[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

I think what I find abhorrent about the US experience (and I am confident it is probably worse in India Russia or Brazil) is that Fauci said he wanted to see 10,000 new cases a day. I think the US is around 40,000 new cases daily? The law of percentages of fatalities being what it is, that's a lot of dead citizens that could be saved from people taking on some modicum of social responsibility and masking up, testing when symptomatic, and staying home while waiting for results.

The weird thing is, if the government subsidised free testing, I'm fairly sure it will cost the US economy less than it does to let the pandemic continue to rip through the population and the ongoing contractionary effect it has on consumer confidence and spending/investment. If around 1% have been infected (1% of 300m citizens is a big number) then y'all years away from herd immunity.

Canadian centric but curious as to others thoughts.

Anti-masker broke quarantine to speak at Toronto anti-lockdown protest after travelling to Europe

I'm pretty just fed up of half measures and just relying on people to be better.

Throw clowns like this in jail. If it starts a sh*t storm debate about how we are sliding into an authoritarian regime so be it. This is a collective problem and we are demonstrating we need some parenting.

Bfgp wrote:

then y'all years away from herd immunity.

Hey, but we are rubbing off on you.

One thing that I think everyone---but especially Americans---need to understand is that there's not going to be a magic bullet. There will be no singular strategy or piece of technology that will stop the pandemic. Not vaccines or universal masking or lockdowns or any specific set of drugs and treatments. It's going to take all of those things and more---and different things at different times---to bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control.

It's going to take a variety of efforts made in concert in areas all over the country (and all over the world) to see this thing through. We collectively seem to be biding our time waiting for a miraculous bit of tech to save us, or else sticking our fingers in our ears and saying it's over, or (worst of all) admitting that it's ongoing and just thinking we should accept widespread death as the cost of normal life.

Even with a vaccine, we have a long road ahead of us.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

There will be no singular strategy or piece of technology that will stop the pandemic. Not vaccines or universal masking or lockdowns or any specific set of drugs and treatments. It's going to take all of those things and more---and different things at different times---to bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control.

Not sure I’m with you here. A number of counties appear to have it well under control using specifically masking requirements and lockdowns. It’s not perfect, and it’s not a magic bullet, but it’s pretty friggin good. Seriously; just do those two things, and it will “bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control “. There is clear evidence of that. It really doesn’t need to be more complex than that.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Not sure I’m with you here. A number of counties appear to have it well under control using specifically masking requirements and lockdowns. It’s not perfect, and it’s not a magic bullet, but it’s pretty friggin good. Seriously; just do those two things, and it will “bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control “. There is clear evidence of that. It really doesn’t need to be more complex than that.

The complexity isn't in WHAT to do, it's HOW to get it done in this country.

You can't use that magic bullet to shoot compliance into people who are avowedly against something.

Those countries have also followed up with rigorous contact tracing and other measures, and some of them are seeing worrying increases in cases as they've let down their guards. They've implemented travel restrictions not only with other countries but within themselves. It's a continuous, ongoing, disruptive process in large and small ways, and every country that has it under control knows that their control is tenuous. Everywhere where things have gone well, they've depended on more than one solution and more than one mechanism of control.

Jonman wrote:
Chumpy_McChump wrote:

Not sure I’m with you here. A number of counties appear to have it well under control using specifically masking requirements and lockdowns. It’s not perfect, and it’s not a magic bullet, but it’s pretty friggin good. Seriously; just do those two things, and it will “bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control “. There is clear evidence of that. It really doesn’t need to be more complex than that.

The complexity isn't in WHAT to do, it's HOW to get it done in this country.

That wasn’t the point, though. Clock’s commentary was specifically on the what.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Everywhere where things have gone well, they've depended on more than one solution and more than one mechanism of control.

Fair enough. I’m in Nova Scotia, where things are going very well, and I’ve been fortunate enough to not be tremendously personally impacted. I’ll certainly grant that that’s going to affect how I see what’s going on.

I stand by the idea that masking and distancing is a totally reasonable place to start.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
ClockworkHouse wrote:

There will be no singular strategy or piece of technology that will stop the pandemic. Not vaccines or universal masking or lockdowns or any specific set of drugs and treatments. It's going to take all of those things and more---and different things at different times---to bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control.

Not sure I’m with you here. A number of counties appear to have it well under control using specifically masking requirements and lockdowns. It’s not perfect, and it’s not a magic bullet, but it’s pretty friggin good. Seriously; just do those two things, and it will “bring the pandemic down to a safer and sustainable level of control “. There is clear evidence of that. It really doesn’t need to be more complex than that.

I live in Quebec. We have had masks and social distancing since a couple of weeks in. And now, after such a long period of time of being under restriction, we are starting to see the cases rise dramatically. Masksa nd lockdowns only work if people are willing to follow them. And, unfortunately, there are a large number of people who simply refuse to follow them.

I'm not sure how I gave the impression those aren't a great place to start. They're an excellent place to start!

But we shouldn't think we should stop there. They're not enough on their own, nor will any single solution be enough on its own.

I don't know what things are like in Nova Scotia, but in the States the last six months has felt like a succession of single solutions with a vaccine as the one solution to finally end it all. I think Americans (and others in the world) are in for a rude awakening when vaccines are available and there still need to be other measures in place at least intermittently for a few years to come.

Well. Update.

We’re now being told that if we meet with anyone indoors - in any venue - we’ll be fined (£100 for first offence rising to £6400 for repeated offences) if those people are not of our household or support bubble.

However, although it is not recommended, you can meet up with people not of you household so long as you are outdoors and maintain social distance, and there’s no most than 6 of you. This has come as considerable surprise to most of us who though the whole ban on households mixing was both indoors and outdoors, but there we go.

Mrs Sorb is very pleased. Today she’s talking her parents dogs for a walk with them, then meeting up with the school Mum’s for a further walking (and probably a coffee from the local outdoor coffee kiosk) and then meeting up with another friend to walk their dog ‘cos she hasn’t seen her for ages.

I will admit that’s probably overdoing it a little, and she’ll be dead on her feet by teatime, but the impact on Mrs Sorb’s mental health vastly outweighs any potential impact on her health if they are all outdoors. Her mood this morning is positively buoyant compared to what it’s been over the weekend.

But certain individuals don’t get kickbacks so it won’t be approved in the US.

thrawn82 wrote:

OoOOOOH POC testing for covid, thats awesome!

POC testing??

BadKen wrote:

But certain individuals don’t get kickbacks so it won’t be approved in the US.

From the article wrote:

Abbott has already shipped more than 11 million ID NOW tests to all 50 U.S. states, Washington D.C. and the U.S. territories.

mudbunny wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

OoOOOOH POC testing for covid, thats awesome!

POC testing??

Point of Care - usually the doctor's office or whatnot

Tanglebones wrote:
mudbunny wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

OoOOOOH POC testing for covid, thats awesome!

POC testing??

Point of Care - usually the doctor's office or whatnot

Thanks.
I was confused as well.

I got my flu shot today just in case. I think I was the youngest there by 30 years.

mudbunny wrote:
BadKen wrote:

But certain individuals don’t get kickbacks so it won’t be approved in the US.

From the article wrote:

Abbott has already shipped more than 11 million ID NOW tests to all 50 U.S. states, Washington D.C. and the U.S. territories.

Stop pissing on my irrational pessimism.

So, that article didn't mention a single expert that said this, in fact the opening section is the only place that mentioned experts and it was talking about how experts (along with politicians and officials) have been clinging the term "back to normal". Seems more like an editorial trying to create more divide then anything based in fact and using a clickbait headline to get you in.

kazar wrote:

So, that article didn't mention a single expert that said this, in fact the opening section is the only place that mentioned experts and it was talking about how experts (along with politicians and officials) have been clinging the term "back to normal". Seems more like an editorial trying to create more divide then anything based in fact and using a clickbait headline to get you in.

It was analysis that we’re not going to go back to the way things were before the pandemic. The headline accurately described the thesis. I thought it was interesting.

I can relate to a lot of this, to be honest. This summer I started throwing hard to clean recyclables in the trash. My time is precious. I’m f*cking miserable right now. I might die this year. 40% of this country doesn’t care to bother to solve big problems anyway. So I just gave up on something that used to matter to me. It’s not the only habit I picked up during Covid and probably won’t be the last.

BadKen wrote:

Stop pissing on my irrational pessimism.

It's 2020. No amount of pessimism is irrational. Optimism is irrational.

It's weird to read a line about going back to January with nostalgia when January was the worst month of your life.

Coronavirus has really show how little we all have in common.

kazar wrote:

So, that article didn't mention a single expert that said this, in fact the opening section is the only place that mentioned experts and it was talking about how experts (along with politicians and officials) have been clinging the term "back to normal". Seems more like an editorial trying to create more divide then anything based in fact and using a clickbait headline to get you in.

Doesn't mean that it's not true. In fact, I hope that it IS true. I definitely don't want to go back to the same "normal" we had before the pandemic. I want to go into the future with a much better "normal" than we've ever had.

bekkilyn wrote:
kazar wrote:

So, that article didn't mention a single expert that said this, in fact the opening section is the only place that mentioned experts and it was talking about how experts (along with politicians and officials) have been clinging the term "back to normal". Seems more like an editorial trying to create more divide then anything based in fact and using a clickbait headline to get you in.

Doesn't mean that it's not true. In fact, I hope that it IS true. I definitely don't want to go back to the same "normal" we had before the pandemic. I want to go into the future with a much better "normal" than we've ever had.

I wasn't debating the content of the article. Personally I don't see once we figure this virus out, why would continue to act as if we are still in a pandemic (now I don't know when we will figure this virus out so maybe it might be 5 years). I just found the headline to be dishonest and trying to speak from a position of authority, when in fact it was just an opinion piece.

It seems like we have had a new disease that has almost caused a pandemic on a fairly regular schedule it is just that SARS, MIRS, etc. didn't quite click.

So no we shouldn't go back to "normal" we were dodging bullets normally we need an actual plan and put thought into the response to the next new disease.

farley3k wrote:

we need an actual plan and put thought into the response to the next new disease.

There was one prepared by the Obama administration. It was thrown out because it had black man cooties on it.

SARS and MERS both showed symptoms very early in the disease progression allowing us to stop it very quickly. SARS-CoV-2 has been a stealth virus which has greatly diminished our ability to control its spread and paired with how deadly and damage causing it can be (still not huge like Ebola but not insignificant either) is why we are here now. We haven't seen a virus like this in a long long time. Also, with all the research we are doing right now to defeat SARS-CoV-2 we will have a lot of ammunition for other coronaviruses like SARS and MERS. We will have a template to create a vaccine and have additional treatments.

A few things.

- This could take years to be "over"
- I plan on trying not to work form an office too much if I can help it
- I'll always wear a mask, even when I'm sick, long after this is "over"
- I don't plan to go to restaurants or sporting events or concerts until this is really and truly over

It feels to me like things have changed permanently. Cool that it doesn't for you. I want to live in that world, but honestly I can't.