[News] Protests Against Police Violence After Death of George Floyd

Discuss police violence, the victims of police violence (including George Floyd and Breonna Taylor), the Black-led protests against said violence, and related topics.

Jayhawker wrote:

The main thing I learned from Maddow's Bag Man podcast was how exactly the same Agnew is to Trump.

I give the edge to Spiro Agnew because his name is an anagram for "grow a penis".

To anyone who thinks we don't have a police problem in America, I invite them to try this very simple test.

Pick three police departments in your area. One in a well off neighborhood where property taxes are high. One in a middling neighborhood where residents are split between renters and owners. And one in a poor neighborhood where home ownership is rare.

Now, without any explanation or context, go into the station and ask the attending officer for a citizen complaint form. Do not make up any stories. Do not offer any explanations. If asked, simply say that you want the form.

The fact that you are loath to do this for fear of retribution should tell you that policing in America is fundamentally broken.

Moreover, the fact that you had never considered this a problem demonstrates that you are so privileged that you could not imagine a situation in which you would need to complain about police misconduct.

And for extra credit, you know that one black friend you've got? You know the one. The one that you hold up as an example that systemic racism doesn't exist? Yeah. Ask him to come with you. All he has to do is walk into the lobby with you and stand their being silent. Ask him if he'll do that with you. See what he says.

Paleocon wrote:

And for extra credit, you know that one black friend you've got? You know the one. The one that you hold up as an example that systemic racism doesn't exist? Yeah. Ask him to come with you. All he has to do is walk into the lobby with you and stand their being silent. Ask him if he'll do that with you. See what he says.

This, I hope, is rhetoric. Please don't ask any person of color to actually do this, or just to see what they say if you do? Unless you don't care about being untrustworthy? This is reckless.

Amoebic wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

And for extra credit, you know that one black friend you've got? You know the one. The one that you hold up as an example that systemic racism doesn't exist? Yeah. Ask him to come with you. All he has to do is walk into the lobby with you and stand their being silent. Ask him if he'll do that with you. See what he says.

This, I hope, is rhetoric. Please don't ask any person of color to actually do this, or just to see what they say if you do? Unless you don't care about being untrustworthy? This is reckless.

People with that "one black friend" are already untrustworthy. Best they be confronted with that reality.

Amoebic wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

And for extra credit, you know that one black friend you've got? You know the one. The one that you hold up as an example that systemic racism doesn't exist? Yeah. Ask him to come with you. All he has to do is walk into the lobby with you and stand their being silent. Ask him if he'll do that with you. See what he says.

This, I hope, is rhetoric. Please don't ask any person of color to actually do this, or just to see what they say if you do? Unless you don't care about being untrustworthy? This is reckless.

This shouldn't be reckless! This is exactly the problem with police in America.

Atras wrote:
Amoebic wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

And for extra credit, you know that one black friend you've got? You know the one. The one that you hold up as an example that systemic racism doesn't exist? Yeah. Ask him to come with you. All he has to do is walk into the lobby with you and stand their being silent. Ask him if he'll do that with you. See what he says.

This, I hope, is rhetoric. Please don't ask any person of color to actually do this, or just to see what they say if you do? Unless you don't care about being untrustworthy? This is reckless.

This shouldn't be reckless! This is exactly the problem with police in America.

The problem is that we allow and expect departments to act like fully licensed criminal cartels.

Gremlin wrote:

Chicago Sun-Times: Jacob Blake handcuffed to hospital bed, father says: “He can’t go anywhere,” the 29-year-old’s dad said, speaking of his son’s paralysis. “Why do you have him cuffed to the bed?”

When Jacob Blake’s father visited him in the hospital Wednesday, he said his son was handcuffed to the bed.

“I hate it that he was laying in that bed with the handcuff onto the bed,” his father, also named Jacob Blake, said Thursday.

“He can’t go anywhere. Why do you have him cuffed to the bed?”

Blake had another question about his son, as well: What was he arrested for?

The younger Blake, 29, was shot multiple times by police Sunday in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and is paralyzed from the waist down. The younger Jacob Blake told his father he thought he could feel pain in his legs, but his father isn’t sure if the pain is actually coming from his legs.

The Kenosha Police Department, Kenosha County District Attorney’s Office and Wisconsin Department of Justice all did not immediately respond to requests for information on his arrest or charges.

Thankfully it's being reported that Blake's attorney told a WISN reporter that the police have vacated the felony arrest warrant against him, removed his handcuffs, and left his hospital room.

OG_slinger wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Chicago Sun-Times: Jacob Blake handcuffed to hospital bed, father says: “He can’t go anywhere,” the 29-year-old’s dad said, speaking of his son’s paralysis. “Why do you have him cuffed to the bed?”

When Jacob Blake’s father visited him in the hospital Wednesday, he said his son was handcuffed to the bed.

“I hate it that he was laying in that bed with the handcuff onto the bed,” his father, also named Jacob Blake, said Thursday.

“He can’t go anywhere. Why do you have him cuffed to the bed?”

Blake had another question about his son, as well: What was he arrested for?

The younger Blake, 29, was shot multiple times by police Sunday in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and is paralyzed from the waist down. The younger Jacob Blake told his father he thought he could feel pain in his legs, but his father isn’t sure if the pain is actually coming from his legs.

The Kenosha Police Department, Kenosha County District Attorney’s Office and Wisconsin Department of Justice all did not immediately respond to requests for information on his arrest or charges.

Thankfully it's being reported that Blake's attorney told a WISN reporter that the police have vacated the felony arrest warrant against him, removed his handcuffs, and left his hospital room.

but.. like... not until after that sun times article got worldwide coverage about how they had the good Samaritan they shot and paralyzed handcuffed to a bed... so it doesn't really count?

thrawn82 wrote:

but.. like... not until after that sun times article got worldwide coverage about how they had the good Samaritan they shot and paralyzed handcuffed to a bed... so it doesn't really count?

I'm reasonably sure it counts for Blake and his family that they don't have to suffer the presence of police in his hospital room nor him the indignity of being handcuffed to a bed he can't get out of because the police shot him seven times in the back. It's the 2020 equivalent of small mercies, unfortunately.

thrawn82 wrote:

but.. like... not until after that sun times article got worldwide coverage about how they had the good Samaritan they shot and paralyzed handcuffed to a bed... so it doesn't really count?

You are right, but heck yes it counts.

I can't think of any injustice that has been overcome (or at least reduced) that hasn't been spurned by the press. It was article in the press about slavery that swayed northern states opinions, it was the press that moved the nation to revolution against England.

Just because those things were helped by the press doesn't mean we don't count them. To me it means we acknowledge the value and necessity of the press.

So when is the press going to stop covering the fascist in the White House like everything is normal?

Oh right they are counting on election ratings and ad money more than truth.

The updated story on the nightly news just says that Blake was un-handcuffed because someone posted bond for him. So not sure the news pressure even did anything?

thrawn82 wrote:
OG_slinger wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

Chicago Sun-Times: Jacob Blake handcuffed to hospital bed, father says: “He can’t go anywhere,” the 29-year-old’s dad said, speaking of his son’s paralysis. “Why do you have him cuffed to the bed?”

When Jacob Blake’s father visited him in the hospital Wednesday, he said his son was handcuffed to the bed.

“I hate it that he was laying in that bed with the handcuff onto the bed,” his father, also named Jacob Blake, said Thursday.

“He can’t go anywhere. Why do you have him cuffed to the bed?”

Blake had another question about his son, as well: What was he arrested for?

The younger Blake, 29, was shot multiple times by police Sunday in Kenosha, Wisconsin, and is paralyzed from the waist down. The younger Jacob Blake told his father he thought he could feel pain in his legs, but his father isn’t sure if the pain is actually coming from his legs.

The Kenosha Police Department, Kenosha County District Attorney’s Office and Wisconsin Department of Justice all did not immediately respond to requests for information on his arrest or charges.

Thankfully it's being reported that Blake's attorney told a WISN reporter that the police have vacated the felony arrest warrant against him, removed his handcuffs, and left his hospital room.

but.. like... not until after that sun times article got worldwide coverage about how they had the good Samaritan they shot and paralyzed handcuffed to a bed... so it doesn't really count?

I don't know why anyone would be surprised by this. They handcuffed Charles Kinsey after they supposedly "shot him by accident while trying to save his life" because he was black.

Stele wrote:

So when is the press going to stop covering the fascist in the White House like everything is normal?

Oh right they are counting on election ratings and ad money more than truth.

My wife and I were watching a TV show on CBS news the other day and there was an ad like, "We'll have all the coverage as the Republican Party makes their case" as if it was a normal election. It strikes me how weird it all is.

Trump could be in his 3rd term literally rounding up political prisoners and they would be covering the "horse race".

Big MAGA caravan today in Portland. Hundreds of lifted trucks with mostly out of state plates met at a mall in the suburbs, then drove towards downtown, randomly macing and shooting paintballs at people. They caused at least one traffic accident and attempted to run over protestors on several occasions.
An hour ago someone was shot and killed downtown near where the caravan ended but it’s too early to say whether it is or isn’t related, despite multiple news outlets already making declarations both ways.

EDIT: f**********k. Multiple local journalists have confirmed that the victim was wearing a hat with the logo of our local white supremacist hate group, Patriot Prayer. This is going to be bad.

How long until the victim is described as a 'martyr' in a White House press briefing?

One of the movies that keeps coming up on suggested viewing on one of my streaming services is a documentary about an auto shop owner who got screwed over by the city council where he lived and, after several futile attempts at justice, decided to armor a bulldozer and literally destroy a good portion of the business district on a one man rampage. I remember when this happened. I also remember his being white and mostly conservative white folks cheering him on.

No one killed his family. No one shot his father. No one took the lives of anyone he loved.

White folks understand what is going on in Kenosha. They just don't think black folks are entitled to rage.

When they say "buht property damage", what they're really saying is "shut up [n word]"

If I recall correctly the Killdozer was framed as a victim but was really just a greedy a$$h#l* who pushed everyone around him for a better and better deal until they said no. Then when no one would pay him for his bs he went on a rampage.

But yeah he is a good example because he was made into a hero for smashing up property. Black people burn a police station that is responsible for murder and everyone is so worried about the property suddenly.

Only a "pro-life" party would think murdering black people is an ok response to property damage, but not the other way around.

@Patrick_Wyman wrote:

This feels very much like a “frog doesn’t realize how hot the boiling water is getting” situation

/nods vigorously

Build the wall... between Vancouver and Portland

Paleocon wrote:

One of the movies that keeps coming up on suggested viewing on one of my streaming services is a documentary about an auto shop owner who got screwed over by the city council where he lived and, after several futile attempts at justice, decided to armor a bulldozer and literally destroy a good portion of the business district on a one man rampage. I remember when this happened. I also remember his being white and mostly conservative white folks cheering him on.

No one killed his family. No one shot his father. No one took the lives of anyone he loved.

White folks understand what is going on in Kenosha. They just don't think black folks are entitled to rage.

When they say "buht property damage", what they're really saying is "shut up [n word]"

Surely there's a middle ground where we can have compassion for business owners who have lost everything and still support protecting Black lives? I think in another thread there's mention about insurance not covering the rioting, so yes small business really are severely hurt by all this.

Lives matter more than property.

If you told me I could end systemic racism by burning my own home down I couldn’t set fire to it fast enough.

DSGamer wrote:

Lives matter more than property.

If you told me I could end systemic racism by burning my own home down I couldn’t set fire to it fast enough.

I think just about everyone here would if it were that simple and that certain.

jdzappa wrote:

Surely there's a middle ground where we can have compassion for business owners who have lost everything and still support protecting Black lives? I think in another thread there's mention about insurance not covering the rioting, so yes small business really are severely hurt by all this.

I'd like to think so, but based on historical precedent consequences ranging from severe hurt to death appear to be what real social progress demands. The middle ground is where the ones who are actually in control seem comfortable enough doing nothing.

jdzappa wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

One of the movies that keeps coming up on suggested viewing on one of my streaming services is a documentary about an auto shop owner who got screwed over by the city council where he lived and, after several futile attempts at justice, decided to armor a bulldozer and literally destroy a good portion of the business district on a one man rampage. I remember when this happened. I also remember his being white and mostly conservative white folks cheering him on.

No one killed his family. No one shot his father. No one took the lives of anyone he loved.

White folks understand what is going on in Kenosha. They just don't think black folks are entitled to rage.

When they say "buht property damage", what they're really saying is "shut up [n word]"

Surely there's a middle ground where we can have compassion for business owners who have lost everything and still support protecting Black lives? I think in another thread there's mention about insurance not covering the rioting, so yes small business really are severely hurt by all this.

I could care less. Small businesses go out of business all the time. How many of those small businesses weren't going to make it anyway? Let them go. We need to rethink how we rebuild our economy anyway.

That may be heartless, but they are the ones wanting to open up in spite of the old folks that were "going to die anyway." So, seriously, f*ck them.

cheeze_pavilion wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

Lives matter more than property.

If you told me I could end systemic racism by burning my own home down I couldn’t set fire to it fast enough.

I think just about everyone here would if it were that simple and that certain.

That’s the point. If we can all accept some level of property damage as just in exchange for societal gains, surely we can find a way to tolerate some unrest if we believe it may result in change.

Jayhawker wrote:
jdzappa wrote:
Paleocon wrote:

One of the movies that keeps coming up on suggested viewing on one of my streaming services is a documentary about an auto shop owner who got screwed over by the city council where he lived and, after several futile attempts at justice, decided to armor a bulldozer and literally destroy a good portion of the business district on a one man rampage. I remember when this happened. I also remember his being white and mostly conservative white folks cheering him on.

No one killed his family. No one shot his father. No one took the lives of anyone he loved.

White folks understand what is going on in Kenosha. They just don't think black folks are entitled to rage.

When they say "buht property damage", what they're really saying is "shut up [n word]"

Surely there's a middle ground where we can have compassion for business owners who have lost everything and still support protecting Black lives? I think in another thread there's mention about insurance not covering the rioting, so yes small business really are severely hurt by all this.

I could care less. Small businesses go out of business all the time. How many of those small businesses weren't going to make it anyway? Let them go. We need to rethink how we rebuild our economy anyway.

That may be heartless, but they are the ones wanting to open up in spite of the old folks that were "going to die anyway." So, seriously, f*ck them.

Wow you're jumping to conclusions. So I'll counter with a few more questions:

1. How much of the rioting is strategic direct action versus just petty criminals or misguided WHITE anarchists taking advantage of the situation?
2. Is the looting/burning helping the cause or harming it?
3. If rioting doesn't see results, what's the next step? We already had a Trump supporter shot dead yesterday. Is it now open season on all conservatives? How about anyone who's not Black?