[News] Protests Against Police Violence After Death of George Floyd

Discuss police violence, the victims of police violence (including George Floyd and Breonna Taylor), the Black-led protests against said violence, and related topics.

DSGamer wrote:
cheeze_pavilion wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Lives matter more than property.

If you told me I could end systemic racism by burning my own home down I couldn’t set fire to it fast enough.

I think just about everyone here would if it were that simple and that certain.

That’s the point. If we can all accept some level of property damage as just in exchange for societal gains, surely we can find a way to tolerate some unrest if we believe it may result in change.

Yeah, I thought the was the obvious point. That leads to the point you are making, that if you support BLM, you can't bail out because its inconvenient, because a store might go out of business. Like black owned stores don't go out of business every day due to systemic racism.

What did Tulsa do to turn the tables of power on blacks? They destroyed their economy. And it worked.

Oh, wait, did I just mention that white people have benefitted and profited from rioting and burning down businesses themselves? Oh my...

There are good reasons not to burn down a city. Saving f*cking businesses is not one of them.

DSGamer wrote:
cheeze_pavilion wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Lives matter more than property.

If you told me I could end systemic racism by burning my own home down I couldn’t set fire to it fast enough.

I think just about everyone here would if it were that simple and that certain.

That’s the point. If we can all accept some level of property damage as just in exchange for societal gains, surely we can find a way to tolerate some unrest if we believe it may result in change.

I don't think it makes that point. Usually I would not hesitate to get into why, but other things are on my mind.

EDIT: not helpful but I'm very concerned about this spiralling far beyond property damage.

Wow. This thread has really gone off the rails. I think there’s a difference in the power dynamics of the two examples.

jdzappa wrote:

EDIT: not helpful but I'm very concerned about this spiralling far beyond property damage.

I would normally be here to advocate for you (or against the things being said to you, as would fit the usual insult directed my way) but...not today. I just can't deal with fellow liberals today.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
jdzappa wrote:

EDIT: not helpful but I'm very concerned about this spiralling far beyond property damage.

I would normally be here to advocate for you (or against the things being said to you, as would fit the usual insult directed my way) but...not today. I just can't deal with fellow liberals today.

No we're good man. I've just had a hard education in the military about threat assessment and the true nature of humans when pushed against the wall. When full on sectarian violence breaks out, there are no good guys anymore. Just survivors.

I'll just leave it at this - for every action there's an opposite reaction. Not only is this leading to tit for tat violence, but the alt right/neo Nazis are chomping at the bit for things to spiral out of control. And all of this may very well help Trump get re-elected.

I really hope I'm wrong. All I can do at this point is give money to causes and diverse local businesses and volunteer for Biden's campaign.

On the left/right spectrum in America one side literally believes in exterminating minorities, LGBTQ folks and political enemies. Or forcing them to live somewhere else or accept a lower status in society. The other side has been playing defense for 4 years now.

Specific to race in America one side is trying to maintain a stranglehold on white supremacy. The other side wants equality.

So, you know, #bothsides.

DSGamer wrote:

On the left/right spectrum in America one side literally believes in exterminating minorities, LGBTQ folks and political enemies. Or forcing them to live somewhere else or accept a lower status in society. The other side has been playing defense for 4 years now.

Specific to race in America one side is trying to maintain a stranglehold on white supremacy. The other side wants equality.

So, you know, #bothsides.

OK but once again, in what way did those Black and PoC business owners who lost everything play a role in propping up Trump? Why does it seem like a lot of White protesters are doing the property damage when Black leaders and even families of the slain are asking them to stop? Isn't that White supremacy in action too?

And is there something to be said for the good guys not stooping to the extreme right's level, or does the end justify the means?

jdzappa wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

On the left/right spectrum in America one side literally believes in exterminating minorities, LGBTQ folks and political enemies. Or forcing them to live somewhere else or accept a lower status in society. The other side has been playing defense for 4 years now.

Specific to race in America one side is trying to maintain a stranglehold on white supremacy. The other side wants equality.

So, you know, #bothsides.

OK but once again, in what way did those Black and PoC business owners who lost everything play a role in propping up Trump? Why does it seem like a lot of White protesters are doing the property damage when Black leaders and even families of the slain are asking them to stop? Isn't that White supremacy in action too?

And is there something to be said for the good guys not stooping to the extreme right's level, or does the end justify the means?

If leaders in black communities are saying the property damage is hurting their cause the people damaging property should absolutely listen to them.

If people from outside the cause are the ones destroying property (which is likely in some cases) they should stop because it’s possibly detracts from the cause tactically.

I’m just having trouble with the idea that we should have blanket empathy for people who experience property damage when this is a really complex issue.

Also the main people concerned about property damage as far as I can tell are people unaffected by it. I have a lot of friends on Facebook from rural Idaho and Hawaii who were enraged when the Apple store was looted in Portland.

The extent of the property damage (at least in my personal experience here) is also being grossly exaggerated by the media, conservatives, and even some liberals.
Back in May or June fire was briefly set to the plywood window coverings of a PoC-owned business that had temporary closed due to COVID, protestors quickly rallied to extinguish the flames and in the end the only damage was a couple square feet of slightly charred plywood. The next day the Mayor held a press conference in front of that slightly charred section decrying how Portland was eating itself and that image was all over the news for the entire week. A month or two ago a road flare was tossed into the broken window of the police union headquarters during protests, the flare charred a small section of carpet and filing cabinet and destroyed a small desktop filing rack. Except for a handful of burned papers it was entirely superficial damage but the coverage of it made it seem like the whole building was on fire. There are still occasional references in the national news that we burned the whole building down. There are dozens of examples of this sh*t, it’s why I keep getting contacted on a weekly basis by friends and family from other parts of the country asking if I’m okay when you can’t even tell the protests are even happening in 99% of the city.

ruhk wrote:

There are dozens of examples of this sh*t, it’s why I keep getting contacted on a weekly basis by friends and family from other parts of the country asking if I’m okay when you can’t even tell the protests are even happening in 99% of the city.

My literal view right now from this apocalyptic hellscape.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/MmH28wt_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

Back when the Floyd protests started I took an Uber somewhere, nd the guy was shocked that our neighborhood was seemingly unaffected by anything.

He lives in rural MO, and expected a hellscape. We live about 6 miles from downtown. But he also told me about Antifa coming to Cuba, MO in busses. The RW know how to get their messages out.

Also, I got a ride to Illinois. He was scared because he heard Illinois was bad. He almost made me get out. I convinced him that Chicago is over 4 hours away.

When I got a ride back home, I got another rural guy. This guy was afraid to cross the river into St. Louis, because it is so bad. This all took place around 6-7pm. Nothing was going on.

Jayhawker wrote:

The RW know how to get their messages out.

The RW has a lot of gullible dumbf*cks.

OG_slinger wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:

The RW know how to get their messages out.

The RW has a lot of gullible dumbf*cks.

You know, I think the bulk know if they just roll with the spin, they get to win. I don't think they are gullible. I think they just don't mind reading from a script to own the libs.

To be clear, I am not saying that rioting is good. I too would much prefer a society where it is neither tolerated nor necessary, but we don't live in that society. We live in one where we have systematically removed all means of legitimate and effective protest for social justice. It is a world with fenced off "free speech zones" and police infiltration of peaceful protests. Of white supremacist instigators and of billion dollar budgets to reframe kneeling for social justice as "disrespecting veterans". It is a society that invites rage. And like I said above, white people understand rage. Gods knows they do it enough. They just don't see black people as worthy of it, which is why they ALWAYS reframe it as a rioting problem.

If you want a "middle ground", find it someplace before it gets to the burning. That is where we should have listened.

I can't say it as well as Kimberly though. Watch to the end. Really.

DSGamer wrote:

Also the main people concerned about property damage as far as I can tell are people unaffected by it. I have a lot of friends on Facebook from rural Idaho and Hawaii who were enraged when the Apple store was looted in Portland.

I think you mean the voices being propped up by media, etc. Surely there will always be more folks not affected by rioting and discussing it, whining, etc, than there are actual folks affected by it on the streets with damaged property.

I can't help but think you're equating jd with the folks you're disparaging. I think it's unfair to characterize him that way.

That said, "property damage" is a favorite harping point for the right wing and their media. I don't think now is the time to make that argument because...

Paleocon wrote:
garion333 wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Also the main people concerned about property damage as far as I can tell are people unaffected by it. I have a lot of friends on Facebook from rural Idaho and Hawaii who were enraged when the Apple store was looted in Portland.

I think you mean the voices being propped up by media, etc. Surely there will always be more folks not affected by rioting and discussing it, whining, etc, than there are actual folks affected by it on the streets with damaged property.

I can't help but think you're equating jd with the folks you're disparaging. I think it's unfair to characterize him that way.

That said, "property damage" is a favorite harping point for the right wing and their media. I don't think now is the time to make that argument because...

Paleocon wrote:

First, that’s a powerful video. Thank you for sharing.

Secondly, my own family and several friends back home have been greatly affected by the looting in Seattle and Louisville prospectively. Those friends are Black and Latino btw. I understand and agree with the message of “don’t focus on the looting.” I’m just struggling with the absolute nonchalance and even glee some liberals have displayed as things have gotten more and more violent. I mean, the Patriot Prayer guy was most likely an a-hole, but I’m shocked to see hundreds of protesters in Portland cheering for his death.

But then again, maybe mass murder is exactly what we need for change. I’m saying that in absolute sincerity.

jdzappa wrote:
garion333 wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Also the main people concerned about property damage as far as I can tell are people unaffected by it. I have a lot of friends on Facebook from rural Idaho and Hawaii who were enraged when the Apple store was looted in Portland.

I think you mean the voices being propped up by media, etc. Surely there will always be more folks not affected by rioting and discussing it, whining, etc, than there are actual folks affected by it on the streets with damaged property.

I can't help but think you're equating jd with the folks you're disparaging. I think it's unfair to characterize him that way.

That said, "property damage" is a favorite harping point for the right wing and their media. I don't think now is the time to make that argument because...

Paleocon wrote:

First, that’s a powerful video. Thank you for sharing.

Secondly, my own family and several friends back home have been greatly affected by the looting in Seattle and Louisville prospectively. Those friends are Black and Latino btw. I understand and agree with the message of “don’t focus on the looting.” I’m just struggling with the absolute nonchalance and even glee some liberals have displayed as things have gotten more and more violent. I mean, the Patriot Prayer guy was most likely an a-hole, but I’m shocked to see hundreds of protesters in Portland cheering for his death.

But then again, maybe mass murder is exactly what we need for change. I’m saying that in absolute sincerity.

I know there are bound to be exceptions anywhere you have large groups of people, but I am not seeing glee. I am seeing rage. More to the point, I am seeing desperation and frustration with increasing impotence. I am seeing wrath and anger over the rampant denialism. They aren't saying "Yay, the Target burned down". They are saying "You won't listen to anything else, so why don't we try this sh*t".

And yes, rage is a blunt object, but we don't have any scalpels.

I've seen that video too. They said "I'm not sad a fascist died tonight" and I can believe folks were cheering. It's easy to assume it was deserved, etc. when you're mad as hell and folks from outside the city keep coming in.

Even then, I have yet to find the full video instead of merely a clip. Another clip has the same woman talking about how the guy who died was "a Nazi."

So, clearly, the crowd was being worked into cheering. It's not as if everyone is going around murdering folks just because of their political views, etc. Not large amounts of folks, at least...

This is how close St. Louis was from being Portland, and we are probably still on our way.

Suspect in shooting death of St. Louis officer recently skipped court in Florida assault case

When This went down two days ago, and the tension was insane. They were not releasing any details. But a guy shot two officers, one of which died yesterday. That's all we knew, and the #blueLiveMatter contingent was gearing up.

Parson has been trying to find a way to invite feds in, because he wants to be one of the big boys. So far, he has compromised on a bill, so that now only 14-year-olds can be tried as adults, as he was going to 12. He tried to have an bill that allowed the state to take over homicide cases in any city. Then he tried to get a bill passed that allowed him to remove and replace any circuit attorney he has arbitrarily decided is doing a bad job.

Turns out the cop was this guy.

IMAGE(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/24/324d422f-e9b1-5faa-ab26-4a51c2dc209d/5f4c85786476b.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C1500)

And the shooter was this guy:

IMAGE(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/stltoday.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/4/20/420d4209-4a7f-537b-8831-82a0df0aa931/5f4d2b2b06962.image.png)

Turns out, blue lives don't actually matter that much. The sudden explosion of support just kind of whimpered out quietly.

If it had been the other way around, I am positive St. Louis would have been in a bad place. The cops are already amped up from years of hating BLM here. It's raw, and they will explode.

garion333 wrote:

I've seen that video too. They said "I'm not sad a fascist died tonight" and I can believe folks were cheering. It's easy to assume it was deserved, etc. when you're mad as hell and folks from outside the city keep coming in.

Even then, I have yet to find the full video instead of merely a clip. Another clip has the same woman talking about how the guy who died was "a Nazi."

So, clearly, the crowd was being worked into cheering. It's not as if everyone is going around murdering folks just because of their political views, etc. Not large amounts of folks, at least...

There’s also a lot of context missing that’s not going to displayed in a short clip and definitely won’t be explained by those passing it around. The victim was quickly identified as being a member of a hate group that has spent years coming to Portland to provoke and assault people, often just driving around and ganging up on random pedestrians that didn’t fit their description of “normal.” The people had also just spent the last five hours being assaulted by hundreds of armed people that had police escort.

farley3k wrote:
thrawn82 wrote:

but.. like... not until after that sun times article got worldwide coverage about how they had the good Samaritan they shot and paralyzed handcuffed to a bed... so it doesn't really count?

You are right, but heck yes it counts.

I can't think of any injustice that has been overcome (or at least reduced) that hasn't been spurned by the press. It was article in the press about slavery that swayed northern states opinions, it was the press that moved the nation to revolution against England.

Just because those things were helped by the press doesn't mean we don't count them. To me it means we acknowledge the value and necessity of the press.

Way late to this response but: I meant it doesn't count as far as giving the police depart kudos and back pats for what a good job they are doing (which was the tone I read from the announcement the police made about it), not that it isn't something that should have been done or that it doesn't count for the guy and his family.

Jesus, he is SUCH an asshole.

Trump's Kenosha visit.

"Today, I'm there for law enforcement and for the National Guard, because they've done a great job in Kenosha. They have put out the flame immediately. As soon as they came in, boom, the flame was gone. Now maybe it will start up again, in which case they will put it out very powerfully," he said.
People are tired of watching the highly political @NBA. Basketball ratings are WAY down, and they won’t be coming back. I hope football and baseball are watching and learning because the same thing will be happening to them. Stand tall for our Country and our Flag!!!

He manages to work TV ratings into everything. It does really show what he cares about.

I didn't know if this belonged in the election 2020, Administration, or this thread...

Gram [the current owner for the past 8 years] said he got a call Monday from the White House asking if he’d join the president on a tour that would showcase his leveled camera shop business, but Gram immediately refused.

“I think everything he does turns into a circus and I just didn’t want to be involved in it,” Gram said.

To Gram’s surprise, he watched on TV as the president showed up with the store’s former owner and President Trump made it seem like the store was still his.

“John Rode III, owner of Rode’s Camera Shop,” President Trump said as he introduced Rode during a round table conversation on Tuesday.

Prosecutors' Plea Deal Required Drug Suspect To Name Breonna Taylor A 'Co-Defendant'

The deal was one of several offered by prosecutors in the months after Taylor's death. All of which carried a penalty of 10 years and none of which were ultimately accepted.

Drug dealer has more integrity than Louisville district attorney or Kentucky attorney general, would be an accurate headline for that.