Bloodborne Catch-all

So my buddy and I have reached the Nightmare of Mensis or whatever it's called.

Places with "Nightmare" in the name are basically places I hate.

Spoiler:

Quite frankly, respawning enemies was also not a favorite of mine. I have a feeling that this will be a game I start new playthroughs of frequently in the future but rarely see the credits roll on.

FWIW

Spoiler:

Usually if enemies are respawning, with a red tinge to them, there is a master enemy that you can quickly find and kill that stops them from doing so anymore.

Spoiler:

Yeah, we killed the many ladies with bells in order to stop some of the respawns as we went along.

What Nightmare Mensis and Unseen Yahargleblargle have taught me is that the closer to the end of Bloodborne you get the more they want to take you out of your comfort zone. My tendency is to slowly walk forward everywhere and check my corners, drawing enemies little by little before progressing forward. Both of those zones require you to just run at certain points, and I had to do it all again to get the Old Cathedral key.

ccesarano wrote:
Spoiler:

Yeah, we killed the many ladies with bells in order to stop some of the respawns as we went along.

What Nightmare Mensis and Unseen Yahargleblargle have taught me is that the closer to the end of Bloodborne you get the more they want to take you out of your comfort zone. My tendency is to slowly walk forward everywhere and check my corners, drawing enemies little by little before progressing forward. Both of those zones require you to just run at certain points, and I had to do it all again to get the Old Cathedral key.

Yep. Unseen Yahrgleblargle was a big nope point for me where I put the game down for a while. That is SO far out of my Dark Souls comfort zone, much like you described.

I dunno if anyone has been curious of my continued journey through Bloodborne, but my buddy and I continue to progress. There are some moments I wonder how I could have completed it solo. I started a new character and managed to complete the Cleric Beast on my own on my first attempt, thanks in part to help provided by VaatiVidya. It's a game I certainly enjoy playing, but I do wonder if co-op is one of the reasons I've been able to enjoy it so much.

I ended up getting Dark Souls Remastered on sale since it was cheap. I'll probably write more about that when I get to the monthly pile thread check-in, but I can confirm that, while I did better this time around than my first effort, I still believe Bloodborne just does a lot more that I enjoy, and it's not just in regards to combat speed. The parry in Dark Souls is as inconsistent as Sekiro and, if we're honest, with Bloodborne. However, by being ranged and tied to a more immediate gun weapon, Bloodborne feels far more consistent than the slower and close-quarters timing of Dark Souls. It's stuff like this that keeps the game more enjoyable for me.

My friend and I completed the Nightmare Mensis last night on stream, and are ready to tackle the final stretch on the stream this Thursday I imagine. However, wanting to play more, I finally dove into some of the Chalice Rituals and purchased the Old Hunters DLC, which we played tonight.

The Chalice Rituals aren't too bad, though I'm clearly over-leveled for the starting levels I'm working on. Most enemies go down in 1-2 hits. The bosses, however, can still hit surprisingly hard. The real issue is that they're clearly modularly designed, and it seems potentially procedurally generated if you create them a certain way. Though the dungeons haven't been too awful, they're clearly not as finely crafted content as the rest of the game. A nice way to get more content out of the game, but not the best that's on offer.

The Old Hunters, on the other hand, has proven interesting. We defeated the first boss, and may play more tomorrow before the stream. However, I haven't had the framerate drop so much on me while playing the game.

If I'm honest, I don't want a Bloodborne remaster. Crank that framerate on PS5 up and you'll have all you need. The game still looks good. I'd rather a Bloodborne 2. Every time I feel like I might be hitting the limit of what I can deal with in this game, I find myself getting through and getting better, and it feels like a more natural progression than anything else.

This may be the best exclusive PS4 has, at the very least in regards to first-party titles. So, yeah, I may not yet be a From fanboy, but I'm certainly a Bloodborne fan through and through.

Yeah, I personally don’t think the rumors of a remastered Bloodborne make a lot of sense. As opposed to Demon’s Souls which will be two generations back and has had its multiplayer shut off.

I do wonder if From is now a bit hesitant about sequels after Dark Souls II. It’s also interesting that everything since has been at least co-directed by Miyazaki. They’ve also backed away from the more aggressive release schedule they were on for a bit there. I’m doing a lot of assuming but things seem to have changed.

I don't really want a remaster, just a PC port, so I can sell or trade in my PS4.

Chris, I assume you know this, but like Dark Souls 1 when you beat the last boss of Bloodborne, you're done. You need to play the DLC first if you want to. That said, Chalice Dungeon progress is independent of main game progress, so you can finish the story whenever you like without messing up Chalice progress.

I still need to beat one Chalice boss to platinum this thing.

We're working on the DLC now, and I'm hoping to beat it first. I suppose we'll see then. It's funny because the DLC feels like end-game "if you've already beaten it" content. Still, thanks for letting me know.

steinkrug wrote:

I do wonder if From is now a bit hesitant about sequels after Dark Souls II. It’s also interesting that everything since has been at least co-directed by Miyazaki. They’ve also backed away from the more aggressive release schedule they were on for a bit there. I’m doing a lot of assuming but things seem to have changed.

Sequels or remasters of Demon's Souls and Bloodborne wouldn't be up to From. Those properties are owned by Sony; notably, From isn't working on the remake of Demon's Souls.

I wouldn't be surprised by some kind of PS5 touch-up for Bloodborne. A lot of that depends on how backward compatibility actually works. It wasn't a big seller, though, so I assume it's less of a priority for Sony.

ccesarano wrote:

We're working on the DLC now, and I'm hoping to beat it first. I suppose we'll see then. It's funny because the DLC feels like end-game "if you've already beaten it" content. Still, thanks for letting me know.

The DLC's recommended minimum level is 65 on your first pass. Depending on how much you're leveling, and especially if you're waiting till you're level 100 to tackle it, though, that could easily mean you're in the last handful of areas in the base game (general consensus online seems to be that the recommended level for the last area of the base game is around 80).
That said, whenever I play though the game, I always try to hit the DLC early. My absolute favorite weapon in the game (for a dex build) is in the DLC.

We're definitely 105+ in terms of levels. We're towards the end of The Old Hunters now, and I think missed out on a potential secret.

Spoiler:

So the one lady wants brain fluid. We found the two meat-sacks that you can get the brain fluid from, but not the third. There was one fellow planting and nurturing a sunflower that I just didn't have the heart to kill, and we forgot where to find him in my buddy's world. When we tried to reset the stairs in order to go get to him (it seemed like we missed a whole half of a floor that was now inaccessible), the game would not allow us. I'm guessing, for now, he has the third brain, but I can probably look it up and find out for sure.

Got the Blackened Eye Pendant or whatever though!

We're taking a break before trying to co-op what might be the DLC's final boss.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
steinkrug wrote:

I do wonder if From is now a bit hesitant about sequels after Dark Souls II. It’s also interesting that everything since has been at least co-directed by Miyazaki. They’ve also backed away from the more aggressive release schedule they were on for a bit there. I’m doing a lot of assuming but things seem to have changed.

Sequels or remasters of Demon's Souls and Bloodborne wouldn't be up to From. Those properties are owned by Sony; notably, From isn't working on the remake of Demon's Souls.

I wouldn't be surprised by some kind of PS5 touch-up for Bloodborne. A lot of that depends on how backward compatibility actually works. It wasn't a big seller, though, so I assume it's less of a priority for Sony.

Right, but a remaster is one thing and a sequel another. While it’s certainly possible that they’d have another company do a sequel, I think they’d be up against immediate negative fan reaction to having a company other than From do it.

It's not a remaster; it's a remake. I do think you're right that the reception would be more negative if Sony had announced a sequel without From's involvement, but the new Demon's Souls isn't an up-rez of the old game. It's a remake from the bottom up with an entirely new code base and everything built fresh. All of the balance and tuning and "feel"—the stuff that everyone praises From for and expects from their games—being done by a different studio without From's involvement. I'm surprised that all the From fans who would be upset about a new studio making Demon's Souls 2 are just totally unconcerned about that.

Have there been any news about Demons Souls beyond the video? One reason people aren't "angry" about it could be that they just dont know it is a remake yet. Based on the video I assumed it was a remaster only (with completely new graphics, but everything else more or less unchanged). A remake makes me a bit more interested (and I was already VERY interested) as that means they might change some of the worse parts of the game.

But of course, if they screw with the gameplay... then the internet will burn down and all that stuff.

I hope they improve on the gameplay while keeping the weight and slowness. The Souls games are pretty damn janky. I think they're adding new areas and bosses too IIRC.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

It's not a remaster; it's a remake. I do think you're right that the reception would be more negative if Sony had announced a sequel without From's involvement, but the new Demon's Souls isn't an up-rez of the old game. It's a remake from the bottom up with an entirely new code base and everything built fresh. All of the balance and tuning and "feel"—the stuff that everyone praises From for and expects from their games—being done by a different studio without From's involvement. I'm surprised that all the From fans who would be upset about a new studio making Demon's Souls 2 are just totally unconcerned about that.

I think there's some safety in knowing that it's a remake of an existing property that essentially launched a new genre. If they change it too dramatically, fans won't go for it. It'll get panned by the Souls-loving reviewers, and people will be hesitant to buy.

I fully expect QoL changes, balancing changes (helloooooo Scraping Spear) and probably some way to make world tendency more understandable and perhaps more interesting. But I would be floored if they significantly changed the combat in any way. I think you can probably validate this assumption by looking at how Bluepoint handled the Shadow of the Colossus remake.

Right, sorry, I used the wrong word and it’s definitely a significant difference. Still, I think Sony can safely hand a remake over to Bluepoint, while it might not be worth the reaction of fans and maybe From if they had someone else do a sequel. That’s all I was trying to say.

ccesarano wrote:
Spoiler:

So the one lady wants brain fluid. We found the two meat-sacks that you can get the brain fluid from, but not the third. There was one fellow planting and nurturing a sunflower that I just didn't have the heart to kill, and we forgot where to find him in my buddy's world. When we tried to reset the stairs in order to go get to him (it seemed like we missed a whole half of a floor that was now inaccessible), the game would not allow us. I'm guessing, for now, he has the third brain, but I can probably look it up and find out for sure.

Got the Blackened Eye Pendant or whatever though!

This one is a tricky one. I'll spoiler it, so you can also figure it out yourself, if you want.

Spoiler:

The last brain fluid comes from her. Kill her, get the brain fluid, reload the area and she'll be back so you can give it to her.

That's messed up.

Whelp, for anyone keeping up with my adventure, I'm fully, completely, 100% in love with the game. There was more to the Old Hunters than I expected, so my buddy and I spent four hours completing that during our previous stream and didn't get to finish the game completely. I condensed that into a twenty-some minute highlights video, focusing on our one "decent" attempt at Laurence, both fights of Lady Maria, and both successful attempts of the Orphan of Kos. Since we're doing it co-op we basically fought each twice for the sake of completion, and at this point everything was as fresh for him as it was for me.

It's funny to say that aspects of the gameplay were starting to "click" for me with a fight as tough as Kos, as hard-hitting and swift as he is. Dodge forward into an attack to close distance. Don't get greedy, wait for guaranteed openings. Even then, watched VaatiVidya's video discussing all the bosses and realized there was so much my buddy and I could have been doing to make it an "easier" fight.

We promised what few friends that follow that we'd finish the game on stream since we only have the final fight(s) left, but I wanted to keep playing more and the Chalice Dungeons just weren't doing it for me. So, went back to my second character that had defeated the Cleric Beast and figured I'd futz around Central Yharnam and see how I did at Gascoigne. Well, I beat him on the first try, and then I just got sucked into things. I tried doing things a bit differently/out of sequence, discovered that you can't do two crucial things without killing the Blood-Starved Beast (I misunderstood how to befriend the Gatling Gun Hunter), and have basically slaughtered the bosses up to my current point in a single attempt. This morning's was the Shadows of Yharnam, though I did attempt to glitch them out first. I did it wrong, and so what you see is my actual first attempt at fighting them, and it went surprisingly well compared to the efforts made by my pal Nolan and I.

I told my friend that this would have actually been a great way to reboot Devil May Cry instead of the Ninja Theory attempt. It feels far more in line with the original game in that franchise, and I largely feel that way since Resident Evil 4 and DMC have that shared history and therefore shared influence to one another. Bloodborne gives me those same feelings as RE4, but with the melee-combat action I've grown to really like.

I think I might try and Platinum this game (though it seems the toughest part of that is going to be getting a specific weapon from the Chalice dungeons).

I dunno if there's anything more worth saying here. I'll be beating it tonight, but I'll probably run through the New Game Plus as well as this fresh character as well. I'm about halfway through the game's content, I feel, with Hypogean Gaol and Nightmare Frontier needing to be completed before I tackle Byrgenwerth.

Spoiler:

I decided on this playthrough to try fighting the imposter of Iosefka just for kicks, and because I already have all necessary cords to get the true ending tonight with my first character.

Digging into the lore has also been fascinating, but that's evidently par for the course. It's also interesting just how much this game actually tells you, but because you don't know the names of anything it's mostly gibberish and leaves you feeling like you have no clue where to go at times.

So, yeah, I'm a full-on Bloodborne fanboy by now. But I promise I won't keep telling people how much like Bloodborne a game is just because it has an attack button, or because you can do a roll dodge just like in Bloodborne, or it has elevators just like in Bloodborne, etc. etc. etc.

ccesarano wrote:

I think I might try and Platinum this game (though it seems the toughest part of that is going to be getting a specific weapon from the Chalice dungeons).

Getting to and through the final boss of the Chalice dungeons is probably the hardest part of the Platinum. Or at least, that was the last thing I did.

Taharka wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

I think I might try and Platinum this game (though it seems the toughest part of that is going to be getting a specific weapon from the Chalice dungeons).

Getting to and through the final boss of the Chalice dungeons is probably the hardest part of the Platinum. Or at least, that was the last thing I did.

Only thing standing in my way. I'm close, though.

Quick pointer - if you like the main game, play NG+ once through. Not only will that help you level more, and make the chalice dungeons easier (because they do not scale with NG+), but it also nets you an extra material that can only otherwise be gotten from a whole lengthy section of the chalice dungeons, which you will quickly discover are quite repetitive. So, IMHO, anything that reduces your time in the chalice dungeons is a win.

ccesarano wrote:

Whelp, for anyone keeping up with my adventure, I'm fully, completely, 100% in love with the game.

I've been keeping up. It's been fun to see you come around on it

ccesarano wrote:

It's funny to say that aspects of the gameplay were starting to "click" for me with a fight as tough as Kos, as hard-hitting and swift as he is. Dodge forward into an attack to close distance. Don't get greedy, wait for guaranteed openings. Even then, watched VaatiVidya's video discussing all the bosses and realized there was so much my buddy and I could have been doing to make it an "easier" fight.

That's not surprising. The toughest fights are nearly always the ones where I notice myself improving the most because they force me to reconsider my approach rather than just dodging a little better than the last time.

It can take a really long time for elements of the combat to actually click, and it is entirely possible to bash your way through most of the game without using many of them. Parrying is a great example of this. It can trivialize many of the toughest fights, but there are loads of people that get through the game without parrying once. I imagine this is even more true if you're playing primarily co-op, as having a second player does make most fights a little less demanding.

Yeah, I was hoping to Google and discover a straight path to the claws and then the final encounter necessary for an achievment. I'm glad they don't scale.

We'll see about how much more I play for the time being. The game's still on the brain, but this morning I tried the Old Hunters, Cainhurst, and Nightmare Frontier and ran into difficulties in each one. Of course, I'm trying to defeat these sections before Rom, which might be the mistake. I did a bit of NG+ yesterday, and it seems like certain things hit surprisingly hard while others don't.

It might be a good time to finally try some other games, but, well... I've felt like that before.

Dyni wrote:

It can take a really long time for elements of the combat to actually click, and it is entirely possible to bash your way through most of the game without using many of them. Parrying is a great example of this. It can trivialize many of the toughest fights, but there are loads of people that get through the game without parrying once. I imagine this is even more true if you're playing primarily co-op, as having a second player does make most fights a little less demanding.

Parrying has become a far more essential tool for my new character, but largely because she has the Hunter's Pistol. While the Blunderbuss is evidently more useful for certain enemy types, I find the Pistol better all around due to its speed. I've been far happier with that, though unfortunately I've also found the Saw Spear to be less ideal than I liked. I'm curious if I want to try and swap back to the Saw Cleaver. I ended up upgrading the Tonitrus for an alternate weapon, and it seems it has a weird hit box. I died to an enemy with an invisible sliver of health, and I can only imagine it's because I swung and it... clipped through? I dunno. From jank.

The funny thing about it all is that the things I love about the game feel different from what people shout loudest about it. One thing I "prefer" in Darksiders 3 is that you don't respawn enemies unless you die. Quick travel and vulgrim (the checkpoints and shop) don't respawn foes. At the same time, being far more Metroid in its design, it makes sense since you'll be encouraged to backtrack a lot more in that game with new powers for new collectibles. I feel like you can clear an area in Bloodborne and never have to think about ever returning there again, so you don't really need to worry about that in most cases. Plus, in Bloodborne, enemies lose aggro more easily so you can run straight through a zone. At the same time, returning to the Hunter's Dream also restores health regardless of whether you leveled up or not. Darksiders 3 doesn't have anything of the sort, so you can't exploit it like players would no doubt exploit Bloodborne by enduring loading screens just to clear an area.

Like that starting zone of Cainhurst.

So it's a lot of consideration for what the mechanics do in their respective game, I suppose.

...I might play more now, actually. Dag nabbit.

It's fun lurking and watching you play through for the first time, ccesarano. If I ever play my PS4 again, I'll load up the dlc and give it a go. I'm afraid it will be difficult though, after a long hiatus. Ah well. Maybe I can convince Spikeout to tackle it with me even after all this time.

Ok fine, twist my arm why don't ya. After finally beating DSR, DS3, and DS2, I'll give Bloodborne yet another shot to see if it'll stick with me.

Localgod54 wrote:

It's fun lurking and watching you play through for the first time, ccesarano. If I ever play my PS4 again, I'll load up the dlc and give it a go. I'm afraid it will be difficult though, after a long hiatus. Ah well. Maybe I can convince Spikeout to tackle it with me even after all this time.

I'm currently level 85 going through The Old Hunters solo and, honestly, co-op isn't a bad way to approach it. It's definitely some really tough content, and I cannot believe that it is made available once you've defeated Vicar Amelia. I know there are players out there insane enough to be able to tackle it, but the first zone alone just feels absolutely tough compared to earlier areas.

I've learned that Bloodlickers are absolutely, 100% my least favorite enemy in the game, and they're in both Cainhurst and The Old Hunters. Once I got every item in the starting zone of Cainhurst, the castle was a cake walk... even Logarius, though in part thanks to looking up a video or two with advice on taking him out solo. It's been interesting to go back and, say, tackle Amygdala and realize he's also a bit of a push-over so long as you're patient, and even Unseen Yahargul wasn't too bad since I'd been saving my blue elixirs for it. Were it not for The Old Hunters I'd be set to progress through the Nightmare Mensis and my way towards the end game, but I'd like to hear some of Gherman's and the Doll's dialogue first. Maybe I'll just go halfway or something through Mensis in order to gain some levels, though, because Maria? Oof.

Just...oof.

I'm taking a slight break as a result. Don't feel like another Central Yharnam run to refill on blood vials, and while I could do some Chalice Rituals to level up a bit, they're hardly the most engaging content of the game.

Alright, I started as a Military Veteran, and snagged the Hunter Axe and the Pistol. I think with all of my previous attempts to get into Bloodborne, I started with the Saw Cleaver. I think I like the Hunter Axe (in polearm form) much better. I still haven't figured out how to use the Pistol effectively; for the most part, I'm playing it as a dodge-rolling Souls character with a halberd.

That said, I got to the Cleric Beast and defeated it on my first attempt. Pretty pleased with myself for that. The first time I tried BB I had to summon help for that fight, and it was basically the summon that defeated it for me. Next up: Fr. Gascoigne, who has smacked me down twice so far (the first time I got him into beast form, and it was really the camera that defeated me, by getting caught outside the wall of the arena, so I couldn't see what was going on).