Shadow Empire Catch-All

A thread for the Matrix/Slitherine strategy game. Questions, tips and heroic struggles welcome!

TIPS UPDATED 6/7. Feel free to suggest additions.

Okay, some advice here (partly from my previous posts). Take this as being from a raw beginner, but mostly gleaned from the manual. If I get something wrong, let me know.

Das Tactics has a great tutorial series that he is adding to every day.

First play - Generate a game, then save it before doing anything. Mess around, press buttons, read screens, move units, fight, run a few turns. Then READ THE MANUAL and go back to your original save and start over.

First thing to do each turn is to review Decisions, then read the Reports, especially the Urgent ones. You don't need to read every report every day. Everything you do other than call someone or look at data will cost you Political Points, so keep an eye on those points. Take care of important decisions, then do your "action" tasks, things that involve units, assets, etc.

Make sure your leaders are in the appropriate jobs. You might need to switch them around if a new leader comes in who is better at a job than the existing one. Remember faction loyalties and budget allocations and salaries can affect Relations between you and a leader, so as you shift them from one job to another (done via Calls), use your admin tools to make sure no one gets too upset by the changes.

You don't have to do all the Stratagems yourself. Ones that are normally used appropriately by your staff and advisors are marked. Only use them if you think there's a need.

Attach your free Advisor to another leader based on their relative skills and the duties of the leader he's Advising. So if your Advisor is a tech geek and has better stats at that then your Governor, attach him. If he's a military guy, but not as good as your Strategic HQ leader, maybe use another of his skills and attach him elsewhere. You get the idea. Use the Advisor to enhance some other leader - or yourself, if you think he'll roll better when things happen than you will, based on relative skills.

Your initial troops are militia. Regulars are about 2.5x better. Take a look at the Raise Formation tab. Gee, it takes more than you have to build even a brigade of regulars. Start figuring out how you can get what you need.

Think about setting up mining sites and other resource extraction facilities. You will want roads to those sites, to make sure production is at 100% when finished. But remember roads are all about Logistics; movement is secondary, I think. EDIT - NO, geez, I put myself in Industrial Point debt with this idea. Build new Industries first. Definitely. EDIT AGAIN - Welp, that also put me in debt. Not sure how to bootstrap the economy. Working on that now. EDIT - Yeah, no, let your resource stocks accumulate before you decide to build something.

This latter bit is important. Don't build stuff without the resources to complete it in something like the minimum amount of time. Remember, you're tying up resources as you build, that could be used for other things, so if you are just trickling 50 industry per turn into a 2500 industry point task, well, you've just shut down everything else you could do with those industry points. Better to save up 2500 and do the build then.

You should probably build a solid Regular unit/stack before messing with big Asset builds. At least get some solid boots on the ground to supplement your militia.

Send your troops on the first turn to clear the area at least 2 hexes in radius around your city. This will prevent low production (your zone is new and will need to cut out new territory by sending troops through it). Think about grabbing nearby towns, which are Free Folk population centers. Maybe avoid actually attacking the Free Folk, though, since they are the source of migrants to your city (and the sink for those who *leave* your city). Continue this land claiming to expand your area of control each turn, just be mindful of supply chains.

To learn about the game, look at all the tabs you can find. Every one, even the map modes. There are little pop-out tabs *everywhere*, so check them all out.

Don't forget to pick technology to research. I think I did forget it on my first turn. EDIT - No, that's done by the Economic Council lol. Discoveries and research. You should initially set up your Economic Council, give it a leader and then bias its budget towards Discoveries, more than Research. Once you get a good backlog of Research topics from Discoveries, maybe change that, but Discoveries will be more helpful in the early game, I understand.

This is a management game with deep military stuff. It is NOT a wargame with management bolted on. Your units are important, but logistics and resources and diplomacy and economics and tech and all that other stuff are at least as important. Don't brush off the management and personnel stuff in favor of pushing pieces around. Pretty sure that will lead to a steady decline. Building your economy is very important, as is building and sustaining Logistics and production assets. All that will help support your military campaigns.

Some military units you find (ie, reconstitute from gear found in ruins, a turn start event) are one-shot only. I found this out the hard way when the rocket unit I discovered and manned turned out to be Atomics lol. Oh, and READ THE DESCRIPTION of found units, because it turns out I was warned.

Kill Marauders, I don't think they reconstitute. They are just annoying, but they do give your troops and leaders experience, and they can *seriously* f*up your supply network.

Anyone else have tips?

Ohhh that's what I prefer to moving guys around, management, logistics and personnel stuff! Thanks for that!

Veloxi, I'm starting to get advice in-game that I need to move units around and claim territory. That's probably a good idea too.

For all its complexity, it's weirdly compelling. Much more so than HOI IV, for me.

Thanks for all the impressions! I just picked it up.

Following on from the other thread, Robear, I loved Armageddon Empires too. While this looks to have a very different design philosophy - simulationist, crunchy, and grognardy, vs AE's boardgame/CCG elegance - if it's half as good, I will be happy.

Das Tactic has a tutorial series for this, about 20 mins each, and he's adding one or two a day. Up to about 14 so far.

Whew, this game definitely has the “one more turn” magic!

I think my biggest tip / observation is that logistics seems to be the central mechanic of the game. It’s central in that it links the military (wargame) and civilian (4X) halves of the game, and it’s central in that it’s critical to each of those halves. Military logistics seem par for the course compared to other games: build roads, truck depots, and eventually, railways to keep your troops in supply. What makes this unique is that the same system is used to ship resources through the economy: I’ve noticed that zones with inadequate infrastructure will only import a fraction of what they need from the rest of the empire. So, build those trucks and railways! And get sealed roads when they become available.

My second observation, as Robear noted, is there is an order of magnitude difference between militia with improvised weapons and “proper” troops. This really becomes clear when you get tanks, or if you recover Galactic Republic-era tech.

I’m still playing my beginner game. I have a long, snaky, east-west empire that pretty much runs along the entire equator of the map. It’s only one zone “tall” so there is no strategic depth; the railway I built through the empire is its crucial artery. Think Egypt and the Nile, but flipped onto its side.

I learned my lesson about logistics the hard way when waging war on the poorly-built up frontier. My latest conquest had brought me into contact with a raider faction, which attacked me soon afterward. I was a nation-state with tanks and artillery, they had Mad Max buggies - what could go wrong? Well, not only did I not have the infrastructure to supply an army on the frontier, I didn’t have the infrastructure to bring in the raw materials to build up the infrastructure. Talk about chicken and egg! When my zone finally got enough resources to build a train station, and the supplies started flowing in, that was when the tanks were finally able to move out.

When I wrapped up last night, a neighbouring major faction had just declared war on me. This is likely to be the first serious opponent I fight - the minor factions and provincial rebels I’ve defeated had nothing stronger than militia. To make matters worse, the new enemy has a long border with me and would be well-placed to cut the railway if they have fast units. I think I need to build more mobile units in a hurry!

Whew! Glad someone else likes it! Please continue with the advice and stories, I feel like I'm absorbing like a sponge with the various information sources I've found.

Oh, I didn't realize this would come out on the Matrix store earlier than on Steam. Even better, if you purchase the game on the Matrix store, you'll get a Steam key when it's released there. And there is a 20% discount?!

Yikes, my defenses are crumbling. I believe our walls have been breached already.

EDIT: Enemy sappers dug under the walls of our central keep while I was eating dinner with my family. I returned from dinner to find my willpower castle in ruins. Downloading game now.

MORE EDIT: Wow, this is ... overwhelming. So much going on.

Here's my saved game if anyone wants to see my empire: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0de39f97s1...

Comments:

Economy:

- Basically this map is Space Australia. The interior is desert, while the land becomes wetter and more fertile as you get closer to the coast on either edge of the map.

- The capital is Sandfrost, which contains most of my mining operations. The other provinces have fertile farmland but not as much in terms of other natural resources.

- More developed zones, which have been in my empire for longer, have more built-up cities. In particular they have more universities (research bonus!) and civil service offices (budget points bonus!).

- The key resource bottleneck is metal. I've only found a single metal deposit so far in the entire game (just outside the capital). Otherwise I'm reliant on metal scavenged from pre-fall ruins. Right now there is a metal crunch because I've embarked on a big civil construction program. The timing is not great, because I would dearly like more metal for the armed forces...

Military:
- The empire's main strike force is the reinforced infantry brigade (newly equipped with trucks ) hanging out in the East. The light tank battalion and artillery battalion attached provide the actual firepower in battle.

- My more developed cities also have a couple of infantry battalions equipped with Galactic Republic laser rifles, courtesy of goody huts. (Has anyone worked out what triggers the goody hut event? Does it come from ruins, or just from exploring new territory?)

- So far my military has nothing heavier than the single light tank battalion. I have had medium tanks unlocked for some time, but haven't built any - my light tanks have been more than enough to handle minor factions.

Well, no plan survives contact with the enemy. All those wars against minor factions made me complacent, because I was not expecting the major faction to surge across the border on a broad front, fielding tanks, infantry body armour, and lots and lots of men.

I'm frantically raising new brigades to defend the capital and the railway east - the entire eastern half of my empire is in danger of being cut off from supply. Fortunately the enemy tanks aren't very good - they have tissue paper armour and are only really capable of infantry support; my medium tanks go through them like a hot knife through butter. But that still leaves tons and tons of infantry to deal with. Yikes!

EDIT: Phew, salvaged the situation! I desperately recruited infantry supported by machine guns and light tanks, played every 'spawn friendly sentinel robots' card I had, and managed to push the enemy back from the gates of my capital. At one point they were in the adjacent hex. Now my counterattack is routing them. Meanwhile, my crash economic rebalancing program (increase oil production by investing in bio-diesel, increase metal production, decrease civilian oil consumption by switching to renewable energy) should pay off in a few turns. Good place to wrap up for the night.

Every time I discover and use some nuance or option, the game gets better and more interesting. It is weirdly compelling. Spreadsheet game AND solid wargame, but with the spreadsheets keeping the wars going... It's tantalizing. Everything you figure out makes the game work better, somehow.

My advice is to keep at it and expend a lot of short runs from the same starting save to learn the different mechanisms. Keep the manual easy to hand and learn the love the dulcet Ozzie tones of Das Tactics lol.

Thos Das Tactics tutorials are everything. I started my first game last night and just poked around and fought a bit. I couldn't figure out how to build roads, but I just kept plodding along. I watched about 6 of those tutorials and I feel like I'm ready to get back into that save. I haven't really even cracked the manual yet. I'm excited to keep messing around and see what happens. Then, busting open the manual to really see how to play the game.

I honestly don't think I've ever played a game that had this combination of 4X and very detailed wargame combat/logistics. It's like Operational Art of War and Civ had a baby.

I'll be on this one for quite some time.

Maybe a GWJ PBEM is in the future?

Thanks for the great reports so far, Robear and Mind Elemental!

I've been a fan of Victor Reijkersz since he released People's Tactics as a freeware game all the back in (*checks notes*) 2004, so have definitely been looking forward to this one. His most recent Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa stood out in particular for layering a very interesting pseudo-RPG management layer on top of a great wargame and logistics framework in a way that really worked for me, so I'm glad to see that he leaned into those aspects and continued innovating here. My only issue now is that I'm still enjoying Old World's early access quite a bit, but Shadow Empire is definitely next up!

For anyone looking for more info on the game, Explorminate has a great review that goes into a lot of detail on the various systems that make the game special. For something more succinct, I also appreciated A Wargamer's Needful Thing's take and the review up on Wargamer.

Oh, definitely clicking now. I'm clearing out Marauders (rather than uneasily avoiding them) with my newly-raised MG infantry. I've got a metal plant, and I'm working on a new MG Infantry model design. Also just finished a new Light Industry, so I've gone from around 28 IPs per turn to something like 38 or 40. And I managed to get a Peace strategem, so my original war has vanished. The major power to my south is a bit creepy, so I'm land-grabbing there to try to create a buffer.

Only problem is that I picked up a leader by promising to liberate his hometown, and that turned out to be *really* impossible. Kicked up his salary, but his morale is still dropping. Not sure if I should give him a different command, or what.

This is great fun.

Vic did Barbarossa? That was an amazing game! No wonder this one is so good! He's gonna turn into Sid Meier if he's not careful.

A few tips while they occur to me:

Military: Unit types:

- Infantry are much better at defending than attacking. That goes doubly so for machine guns.
- Tanks are excellent attackers. You will notice the difference the moment you field your first light tanks in combat.
- There are different types of artillery. Howitzers pack a punch and, as far as I can work out, only can bombard a target from one hex away. Rocket artillery comes later and has a multi-hex range, but is expensive in terms of machinery: I have a single unit of rocket artillery and several of howitzers.
- When designing vehicles, they take a speed penalty if weight (from the cannon, armour, and the engine) is less than the power of the engine. It can still sometimes be worth it to have an over-armoured design (e.g. - an infantry support tank).

Economic:

- Resource deposits are finite - you can see the remaining reserves by clicking on the hex. I’ve had an ice deposit and multiple oil wells run out on me so far. So, maybe don’t build too many oil wells early on and “waste” that oil if you can’t use it! And, conversely, think about investing in solar power, bio-fuel, etc before you need them.

Robear wrote:

Vic did Barbarossa? That was an amazing game! No wonder this one is so good! He's gonna turn into Sid Meier if he's not careful. :-)

Oh yeah, he’s a real boss — especially considering that it’s pretty much a one man show. He also did Advanced Tactics, which Shadow Empire is a more direct sequel to.

What world types have you guys started with? I wanted to start with a non-vanilla one, so was thinking Medusa since PvE is usually fun in games like this.

Gunner wrote:

What world types have you guys started with? I wanted to start with a non-vanilla one, so was thinking Medusa since PvE is usually fun in games like this.

Siwa, I think? The one described as like Earth, but more arid. I wanted something straightforward for my first game. I’m thinking of Medusa next so would love to hear your thoughts!

First "real" game - lost on turn 6. Had a decision that I failed that unleashed some mutants, one unit I could see, one I could not, maybe others. My militia were besieging a minor's capital. My newly raised army brigade was trying to make contact with the mutant force I could see. The mutant force I could not see came in and took my capital. "Your dreams of empire are over."

At least I will go to bed somewhat early.

I'm barely rolling by turn 6, lol. Remember, infantry, and especially MG infantry, are *defensive* units. I tend to run around with my motorized ones initially, and leave a Militia brigade parked at home with my artillery unit. Just in case of mutant attack.

Did you use your first few turns to kind of spiral out and grab land near your city? Even if you can't see a unit, if it encroaches on your land, you will see that happen. Provides warning time.

Anyone found a simple way to break down brigades into battalions, or corps into brigades?

I feel like I'm over-reaching a bit in my game, trying to set up councils, but I'm having a lot of fun doing it lol.

tboon wrote:

First "real" game - lost on turn 6. Had a decision that I failed that unleashed some mutants, one unit I could see, one I could not, maybe others. My militia were besieging a minor's capital. My newly raised army brigade was trying to make contact with the mutant force I could see. The mutant force I could not see came in and took my capital. "Your dreams of empire are over."

At least I will go to bed somewhat early.

Was that the event where you send troops to shut down a mad scientist's lab, and if you fail the roll it all goes pear-shaped? I got that the other day - fortunately not until I was in the mid-game with an army that could handle the mutants.

Robear wrote:

Anyone found a simple way to break down brigades into battalions, or corps into brigades?

When you select a unit, you can click the 'unit admin' button on the right (bottom-most tab). The 'upgrade' button lets you upgrade brigades to corps so the 'downgrade' button may be what you're after.

I don't think you can break down brigades into anything smaller though - brigades are the smallest OHQ size.

Thanks Mind Elemental! I did a 12 hour day yesterday and was antsy that I could not get some of this in. Kind of shocked by the "just one more turn" effect this game has. Very well designed once you figure out the interface.

Mind Elemental wrote:
tboon wrote:

First "real" game - lost on turn 6. Had a decision that I failed that unleashed some mutants, one unit I could see, one I could not, maybe others. My militia were besieging a minor's capital. My newly raised army brigade was trying to make contact with the mutant force I could see. The mutant force I could not see came in and took my capital. "Your dreams of empire are over."

At least I will go to bed somewhat early.

Was that the event where you send troops to shut down a mad scientist's lab, and if you fail the roll it all goes pear-shaped? I got that the other day - fortunately not until I was in the mid-game with an army that could handle the mutants.

Yes that is the one.

I have noticed some oddities in the battle planner - sometimes (not sure how often this happens), unselecting and reselecting the same unit will not have the same effect on the attack odds? I noticed this when I was attacking the main city of a minor regime. I attacked from the map with a unit which opened the planner. The odds were much worse than I thought they should be but instead of cancelling, I unselected the unit and selected different unit (this town was surrounded by 12ish units, I had my pick). Worse odds. So I remove that unit and go back to my original and voila! the odds are more in line with what I thought they should be initially. Thereafter, I started paying attention more and saw this a number of times.

Bug or intended behavior?

Question: is there anyway to permanently "let go" of a leader? I have one that a) is dumb b) has low capacity and c) has such a poor relationship with me I would just rather have them go away via whatever means.

Did you know that you can add in units from the top bar, on the left, to the attack? So you should not have had to change from unit to unit. I don't know why the odds changed when you went back and forth, have not seen that. Probably should let Vic know.

I have not had a leader I needed to get rid of. Maybe put someone else in his slot and let him just linger in the Reserve pool? In an emergency, he'd be better than no leader at all...

1.02 update is out. Must be downloaded from Matrix; it has a Launcher update that will allow future updates to show up in the Launcher menu.

Once I got my economy going, in my 6th or so start of my first game :-), I found that the game was more forgiving. Every turn, I look at my strat cards to see if I can do something to raise a leaders morale, or scope out a neighbor, or somehow affect the current situation. I find being aggressive with the cards can make big changes quickly. Especially if you've had to do something that discouraged your leaders or population.

Now that I've clear out the Marauders near my city, I am running units in all directions in a land grab. This seems to be a good thing and I probably should have done it sooner.

I uncovered a Free Folk town a few hexes from my city, and when my citizens decided to build a private farm industry, they built a road there themselves.

For reference, I'm about 18 turns into this game.

I bought this a couple of days ago but haven't played it yet. I'm having the same problem that I have with Paradox games. It sounds so cool, but I'm having trouble getting up the activation energy to start playing it.

Thanks, Robear! Updating now. Looking forward to getting in a couple of turns after work.

I agree with you that the challenge is the economy. I have to be close to 100 turns in, and even with enemies on every side (two major empires plus assorted minor factions), my military can handle them in a fair fight. The challenge is being able to scrape together the resources to muster more troops.

My big investment in soil de-metalisation plants (which use energy to generate metal) is about to pay off! "Just one more turn" (or two, or three) and I can raise a few more brigades...

tboon wrote:

Question: is there anyway to permanently "let go" of a leader? I have one that a) is dumb b) has low capacity and c) has such a poor relationship with me I would just rather have them go away via whatever means.

You can get 'retirement' cards (from the interior council, I think?) that allow you to pay off leaders in exchange for getting a 50% chance they'll retire.

I think authoritarian governments can also assassinate their own leaders

Finally, I've had one city governor retire on his own after hitting age 70.

robc wrote:

I bought this a couple of days ago but haven't played it yet. I'm having the same problem that I have with Paradox games. It sounds so cool, but I'm having trouble getting up the activation energy to start playing it.

If it helps, robc, I think this is a lot simpler - or at least more intuitive - than a lot of Paradox games. It's clearer and less complex than, say, the Victoria games, and less abstract and "gamey" than EU4. There are a lot of numbers under the bonnet, but you can essentially play using common sense once you get the hang of things.

The trick is that there are a lot of concepts here that are completely new to the 4X genre, most notably the critically important logistics system. So it's not like, say, going from Civ to the Endless games, where you can rely on a shared 4X "language".