Soccer Gaming Catch-All

Prederick wrote:

Alright, I do have one PES gripe: Fouls.

I've been called for a foul making perfectly legal tackles, while the AI gets called rarely to never sometimes. At one point, we got called for a foul for getting tackled off the ball. It can be a bit infuriating.

One of the patches made this worse imo. I haven't got the impression it's unfairly biased regarding the AI but a bunch of stuff I would get away with in the past is getting called, stuff that to me looks like nothing more than a 50/50 challenge.

juv3nal wrote:
Prederick wrote:

Alright, I do have one PES gripe: Fouls.

I've been called for a foul making perfectly legal tackles, while the AI gets called rarely to never sometimes. At one point, we got called for a foul for getting tackled off the ball. It can be a bit infuriating.

One of the patches made this worse imo. I haven't got the impression it's unfairly biased regarding the AI but a bunch of stuff I would get away with in the past is getting called, stuff that to me looks like nothing more than a 50/50 challenge.

This 7 minute video summarizes the latest patch pretty neatly.

Unfortunately because of one of the actual improvements (AI actually does slide tackles and more often tries mistimed ones) makes an unfixed error stand out more (where fouls are almost never called when the AI does it).

Yeah, it was just so noticeable last night when I was playing. It felt pretty decent at release, but I'm getting called for ev-er-y-thing now, and it takes a LOT for the AI to get popped. Like, something in the Nigel de Jong in 2010 range.

Hoping a decent enough deal on PES comes up in January. Is anyone playing on PC? How does it hold up on there compared to console? It's currently on offer for £27 in UK, although I'm hoping that'll slip further to £20.

It's the details in PES that I have always enjoyed most. Specifically last night, when I scored a goal on a close-range shot that zipped through the legs of a defender trying to block it. The GK was clearly unsighted and reacted late, and the ball bounced off his shoulder before caroming into the side of the net.

The AI then scored off of a free-kick from the softest goddamn foul I've ever seen given, so swings and roundabouts.

I've been playing a lot of MyClub lately, and co-op with a childhood friend. When discussing our progress on chat, it gets weird and inappropriate very fast.

(In MyClub, a player's rarity and quality is defined by white (weakest) - bronze - silver - gold - black (strongest). This is symbolized by a football).

Some excerpts:

"I have nothing but black balls now."
"A scout gave me 2 black balls."
"I just drew a black ball!"
"I now have four black CB's."
"I finally have an all-black bench!"

I can forget a career in politics now, thanks Konami!

I've always been a Franchise Mode guy personally, so I've never really been able to enjoy those mechanics, especially once I watched videos of people playing them online and saw how outright predatory they felt.

I swear, I do enjoy PES, but there are always a few simple little additions that I'd always like that could make all the difference in the world. For instance, PES desperately needs to allow you to issue tactical directions by position, not just for the whole team. It doesn't need to be super-FM robust, but it's 2020, I should be able to designate my wingers as outright wingers (hug the touchline) or inside forwards (cut inside and make runs into the box), to designate a player as a holding midfielder, as a defensive fullback or an all-action Dani Alves type.

That and I really would like the AI to react better to the team they're up against. Like, maybe there's some rudimentary way to do it via Overall ratings or something, but in my head, if I'm playing a team that's rated, say, an 80, anyone within 5 points would play you straight up. A team 5-10 points better would try to take the game to you more, and a team 11+ points better would just come out and expect to attack and dominate. Meanwhile, a team 5-10 points worse might set up more defensively and try to counterattack, and a team 11+ points worse would just try to survive and maybe nick a goal from a setpiece. You don't even have to worry about individual manager mentalities then, but playing some Ligue 2 team with PSG shouldn't feel the same as playing Man City.

I wouldn't have kept at it unless I had a buddy to play with, to be honest. As these kind of micro-transactions are illegal in Belgium, I had no choice but to build it through grinding. And it's really feasible to have a team that's fun enough to play within a week and a competitive one in a month. Konami throws some free black ball players at you at regular intervals.

During lockdown that's not that long as it might seem

Prederick wrote:

That and I really would like the AI to react better to the team they're up against.

I wonder if that's somehow precluded by the way they've chosen to model "familiarity with instructions/play style." That thing where you use a particular setup the better the players get at it and significantly swapping styles on a per game basis probably messes with that.

Prederick wrote:

So here's a surprise:

Konami's PES Is Just Gonna Take The Year Off

Yeah, a lot of people are upset that they're paying for a roster update + MyClub reset. Then again, EA charges full price since 2016 for exactly the same.

In more exciting news, PES 2022 will be using the Unreal Engine.

It looks amazing, and theoretically they have enough time on their hands now, but I'm still slightly worried how this will impact gameplay in the first Unreal engine iteration.

I've been in a place for years now that the graphics are great, but I really want to hear about AI improvements. I am tired of playing a difficulty level far more than I am playing a team. Playing Barnet and Real Madrid shouldn't feel the same just because I'm on the hardest difficulty level.

The AI does adapt on higher difficulty levels, but mostly to your playing style and not like you mean - with smaller teams parking the bus for instance. You're right though: you're mostly playing a difficulty level. It can be fun to play a few games on Super Star or Legend just because you have to play flawlessly.

Have you tried playing online? It's less horrible than you might expect...

Agreed on graphics in general, PES has been at 90% of FIFA graphics for years and that's just fine. But that video looks so fine...

Edit: PES 2021 roster update will release mid September and cost 30€/$.

I wonder if they'll really take on the modders now, because if it's just a roster & kit update, there are plenty of option files that'll likely do the same thing, for less.

You're right though: you're mostly playing a difficulty level. It can be fun to play a few games on Super Star or Legend just because you have to play flawlessly.

It's just infuriating because the biggest difference I see is in defending. I can win, but it gets annoying to see your team constantly committing fouls (which, fine!) whereas the AI literally has to be specifically baited into committing one, otherwise, it never will and will always make perfectly timed tackles, no matter how awful the player is at defense.

(And it has to be an insanely obvious one too because the ref will call you for any strong challenge, whereas the AI will occasionally clear you out without coming close to the ball and not get called at all)

I wonder if they'll really take on the modders now, because if it's just a roster & kit update, there are plenty of option files that'll likely do the same thing, for less.

I don't know the split in PES sales between PS4/Xbox/PC, but on Xbox you can't install option files and on the PS4 they only work in single player. As soon as another player logs in locally, the option files are disabled. I don't think they'll deem it worthwhile, considering the huge PR backlash Konami would suffer.

I can win, but it gets annoying to see your team constantly committing fouls (which, fine!) whereas the AI literally has to be specifically baited into committing one, otherwise, it never will and will always make perfectly timed tackles, no matter how awful the player is at defense.

No argument there. I got maybe 2 or 3 penalties against AI in all the games I played, and ALL AI fouls are when you turn away to dribble after the AI has already committed to a tackle. From what I gather, the community has been howling for a return to the demo gameplay with refereeing fixed, to no avail.

I wonder about the modders because of the ManU lawsuit as well.

And yeah, the refereeing is..... ugh. The AI could also use a little work in attack, because it has a tendency to only take the highest percentage shots, and not the occasional wayward 25-yard hope-and-prayer.

Prederick wrote:

I wonder about the modders because of the ManU lawsuit as well.

Isn't that just an FM thing though, to do with the fact that FM doesn't have a licence for the Prem and yet there are patches out within days of launch to put the badges etc in. I thought that PES actually had a licence for MU, because there's a club edition for them?

Ah, you're right, I got them mixed up. ManU is suing FM, not PES.

FIFA 20 is 80% off on the PS store atm, if you're curious.

I buckled and decided to give it a shot today, after several more PES games began to work my last nerve. I felt like it was just too crushingly obvious that I wasn't playing a team, I was playing a difficulty level when I watched a gassed defender with like 70 speed completely outrun a fresh-off-the-bench Aboubakar Kamara (87 speed).

Prederick wrote:

FIFA 20 is 80% off on the PS store atm, if you're curious.

I buckled and decided to give it a shot today, after several more PES games began to work my last nerve. I felt like it was just too crushingly obvious that I wasn't playing a team, I was playing a difficulty level when I watched a gassed defender with like 70 speed completely outrun a fresh-off-the-bench Aboubakar Kamara (87 speed).

If we were in a similar timezone and on the same platform, I would challenge you to an online game. Again: it's less horrible than you might expect

I'm still plugging away with FIFA18, eleven seasons in to a Forest Green game.

I'm in the Premier League and now the defending champions and the PL was literally the first thing I'd won - every year I'd gained promotion it had been by finishing second and I'd had zero luck in the two domestic cup competitions.

Our first two seasons in the Premier League we lost back-to-back FA Cup finals, 2-1 against Manchester United and 4-1 (ugh) against Liverpool. We then got dumped out in the third round by Stoke before returning to finally lift the grand old trophy with a 2-0 win over Crystal Palace in extra time.

The second ever game I saw in real life was an FA Cup final, so winning that competition has always meant a bit to me.

We'd qualified for the Champions League a couple times by finishing top four and found the group stages quite easy, but then kept getting dumped out in the quarter finals. PSG ran us over without noticing we were there one year and then the next year we won 1-0 in Munich, then lost 3-0 at home.

The next year we cruised through a group featuring Juventus and Porto, then immediately ran into an Atleti stonewall in the first knockout round for 0-0 and 0-0 before losing on penalties.

EA keep dipping FIFA20 down to $20 on PC and with the fun I'm having on 18 I keep thinking "you need to do better than that."

dejanzie wrote:

If we were in a similar timezone and on the same platform, I would challenge you to an online game. Again: it's less horrible than you might expect ;-)

It is! I like the GKs in PES a lot more, but this also has a quite nice feel to it. We'll see how my experience goes long-term.

Do you have any experience with the FIFER Realism mod? I'm considering grabbing it.

So, a few notes:

PES as noted has a much greater, more entertaining variety of GK animations, and I enjoy their crossing a little bit more.

The breadth of tactical options in FIFA is a flat-out embarrassment for PES though (it really shouldn't be difficult at this point to specify if you want your wingers to hug the line or cut inside) and the presentation is far better. Passing's a bit of a toss-up in my opinion, and I find it very funny that now, suddenly, PES's free kicks are almost too easy while FIFA 20's are almost totally incomprehensible (why do I have to write in Sanskrit with the right stick to put spin on the ball?).

Presentation obviously isn't worth talking about, and as easy as they can just become a total distraction, I really like that FIFA has sliders. Perhaps if PES had some, I could address at least some of my issues.

The attacking AI in FIFA is also much more realistic. PES's AI almost only takes shots with a 90% chance of going in, so far in FIFA, i've seen the AI take some useless, speculative efforts like real teams do.

Oh, and literally anything underneath Professional in FIFA 20 is just...... like, the only reason you wouldn't score 5 is because you get bored or the halves or too short.

Prederick wrote:
dejanzie wrote:

If we were in a similar timezone and on the same platform, I would challenge you to an online game. Again: it's less horrible than you might expect ;-)

It is! I like the GKs in PES a lot more, but this also has a quite nice feel to it. We'll see how my experience goes long-term.

Do you have any experience with the FIFER Realism mod? I'm considering grabbing it.

As I'm playing on PS4 and FIFER seems to be a FIFA mod: no

If you do decide to try it let me know, I might be switching back to FIFA for now, after 5 years of PES. Until the Unreal engine version comes out that is...

dejanzie wrote:

If you do decide to try it let me know, I might be switching back to FIFA for now, after 5 years of PES. Until the Unreal engine version comes out that is...

I did last night, I'll report in later, once I've put in a few games. Allegedly it makes some interesting and cool changes to the vanilla game.

EDIT: Also, whatever idiot decided that a PS4 controller wouldn't work with FIFA 20 can kiss my ass.

Prederick wrote:

I did last night, I'll report in later, once I've put in a few games. Allegedly it makes some interesting and cool changes to the vanilla game.

/grumbles

I feel like a damn slut. I'm cheating on my old girlfriend for this new girl. But she's hot, and she has sliders to make the game even more of what I want it to be.

I'm quite enjoying myself so far. Then again, I also was with PES at first, so YMMV.

Anyone still playing Football Tactics & Glory? No? Just me? Cool. Cool.

Big stats update coming out this fall. Love how involved the devs are in the community.

I love FTAG, but I won all the pots with Ipswich Town, so it's on hiatus until the new DLC drops.

Prederick wrote:

/grumbles

I feel like a damn slut. I'm cheating on my old girlfriend for this new girl. But she's hot, and she has sliders to make the game even more of what I want it to be.

I'm quite enjoying myself so far. Then again, I also was with PES at first, so YMMV.

The good: Sliders are fun!

The bad: I'm currently stuck in a place where, with like one minor slider tweak I either win games 7-0, or the AI has 95% passing completion and I lose 5-4.

Mr Bismarck wrote:

I'm still plugging away with FIFA18, eleven seasons in to a Forest Green game.

EA keep dipping FIFA20 down to $20 on PC and with the fun I'm having on 18 I keep thinking "you need to do better than that."

With 21 coming soon EA dipped FIFA20 to $4.99 which turned out to be the price I was waiting for.

This might be the first time I'm on the current version of FIFA, even if only for one month.