A thread for the Matrix/Slitherine strategy game. Questions, tips and heroic struggles welcome!
Ohhh that's what I prefer to moving guys around, management, logistics and personnel stuff! Thanks for that!
Thanks for all the impressions! I just picked it up.
Following on from the other thread, Robear, I loved Armageddon Empires too. While this looks to have a very different design philosophy - simulationist, crunchy, and grognardy, vs AE's boardgame/CCG elegance - if it's half as good, I will be happy.
Whew, this game definitely has the “one more turn” magic!
I think my biggest tip / observation is that logistics seems to be the central mechanic of the game. It’s central in that it links the military (wargame) and civilian (4X) halves of the game, and it’s central in that it’s critical to each of those halves. Military logistics seem par for the course compared to other games: build roads, truck depots, and eventually, railways to keep your troops in supply. What makes this unique is that the same system is used to ship resources through the economy: I’ve noticed that zones with inadequate infrastructure will only import a fraction of what they need from the rest of the empire. So, build those trucks and railways! And get sealed roads when they become available.
My second observation, as Robear noted, is there is an order of magnitude difference between militia with improvised weapons and “proper” troops. This really becomes clear when you get tanks, or if you recover Galactic Republic-era tech.
I’m still playing my beginner game. I have a long, snaky, east-west empire that pretty much runs along the entire equator of the map. It’s only one zone “tall” so there is no strategic depth; the railway I built through the empire is its crucial artery. Think Egypt and the Nile, but flipped onto its side.
I learned my lesson about logistics the hard way when waging war on the poorly-built up frontier. My latest conquest had brought me into contact with a raider faction, which attacked me soon afterward. I was a nation-state with tanks and artillery, they had Mad Max buggies - what could go wrong? Well, not only did I not have the infrastructure to supply an army on the frontier, I didn’t have the infrastructure to bring in the raw materials to build up the infrastructure. Talk about chicken and egg! When my zone finally got enough resources to build a train station, and the supplies started flowing in, that was when the tanks were finally able to move out.
When I wrapped up last night, a neighbouring major faction had just declared war on me. This is likely to be the first serious opponent I fight - the minor factions and provincial rebels I’ve defeated had nothing stronger than militia. To make matters worse, the new enemy has a long border with me and would be well-placed to cut the railway if they have fast units. I think I need to build more mobile units in a hurry!
Oh, I didn't realize this would come out on the Matrix store earlier than on Steam. Even better, if you purchase the game on the Matrix store, you'll get a Steam key when it's released there. And there is a 20% discount?!
Yikes, my defenses are crumbling. I believe our walls have been breached already.
EDIT: Enemy sappers dug under the walls of our central keep while I was eating dinner with my family. I returned from dinner to find my willpower castle in ruins. Downloading game now.
MORE EDIT: Wow, this is ... overwhelming. So much going on.
Here's my saved game if anyone wants to see my empire: https://www.dropbox.com/s/0de39f97s1...
Comments:
Economy:
- Basically this map is Space Australia. The interior is desert, while the land becomes wetter and more fertile as you get closer to the coast on either edge of the map.
- The capital is Sandfrost, which contains most of my mining operations. The other provinces have fertile farmland but not as much in terms of other natural resources.
- More developed zones, which have been in my empire for longer, have more built-up cities. In particular they have more universities (research bonus!) and civil service offices (budget points bonus!).
- The key resource bottleneck is metal. I've only found a single metal deposit so far in the entire game (just outside the capital). Otherwise I'm reliant on metal scavenged from pre-fall ruins. Right now there is a metal crunch because I've embarked on a big civil construction program. The timing is not great, because I would dearly like more metal for the armed forces...
Military:
- The empire's main strike force is the reinforced infantry brigade (newly equipped with trucks ) hanging out in the East. The light tank battalion and artillery battalion attached provide the actual firepower in battle.
- My more developed cities also have a couple of infantry battalions equipped with Galactic Republic laser rifles, courtesy of goody huts. (Has anyone worked out what triggers the goody hut event? Does it come from ruins, or just from exploring new territory?)
- So far my military has nothing heavier than the single light tank battalion. I have had medium tanks unlocked for some time, but haven't built any - my light tanks have been more than enough to handle minor factions.
Well, no plan survives contact with the enemy. All those wars against minor factions made me complacent, because I was not expecting the major faction to surge across the border on a broad front, fielding tanks, infantry body armour, and lots and lots of men.
I'm frantically raising new brigades to defend the capital and the railway east - the entire eastern half of my empire is in danger of being cut off from supply. Fortunately the enemy tanks aren't very good - they have tissue paper armour and are only really capable of infantry support; my medium tanks go through them like a hot knife through butter. But that still leaves tons and tons of infantry to deal with. Yikes!
EDIT: Phew, salvaged the situation! I desperately recruited infantry supported by machine guns and light tanks, played every 'spawn friendly sentinel robots' card I had, and managed to push the enemy back from the gates of my capital. At one point they were in the adjacent hex. Now my counterattack is routing them. Meanwhile, my crash economic rebalancing program (increase oil production by investing in bio-diesel, increase metal production, decrease civilian oil consumption by switching to renewable energy) should pay off in a few turns. Good place to wrap up for the night.
Thos Das Tactics tutorials are everything. I started my first game last night and just poked around and fought a bit. I couldn't figure out how to build roads, but I just kept plodding along. I watched about 6 of those tutorials and I feel like I'm ready to get back into that save. I haven't really even cracked the manual yet. I'm excited to keep messing around and see what happens. Then, busting open the manual to really see how to play the game.
I honestly don't think I've ever played a game that had this combination of 4X and very detailed wargame combat/logistics. It's like Operational Art of War and Civ had a baby.
I'll be on this one for quite some time.
Maybe a GWJ PBEM is in the future?
Thanks for the great reports so far, Robear and Mind Elemental!
I've been a fan of Victor Reijkersz since he released People's Tactics as a freeware game all the back in (*checks notes*) 2004, so have definitely been looking forward to this one. His most recent Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa stood out in particular for layering a very interesting pseudo-RPG management layer on top of a great wargame and logistics framework in a way that really worked for me, so I'm glad to see that he leaned into those aspects and continued innovating here. My only issue now is that I'm still enjoying Old World's early access quite a bit, but Shadow Empire is definitely next up!
For anyone looking for more info on the game, Explorminate has a great review that goes into a lot of detail on the various systems that make the game special. For something more succinct, I also appreciated A Wargamer's Needful Thing's take and the review up on Wargamer.
A few tips while they occur to me:
Military: Unit types:
- Infantry are much better at defending than attacking. That goes doubly so for machine guns.
- Tanks are excellent attackers. You will notice the difference the moment you field your first light tanks in combat.
- There are different types of artillery. Howitzers pack a punch and, as far as I can work out, only can bombard a target from one hex away. Rocket artillery comes later and has a multi-hex range, but is expensive in terms of machinery: I have a single unit of rocket artillery and several of howitzers.
- When designing vehicles, they take a speed penalty if weight (from the cannon, armour, and the engine) is less than the power of the engine. It can still sometimes be worth it to have an over-armoured design (e.g. - an infantry support tank).
Economic:
- Resource deposits are finite - you can see the remaining reserves by clicking on the hex. I’ve had an ice deposit and multiple oil wells run out on me so far. So, maybe don’t build too many oil wells early on and “waste” that oil if you can’t use it! And, conversely, think about investing in solar power, bio-fuel, etc before you need them.
Vic did Barbarossa? That was an amazing game! No wonder this one is so good! He's gonna turn into Sid Meier if he's not careful. :-)
Oh yeah, he’s a real boss — especially considering that it’s pretty much a one man show. He also did Advanced Tactics, which Shadow Empire is a more direct sequel to.
What world types have you guys started with? I wanted to start with a non-vanilla one, so was thinking Medusa since PvE is usually fun in games like this.
What world types have you guys started with? I wanted to start with a non-vanilla one, so was thinking Medusa since PvE is usually fun in games like this.
Siwa, I think? The one described as like Earth, but more arid. I wanted something straightforward for my first game. I’m thinking of Medusa next so would love to hear your thoughts!
First "real" game - lost on turn 6. Had a decision that I failed that unleashed some mutants, one unit I could see, one I could not, maybe others. My militia were besieging a minor's capital. My newly raised army brigade was trying to make contact with the mutant force I could see. The mutant force I could not see came in and took my capital. "Your dreams of empire are over."
At least I will go to bed somewhat early.
First "real" game - lost on turn 6. Had a decision that I failed that unleashed some mutants, one unit I could see, one I could not, maybe others. My militia were besieging a minor's capital. My newly raised army brigade was trying to make contact with the mutant force I could see. The mutant force I could not see came in and took my capital. "Your dreams of empire are over."
At least I will go to bed somewhat early.
Was that the event where you send troops to shut down a mad scientist's lab, and if you fail the roll it all goes pear-shaped? I got that the other day - fortunately not until I was in the mid-game with an army that could handle the mutants.
Anyone found a simple way to break down brigades into battalions, or corps into brigades?
When you select a unit, you can click the 'unit admin' button on the right (bottom-most tab). The 'upgrade' button lets you upgrade brigades to corps so the 'downgrade' button may be what you're after.
I don't think you can break down brigades into anything smaller though - brigades are the smallest OHQ size.
tboon wrote:First "real" game - lost on turn 6. Had a decision that I failed that unleashed some mutants, one unit I could see, one I could not, maybe others. My militia were besieging a minor's capital. My newly raised army brigade was trying to make contact with the mutant force I could see. The mutant force I could not see came in and took my capital. "Your dreams of empire are over."
At least I will go to bed somewhat early.
Was that the event where you send troops to shut down a mad scientist's lab, and if you fail the roll it all goes pear-shaped? I got that the other day - fortunately not until I was in the mid-game with an army that could handle the mutants.
Yes that is the one.
I have noticed some oddities in the battle planner - sometimes (not sure how often this happens), unselecting and reselecting the same unit will not have the same effect on the attack odds? I noticed this when I was attacking the main city of a minor regime. I attacked from the map with a unit which opened the planner. The odds were much worse than I thought they should be but instead of cancelling, I unselected the unit and selected different unit (this town was surrounded by 12ish units, I had my pick). Worse odds. So I remove that unit and go back to my original and voila! the odds are more in line with what I thought they should be initially. Thereafter, I started paying attention more and saw this a number of times.
Bug or intended behavior?
Question: is there anyway to permanently "let go" of a leader? I have one that a) is dumb b) has low capacity and c) has such a poor relationship with me I would just rather have them go away via whatever means.
I bought this a couple of days ago but haven't played it yet. I'm having the same problem that I have with Paradox games. It sounds so cool, but I'm having trouble getting up the activation energy to start playing it.
Thanks, Robear! Updating now. Looking forward to getting in a couple of turns after work.
I agree with you that the challenge is the economy. I have to be close to 100 turns in, and even with enemies on every side (two major empires plus assorted minor factions), my military can handle them in a fair fight. The challenge is being able to scrape together the resources to muster more troops.
My big investment in soil de-metalisation plants (which use energy to generate metal) is about to pay off! "Just one more turn" (or two, or three) and I can raise a few more brigades...
Question: is there anyway to permanently "let go" of a leader? I have one that a) is dumb b) has low capacity and c) has such a poor relationship with me I would just rather have them go away via whatever means.
You can get 'retirement' cards (from the interior council, I think?) that allow you to pay off leaders in exchange for getting a 50% chance they'll retire.
I think authoritarian governments can also assassinate their own leaders
Finally, I've had one city governor retire on his own after hitting age 70.
I bought this a couple of days ago but haven't played it yet. I'm having the same problem that I have with Paradox games. It sounds so cool, but I'm having trouble getting up the activation energy to start playing it.
If it helps, robc, I think this is a lot simpler - or at least more intuitive - than a lot of Paradox games. It's clearer and less complex than, say, the Victoria games, and less abstract and "gamey" than EU4. There are a lot of numbers under the bonnet, but you can essentially play using common sense once you get the hang of things.
The trick is that there are a lot of concepts here that are completely new to the 4X genre, most notably the critically important logistics system. So it's not like, say, going from Civ to the Endless games, where you can rely on a shared 4X "language".
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