Short version:

Our goal is to increase the standing of the minor faction named “IMPERIAL FEDERALIST LABOUR PARTY OF VELOXI'S VIXENS”, especially in (but not limited to) the Orcus system.
To achieve the goal, complete missions from the Vixens’ rep in the nearest station in Orcus. Sort the available missions by “Influence” to find the best ones.

Long version:

Spoiler:

The Vixens faction has a presence in the following systems:
Orcus (preferred goal)
Asvinici
Bhodha
HIP 105606
LTT 8657
Mbere
Negasargun
Zhan Wen
Although boosting their influence in Orcus is the preferred goal, boosting their influence in any system at all is good. Branching out to other systems can lead to more variety in game play.
Completing missions is not the only way to achieve the goal. The in-game activities that will help boost influence will vary depending on the state the Vixens faction is in at the time. For example, if the Vixens are at war, then destroying the enemy in combat zones is good. Having said that, completing missions given by the Vixens mission rep at each station is always a good way to boost influence no matter what the state. Sort the available missions by “Influence” to find the best ones.

Our success at boosting their influence won’t be seen immediately but should be obvious one week after the activities. If you’re interested, read up on how “influence” works in the background simulation (BGS) part of the game. https://elite-dangerous.fandom.com/wiki/Influence

Peak Hours
During the peak hours mentioned above, let’s try to meet up with one another! There are no rules but here’s some guidelines to maximize chance of encountering one another:

  • Play on PC instead of console if you have the choice.
  • In-game, play in the private group named “Veloxi” or else in “Open”.
    • If you’re not already a member of “Veloxi” private group, request access today. Do this early!
    • If in Open, coordination using Discord becomes essential. From there you can always decide to make your own private group.
  • Use Discord to coordinate wings and multi-crew.

Prep checklist (do before GWD Days):

  • Request to join the in-game group named “Veloxi” (do this early!)
  • Be sure you can run Discord (can be run in a browser if you don’t feel like downloading it) and log into the GWJ Discord server.
  • Dust off your HOTAS
  • Move your ships to Orcus, if you want to be able to flip between them depending on the mission types.
  • Consider outfitting your larger ships with weapons suitable for multi-player, fighter bays, etc.
  • Buy the fanciest paint jobs if you want to show off.
  • If you’re not already “Allied” with the Vixen’s minor faction, then do some missions before GWJ Days so that you become “cordial” or “friendly” or “allied” with them. The best missions are unlocked when you are “friendly”.

Thanks for taking the time to make these arrangements, lorenzolio. I know you're already on my E:D friends list; anyone else here is free to add me.

Other than a single local test flight when I bought a new monitor, I haven't flown in E:D since 25 December. My Corvette's been docked at Dvorsi since then.

Today I decided to check see that all of my usual external tools (EDD, EDMC, EDDI) were updated. I fired up EDD and it said there were no updates, which seemed surprising unless the thing had been abandoned. So I checked in to their GitHub page to see that the latest release is 11.7.4 (I was at 9.1.4). I scrolled back through history to see what's changed, and in 9.1.5 they have "Fixed message showing that a new version is available not working". Looks like new people own it now, and they've changed the installer; I had to uninstall the old one before installing the new one. Now I have to let it run for a long time to re-synch its database.

Now I have to decide whether to come to Orcus in my Corvette, or fly back to Shinrarta Dezhra and switch into my Python, which might be more appropriate for mission running.

I can't promise to be around during the peak hours tonight since that's usually dinner & TV time with Mrs. Hrdina.

Probably won't be able to be on today due to prior commitments, but will try to get on tomorrow if I can get my CH products joystick working under Windows 10.

I've gone a few posts back, and think I have the right information.

I intend to have either the Matthew Henson or Crozier's Revenge in Orcus for Sunday's 3:00EST sessions. o7.

I'm on my way back in from Colonia with my Phantom. Only... 300 or so jumps.

I need to have my alt (Anne Trovert) submit a request to join the Vixens.

Tans, that's one way to earn at least 20mil.

Crozier's Revenge has arrived at Tombaugh. Ready for tomorrow. Now, I'm not in Veloxi's Vixens; when I started playing last year it had become all but defunct and I could never get an invite. I've ended up in a large, yet feels small, squadron that typically has 10-20 folks on.

It's the first "gaming space" since GWJ and the GamerParent community of folks where I've not experienced any cringe-y "gamerz" feelings.

Looking forward to lending my services for the Vixens out here, though.

IMAGE(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1658972492056328354/5D8A420B64D25F794CD470B38AA1B74E81C99DB8/)

Just me and a bunch of NPCs here in Orcus.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/fXj9c0j.png)

Hrdina, are you in Open? was there for a while before taking missions and bouncing out. Guess.... I should also ask if you are on PC.