Home Theater catch-all

Chaz wrote:

So I have four in wall wires, but I can only really use two. So I've got the two rears running off a Sonos Amp, then an Arc and Sub. They're all wireless, but you'd never know. And you can always wire them to the network if there's interference.

At least if you want to run more wires, it's possible to use the ones already there to pull more through.

Depending on your home (or spouse) situation you can always look at using flat speaker wire. Spackle then paint. Above was just an example, there are couple different brands out there, so do a bit of research (another example).

You can also sometimes pull the baseboards, run the wire behind that, and replace it again, although that depends on the thickness of the baseboards and the rug. Sometimes that's a huge PITA. If a wall has been painted poorly, so that paint slopped onto the baseboards, this can be particularly troublesome.

LouZiffer wrote:
Chaz wrote:

So I have four in wall wires, but I can only really use two. So I've got the two rears running off a Sonos Amp, then an Arc and Sub. They're all wireless, but you'd never know. And you can always wire them to the network if there's interference.

At least if you want to run more wires, it's possible to use the ones already there to pull more through.

Yeah, theoretically, but there's a really good chance he stapled the wires to the studs as he went. It'd also mean pulling them halfway around the room one way, then halfway back because of the dumbass way he did it. The route is further complicated because there's a fireplace in the way to get to the left channel, and the right is in a soffit above the kitchen cabinets. As it is, I was able to get the wires mostly hidden for whenever I need to use them again.

That flat speaker wire is pretty interesting though.

I went with the Yamaha MusicCast wireless system last year, with 2 wireless back surrounds. They work ok when they work, but they are subject to dropout, which may have more to do with my network congestion than their design. I do like the Yamaha receiver tho

Getting ready to finish up the 45th anniversary Blu-ray of Jaws once it gets dark with our janky backyard setup. It's really cool for a ~$250 1080p native projector.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/R7BGwOX.jpg)

Edit:

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/ZQikfvz.jpg)

Perfect shot from that film.

Do you wear headphones or do your neighbors not care about the noise?

LeapingGnome wrote:

Do you wear headphones or do your neighbors not care about the noise?

We've let the neighbors know and they haven't had any issues so far. I have a tiny, tiny amp that I hooked up a couple really crappy bookshelf speakers to. I do proactively turn it down during action stuff and up during dialogue which is a little annoying. There really isn't any bass, so that's probably the main thing that would get annoying and carry. We also are kinda limiting it from 9:30 to 12:30 or so because we generally don't stay up past that and that's the only time when it's dark enough during the summer.

It's an old neighborhood where the houses are spaced pretty far apart.

ARISE, THREAD!

I mentioned a bit ago that we are having a back patio poured and covered. I was waffling on how I want to have music out there but have finally decided for sure what I want. This is what I am looking at getting:

Living Room
- Amp
- Sub

Back Patio
- 1 Pair Wired Outdoor Speakers
- Decent speaker wire for these speakers

I already have 4 speakers wired in the living room and a center speaker upstairs I can bring downstairs.

I won't ever do any Atmos stuff, so I think I'm ok with a 7.2 amp. I'm not getting a sub for out back right now, but I want the .2 just in case.

For the Amp, these are the must haves:
- 7.2 w/2 zones (5.1 and 2.1)
- Bluetooth
- 4 x HDMI In

These are things that would be nice, but not required:
- 2 HDMI Out
- 9.2, dual zone
- The ability to output the same video/audio to both zones
- Control via smart phone

As far as the amp goes, I'm worried that I will find what I think is a "good deal" (for instance, this factory refurb Denon ) and buy it, then find out that my new amp doesn't have Feature X or Y that any decent new(ish) amp should have. Or that the amp is just not a good one but has good reviews because people like me who don't know much don't know any better.

1) What features should I look for that a n00b like myself wouldn't think of?

2) Are there any brands (models, etc.) I should avoid?

3) Any brands/models you recommend?

I'm no audiophile and don't need perfection. I don't need a living room that sounds like a movie theatre. I just want decent sound from components that should last for years.

-BEP

(continuation)

And then there's the outdoor speakers. I was seriously considering a Sonos Move with the plan of just using it via Bluetooth and taking it out back only when we need it. It does seem like a nice piece of kit, but after waffling some, I decided to go with wired.

So, I'm looking for a pair of permanent outdoor speakers. The patio will be relatively small, so I only want/need 2 speakers. These are options I've looked at:

- 1 Pair DefTech AW 5500 / DefTech AW 6500
- 1 Pair Polk Atrium6
- 1 Pair Klipsch AW-650
- 1 Single Polk Atrium8 SDI (w/the possibility of adding a second later)

I'd like to spend less than what the above speakers cost, but I don't want to sacrifice much quality so I'll spend it if I have to.

I want to go without a sub for now, maybe forever. So, the speakers need to have decent low end.

Qs:
1) Is there anything specific I need to look out for when buying outdoor speakers - besides weather resistance?

2) Is using ceiling mount outdoor speakers (like these) stupid? I worry about bugs and crap getting in them since they won't be used very often so bugs will have time to settle in. I'm also worried about bad sound coming from them because of where they are. I won't have a professional installing them so they will just be mounted into the "ceiling" of the covered patio. These bug and bad acoustics worries are based on speculation, not any facts that I know.

3) What am I overlooking or just not thinking of?

-BEP

Go Klipsch for the speakers! That's not really a recommendation. I just love their speakers and have all kinds of them.

So, the speakers will be outdoors but covered? I was going to say you could use marine tinned copper speaker wire to help with corrosion, but you might be okay since you're not near the ocean and they won't be rained on.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

Go Klipsch for the speakers! That's not really a recommendation. I just love their speakers and have all kinds of them.

Well, to bring in the old "all audio is subjective" end of things...

Klipsch in my experience can be very love it or hate it. The horn tweeters are a thing you're either in for or are very very out for.

I have a full set for my home theater, Reference series 8 inch towers and the same series 6inch bookshelves for rears, matching center channel, etc. They're great for that. It's an excellent home theater setup.

I hate them for listening to music. I cannot even describe how much I dislike them for music. The towers, in direct stereo, are miserable. The only way I can make the tweeters not annoying for music is to EQ the crap out of them. They've been bi-amped, and even run off a tube amp to see if it would smooth them out some. It did not.

I have a pair of BIC America DV-64's that were quite genuinely a fifth of the price of the Klipsch towers. I've blind side by sided both sets of towers to several different people since I've had them, and in all cases the experience talked people out of spending more on Klipsch.

But again, subjective, etc. My full recommendation is buy somewhere with a good return policy and then don't do anything permanent install-wise until you've gotten to test whatever you get. Be sure you aren't in the crowd that find whatever you buy frustrating or annoying before you have them permanently installed somewhere.

Thin_J wrote:
tuffalobuffalo wrote:

Go Klipsch for the speakers! That's not really a recommendation. I just love their speakers and have all kinds of them.

Well, to bring in the old "all audio is subjective" end of things...

Klipsch in my experience can be very love it or hate it. The horn tweeters are a thing you're either in for or are very very out for.

I have a full set for my home theater, Reference series 8 inch towers and the same series 6inch bookshelves for rears, matching center channel, etc. They're great for that. It's an excellent home theater setup.

I hate them for listening to music. I cannot even describe how much I dislike them for music. The towers, in direct stereo, are miserable. The only way I can make the tweeters not annoying for music is to EQ the crap out of them. They've been bi-amped, and even run off a tube amp to see if it would smooth them out some. It did not.

I have a pair of BIC America DV-64's that were quite genuinely a fifth of the price of the Klipsch towers. I've blind side by sided both sets of towers to several different people since I've had them, and in all cases the experience talked people out of spending more on Klipsch.

But again, subjective, etc. My full recommendation is buy somewhere with a good return policy and then don't do anything permanent install-wise until you've gotten to test whatever you get. Be sure you aren't in the crowd that find whatever you buy frustrating or annoying before you have them permanently installed somewhere.

Interesting! I don't have a Klipsch home theater setup and haven't heard one. I probably would never have the money to go that route in the future. We'll see! I have a pair of bookshelf speakers I got on the cheap that I use for my PC setup. They're nice enough for that. The ones I love are the 80s Forte IIs that I use with a simple Yamaha amp and a Rega turntable for vinyl. They're soft and mellow. I love them for music. They are huge, though.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

Interesting! I don't have a Klipsch home theater setup and haven't heard one. I probably would never have the money to go that route in the future. We'll see! I have a pair of bookshelf speakers I got on the cheap that I use for my PC setup. They're nice enough for that. The ones I love are the 80s Forte IIs that I use with a simple Yamaha amp and a Rega turntable for vinyl. They're soft and mellow. I love them for music. They are huge, though.

The current model of your speakers, the Forte III's, are $4,000 for a pair.

For what it's worth, I've heard great things about the current Klipsch Heresy IV's ($3,000 a pair, a... relative bargain? :lol:) from other people who have had similar experiences with the more common models of Klipsch speakers like my RP-8000F towers. It seems like they do very different things when you start getting into their high end. The Heresy's have way more in common with your Forte's than my towers do.

Anywho, main point being, I would not rely in positive impressions of very high end Klipsch for decisions on their much lower end speakers. In particular, their smaller speakers like the ones they sell as outdoor models, I would expect to come off as "shouty" on the treble end of things.

Some folks like that though.

Thin_J wrote:

Anywho, main point being, I would not rely in positive impressions of very high end Klipsch for decisions on their much lower end speakers. In particular, their smaller speakers like the ones they sell as outdoor models, I would expect to come off as "shouty" on the treble end of things.

Some folks like that though.

Gotcha. Good to know in case I ever do a home theater setup.

I have a pair of Heresy 1 and absolutely love them. Currently run them with an old beater Yamaha 5.1 amp and a turntable. I hope to upgrade the amp to a tube unit at some point.

Hooray for hard wiring! IMHO you're doing the right thing by getting a high end receiver/amp. If you're anything like me, you're going to spend 90% of your time inside and only utilize those outdoor speakers 10% of the time. With that type of usage, I would recommend you go a little cheaper on the outdoor speakers, knowing you can replace those easily in the future, and spend more money on the indoor setup where the bulk of your usage goes. Slide that around to match your usage expectations.

In my case, I bought these Polk Audio outdoor speakers for my patio. They are not nearly as nice as my inside set, but they are good enough that I can enjoy music or TV sound outside without any real complaints. Sure, the highs aren't as crisp as I like, and sure, I would like more bass, but, they're good enough.

When it comes to the receiver/amp, I can't say enough good things about Yamaha. I love their Alexa integration, the sound and video processing has never caused an issue for me, and their multi-zone support is excellent. I know older Yamaha's had some real processing issues for surround sound and 4k video, but I just haven't seen or heard those problems with my setup.

I've also had good experience with Yamaha amps and receivers.

I have no experience with Yamaha, but have owned both Denon and Onkyo. Onks tend to be bright (strong treble), so you have to be careful about what speaker you pair them with, and they run hot, emitting quite a bit of heat all the time they're on, even when no actual sound is playing.

Denons are warmer than Onkyos; I'd call them pretty neutral, overall. They run cool at idle and tend not to heat up much. I like them a lot. I prefer them quite a bit over the Onkyos I've had.

I've never heard a Denon receiver I didn't like; I've owned several and have heard quite a few in stores, over the years. I think they're one of the best of the mass-market audio companies. It's their midrange ($500-$900) where they really shine, IMO.

edit: I'm remembering one super-cheap receiver I tried that didn't excite me, and failed early. But I don't remember now if it was Denon or Onkyo. It wasn't bad, exactly, but it didn't sound nearly as nice as the moderately more expensive units. Midrange Denons are really, really good.

Yeah, my last receiver before my current Yamaha was an Onkyo. For the price, It was great as an entry level receiver to get started with my 5.1 setup. But, I definitely felt like I outgrew it. As I upgraded the speakers over time, I had some real problems with the surround sound processing. I felt like I was constantly trying to tweak it to get the sound I wanted in different situations. And it certainly wasn't capable of my needs in adding additional zones. The multi-zone support there was incredibly basic and only capable of playing the same input to all zones, rather than different inputs to different zones.

Appreciate all the input. I'm glad to hear that Denon is a decent brand. I like my current Denon AVR-3806, it's just too old to do what I need unless I use an HDMI switcher and some sort of Bluetooth device as an input.

So, I'll probably go with Denon again if I find one that does what I need and is affordable.

-BEP

bepnewt wrote:

2) Is using ceiling mount outdoor speakers (like these) stupid? I worry about bugs and crap getting in them since they won't be used very often so bugs will have time to settle in. I'm also worried about bad sound coming from them because of where they are. I won't have a professional installing them so they will just be mounted into the "ceiling" of the covered patio. These bug and bad acoustics worries are based on speculation, not any facts that I know.

The breaking-of-ground starts Monday or Tuesday. Does anyone have any input on the above?

Also, I need to buy speaker wire. I'm looking at between 20' and 30' of wire for each speaker, depending on which type of speaker I get (wall mount vs. ceiling mount). Any advice?

-BEP

I wouldn’t do those types of ceiling mounted speakers for a covered patio unless it’s dry wall or drop ceiling. If it’s a gazebo or pergola style I’d get outdoor speakers that mount in the corner with a angle mount. You can run the wires up the sides of the posts and hide them fairly well.

Depending on how the patio connects to the house you may want to consider running the speaker wire under the ground to the house inside conduit..running even outdoor rated speaker wire will eventually fall prey to all sorts of disasters.

It will be a drop-ceiling situation, but I've decided to just go with a typical outdoor speaker that mounts on a wall/beam/whatever. Thanks for the input.

I brought my old Denon 3806 downstairs to see if the 4 speakers in the ceiling work and sound OK. I was pleasantly surprised. I checked in the attic and these are the speaker the previous owner installed:

MartinLogan - ElectroMotion R - In-Ceiling Speaker

They sound pretty good. Kit wasn't impressed with how loud they got. Maybe because she was napping.

Now, I gotta figure out speaker wire.

-BEP

At $600/speaker, those could be downright decent. Nice find!

If you don't do conduit for the wire, you could use marine grade speaker wire, which is tinned copper. You can also slather dielectric grease (from a marine store as well) on the exposed connections to the speakers to fight corrosion. That's what you would do for a boat speaker setup.

Malor wrote:

At $600/speaker, those could be downright decent. Nice find!

No doubt. No complaints here.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

If you don't do conduit for the wire, you could use marine grade speaker wire, which is tinned copper. You can also slather dielectric grease (from a marine store as well) on the exposed connections to the speakers to fight corrosion. That's what you would do for a boat speaker setup.

The wires are going to be coming through the wall/soffit right where the speakers will (currently) be mounted so 99% of it will be in the wall/attic. I grabbed some dielectric grease for the exposed connection. Thanks for the tip.

Duh, I just realized I'll be connecting these with banana clips, not screwing the wires down. Oh, well, the order is already shipped. Maybe it will still come in handy.

-BEP

You can use it for automotive purposes, mainly you can slather some all over the battery terminal connections.

I just wanted to type "slather" again.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

You can use it for automotive purposes, mainly you can slather some all over the battery terminal connections.

And guitar strings! Maybe not.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

I just wanted to type "slather" again. :)

Fixed.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/2VE0tIt.png)

-BEP