[News] Protests Against Police Violence After Death of George Floyd

Discuss police violence, the victims of police violence (including George Floyd and Breonna Taylor), the Black-led protests against said violence, and related topics.

I watched 45’s speech so I could stay informed first hand. But good grief, that was really hard to watch. Tone deaf and blind to reality. Inflaming and designed to make things worse. The guy wants nothing more than to deploy the military at home, and he’s happy to keep making things worse until he “has no other choice.”

Somebody give him a copy of Total War and tell him it’s Fox News so he can play commander without killing innocent civilians.

I wonder if this is all part of the playbook to suspend elections in November.

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

mudbunny wrote:

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

I have a Master's degree, understand hockey, and can make maple syrup.

mudbunny wrote:

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

Eh?

Reaper81 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

I have a Master's degree, understand hockey, and can make maple syrup.

As a resident of the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, I live further north than a healthy portion of Canada's population, so I'm willing to help teach residents learn how to cope with cold weather.

Nevin73 wrote:

I wonder if this is all part of the playbook to suspend elections in November.

What makes you think they're going to wait that long to try to stop democracy?

Stele wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

Eh?

We'll let you in.

Reaper81 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

I have a Master's degree, understand hockey, and can make maple syrup.

You too.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

As a resident of the Minneapolis-St. Paul area, I live further north than a healthy portion of Canada's population, so I'm willing to help teach residents learn how to cope with cold weather.

You as well

Nevin73 wrote:

I wonder if this is all part of the playbook to suspend elections in November.

I absolutely believe he is trying to sh*t things up so bad that he might get away with it. That’s why he flipped his lid over mail-in ballots.

I think it’s behind the rush to open up, as well as enflaming the riots. I’m mean, he got his base to spread the virus last week, now he has the left doing the same.

It’s not a plot though. It’s just using current event to his advantage. And it’s why the GOP has clammed up.

At some point, we may need to dial up the Storm Area 51 plan to get him out of office.

Rat Boy wrote:

He gassed peaceful protesters just so he could walk across the street to take pictures at a church.

He did it so he could reassure his white Evangelical base and remind them that he's the one that's going to make America great again by keeping all those non-white, non-Evangelicals in their place. And those dumb motherf*ckers will lap it up and ask for more.

WaPo wrote:

The Right Rev. Mariann Budde, the Episcopal bishop of Washington, was seething.

President Trump had just visited St. John’s Episcopal Church, which sits across from the White House. It was a day after a fire was set in the basement of the historic building amid protests over the death of George Floyd, who was in the custody of Minneapolis police.

Before heading to the church, where presidents have worshiped since the days of James Madison, Trump gave a speech at the White House emphasizing the importance of law and order.

Federal police officers then used force to clear a large crowd of peaceful demonstrators from the street between the White House and the church, apparently so Trump could make the visit.

“I am outraged,” Budde said in a telephone interview a short time later, pausing between words to emphasize her anger as her voice slightly trembled.

She said she had not been given any notice that Trump would be visiting the church, and did not approve of the manner in which the area was secured for his appearance.

“I am the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington and was not given even a courtesy call, that they would be clearing [the area] with tear gas so they could use one of our churches as a prop,” Budde said.

She excoriated the president for standing in front of the church — its windows boarded up with plywood — holding up a Bible, which Budde said “declares that God is love.”

“Everything he has said and done is to inflame violence,” Budde of the president. “We need moral leadership, and he’s done everything to divide us, and has just used one of the most sacred symbols of the Judeo-Christian tradition.”

Trump did not go inside the church. No one associated with St. John’s was present for his visit.

Andrew Whitehead, a sociologist at Clemson University who studies Christian nationalism, said Trump’s appearance in front of the building was an attempt to promote the idea of America as a distinctly Christian nation.

“Going to the church, not going in it, not meeting with any clergy, holding up a Bible, but not quoting any scripture, after an authoritarian speech, was about using the religious symbolism for his ends,” Whitehead said.

Trump, who is not outwardly religious, has used the Bible in the aftermath of tragedy before. After tornadoes ripped through cities in Alabama in 2019, he signed several Bibles for his fans during a visit to the state.

This time, Whitehead said, he used the Bible to support his Rose Garden speech.

“It was a signal to the people that embrace the idea of a Christian nation, that he will defend Christianity in the public sphere,” Whitehead said. “He said he’ll make America safe. That raised the question, for whom? It’s largely for white, mostly Protestant America.”

The head of the Episcopal denomination accused Trump in a statement Monday night of using “a church building and the Holy Bible for partisan political purposes.”

“This was done in a time of deep hurt and pain in our country, and his action did nothing to help us or to heal us,” said Presiding Bishop Michael Curry.

“The bible teaches us that ‘God is love.’ Jesus of Nazareth taught, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ The prophet Micah taught that the Lord requires us to ‘do justice, love mercy and walk humbly with our God,’” Curry said, calling on Trump and others in power to be moral.

“For the sake of George Floyd, for all who have wrongly suffered, and for the sake of us all, we need leaders to help us to be ‘one nation, under God, with liberty and justice for all,’” Curry wrote.

Go Episcopals!

Nothing makes a religion angrier than someone using their holy symbols for secular purposes.

He want to a church and did not even hold a moment of silence, a prayer, or anything.

Also, I’m really scared about what tonight will bring. We are about to find out how many white nationalists entrenched in law enforcement are ready to go forward on their own to support Trump.

IMAGE(https://i.postimg.cc/8P51Qwjy/A2-F371-C6-3-A8-B-41-CD-B4-C5-CC8-CE52-DB23-E.jpg)

What is that he's aiming at that guy's face from two feet away? That is way too close even to be shooting beanbags at someone.

Another angle that just makes it worse...

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/Dy7GmCD.png)

Jayhawker wrote:

He want to a church and did not even hold a moment of silence, a prayer, or anything.

It’s a calculated photo op to pander to a demographic. Nothing more. It is abundantly clear Trump knows nothing about the book in his hand.

Can we not play sh*t on every attempt Nomad tries to make? His engagement seemed authentic and just because he quoted an examiner didn't mean we needed 3 follow-up posts of antagonization. Assume some positive intent please. That could have been posted by several others without scrutiny.

This is a time to find new ways to put aside differences and come together. Let's start with our community when they attempt to engage with the current situation. There is a larger enemy than our friends.

ruhk wrote:

IMAGE(https://i.postimg.cc/8P51Qwjy/A2-F371-C6-3-A8-B-41-CD-B4-C5-CC8-CE52-DB23-E.jpg)

I was going to say one usually has to wait until the summer for an arc involving the cops turning on a Bat character, but it's June already.

Reaper81 wrote:
mudbunny wrote:

So, currently Canada does not accept "refugees" from the US because the US is a safe country.

Wonder if that will change in the coming days/weeks?

I have a Master's degree, understand hockey, and can make maple syrup.

I have no formal higher education and a severely disabled kid. I've looked into emigration to other countries, and nowhere else would take us. Whatever happens here, I have to see through to the end, which is honestly terrifying sometimes.

So now they're buzzing protesters in DC with Blackhawk helos tonight. Yes, the DoD thinks American citizens exercising their constitutional right to protest are no different than insurgents in Mogadishu or Baghdad. And somehow I spelled Mogadishu right on my first pass and not protesters, insurgents, or constitutional.

This is a minor aspect in the grand scheme of horrible things right now, but I've always been pretty annoyed at how a bunch of these people always use language and imagery that evokes the American Revolution. From the yahoo with the Gadsden flag bumper sticker on the back of his pickup truck (usually in some combination with the Confederate battle flag, thin blue line, and NRA stickers) all the way up the right-wing chain of command to the likes of Hannity and Carlson, talking about "liberty" and the like. Seems like it's getting worse. I don't think Trump's knowledge and vocabulary is wide enough, so I guess it doesn't get quite all the way to the top at least.

In particular, I was livid four days ago when Tucker Carlson disapprovingly said on his show that "rioting is a form of tyranny". What the F are you even talking about? Do you even know what "tyranny" means? Do you care? Is it just a word you throw around that ultimately just means something you disapprove of (like "unconstitutional")?

If there's any "tyranny" going on here, it's clearly not on the side of the protestors.

The lack of self awareness. I mean, every elementary school student knows some of the most celebrated incidents leading up to the Revolution were a group of politically disaffected people (thugs, if you will) destroying a bunch of expensive property that didn't belong to them. And a bunch of soldiers indiscriminately firing into a crowd of rioters. Sound familiar? It shouldn't take much introspection for these people to realize they've got the sides mixed up and they should be flying the Union Jack and cosplaying as Redcoats instead of Minutemen. They're not on the side of freedom and liberty.

I don't think it's really a great parallel though- Black Lives Matter vs. The Sons of Liberty. I'm pretty sure the current protesters have more significant grievances than they did back then. Don't brutalize and kill us > don't tax us.

The scariest part about all of this is how there is state sanctioned use of excessive force right across the country, yet despite public outcry and the videos/photos of police brutality, it is continuing in force and none of the perpetrators will be held accountable.

I'm growing more and more horrified of the scenes I'm seeing reported over there. That's the kind of thing the rest of the world was recently denouncing China for in Xinjiang and HK. But it's happening in the States and it doesn't look like it will come to a head very soon.

Bfgp wrote:

The scariest part about all of this is how there is state sanctioned use of excessive force right across the country, yet despite public outcry and the videos/photos of police brutality, it is continuing in force and none of the perpetrators will be held accountable.

I'm growing more and more horrified of the scenes I'm seeing reported over there. That's the kind of thing the rest of the world was recently denouncing China for in Xinjiang and HK. But it's happening in the States and it doesn't look like it will come to a head very soon.

Honestly the rest of the world should move on without us. Good luck.

Tagging. Never trusted American police or military and am very disappointed they're doubling down on the use of force stance. Surprised the people protesting have been able to stick it out.

I hope some change for the better happens but it's hard to be hopeful.

And some random other minor thoughts:

Like Bfgp said, Trump is making China look better and better by the day. What moral high ground can the US possibly hold when addressing their actions in Hong Kong? And hell, worst case/nightmare scenario, but not impossible- in the coming weeks and months we may no longer even have the moral high ground relative to their actions in Tiananmen Square.

I already found administration efforts to hide the numbers of dead from COVID-19 to be slightly reminiscent of China's efforts to erase Tiananmen from the history books.

Also Biden absolutely needs to pick a black woman for his VP candidate. And not just as a matter of election strategy. I mean, it doesn't really solve anything just like Obama becoming president didn't solve anything, but still, he needs to do it in my opinion. Which reminds me... Who's going to start a new election thread, so people can get back to griping about the Bernie Bros and useless centrist Democrats?

And besides systemic racism, which is obviously the main issue, which I don't really feel qualified to talk about as a white guy, I think this country's particular interpretation of the Second Amendment leading to a gun-ridden society is part of the problem here. It has steadily led to a nationwide police force that has developed the mentality (with some justification) that every minor interaction with a citizen could result in a life or death struggle. This has led to a police force that is amped up, fearful and antagonistic at baseline. It compensates by using overly aggressive, bullying tactics to overwhelm any possible opposition before it escalates. And there's also this arms race, where police are looking more and more like an occupying Army more appropriate for Afghanistan than an American city. I can't help but think relations between police and the community would be much better if we didn't have so many guns around.

Tagging.

(There have been demonstrations here in Belfast, Northern Ireland, and across the border in Dublin, Ireland.)

Jayhawker wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Nomad wrote:

Hennepin County Medical Examiner says Floyd's death was homicide resulting from being restrained

CNN wrote:

The medical examiner’s office in Hennepin County, Minnesota, released a report that said George Floyd’s death was a homicide resulting from being restrained.

The statement said the cause of death is “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restrain, and neck compression.”

It further added that Floyd died from experiencing a “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).”

The American Heart Association described cardiopulmonary arrest as the abrupt loss of heart function.

The medical examiner’s office statement said Floyd had indications of heart disease including “arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease,” as well as fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use.

Interesting thing to post.

Propaganda doesn’t spread itself.

~mod~
Oh, you three, again. Please don't, this thread moves fast enough without the drama. This one's important. Your squabbles are not. Please pay attention.

Amoebic wrote:
Jayhawker wrote:
DSGamer wrote:
Nomad wrote:

Hennepin County Medical Examiner says Floyd's death was homicide resulting from being restrained

CNN wrote:

The medical examiner’s office in Hennepin County, Minnesota, released a report that said George Floyd’s death was a homicide resulting from being restrained.

The statement said the cause of death is “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restrain, and neck compression.”

It further added that Floyd died from experiencing a “cardiopulmonary arrest while being restrained by law enforcement officer(s).”

The American Heart Association described cardiopulmonary arrest as the abrupt loss of heart function.

The medical examiner’s office statement said Floyd had indications of heart disease including “arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease,” as well as fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use.

Interesting thing to post.

Propaganda doesn’t spread itself.

~mod~
Oh, you three, again. Please don't, this thread moves fast enough without the drama. This one's important. Your squabbles are not. Please pay attention.

Amoebic, if there is something I have done wrong, or should do differently, please feel free to let me know.

~mod~
You bet! Will be pm-ing folks this afternoon after work, just didnt have time last night or while work desk right now. PM's via mobile not ideal, extremely time consuming, prone to errors. Thanks for your patience! - Amorbic

From a colleague who teaches criminal justice.

PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT:
MEANS OF DEATH, CAUSE OF DEATH, HOMICIDE

I’m not an attorney but I’ve taught many sections of homicide. The following information may be helpful when thinking about the trial of the officer(s) who killed George Floyd

There are five means of death: homicide, suicide, accidental, natural and unknown.

By contrast, cause of death refers to the medical condition(s) that contributed to death. Examples include: blood loss, cardiac arrest, brain trauma, cancer, asphyxiation, starvation, blunt force trauma, drug overdose and many others.

Homicide is NOT a cause of death. By definition, a homicide is not accidental. However, it might be legal. Some examples of legal homicide include: death by lawful execution, legally justified self defense or a person killed during military combat

Homicides are generally separated into two major categories: intentional and unintentional. The most serious type of intentional homicide is premeditated (I.e., preceded by some type of planning, forethought or deliberation). The law does not provide a specific amount of forethought or planning necessary for premeditation. In any event, these are typically regarded as “first degree murder” or “murder.” The second type of intentional homicide occurs during a sudden emotional reaction not involving premeditation or forethought (i.e., in the heat of passion). Basically, the killer loses emotional control. In these instances the murder is intended but not premeditated. These are usually referred to as “second degree murders” or “voluntary murders.” Intimate partner homicides are frequently second degree murders. In these instances the violence was not initiated with murder in mind but for some reason it escalated to intentional lethal violence. Another example would be a sudden fist fight in which one of the combatants is intentionally beaten to death.

There are two basic types of unintended homicides, reckless and negligent. These are usually regarded as “manslaughter” or as a lesser degree of murder (e.g., 3rd or 4th degree) Reckless homicides usually involve the deliberate commission of an act that a reasonable and prudent person would see as presenting a dangerous risk of bodily harm (e.g., using a crossbow to shoot an apple off the head of a willing participant from 50 ft away). By contrast, negligent homicide occurs when the perpetrator fails to act reasonable care to prevent the act that led to death (e.g., an unsupervised toddler accidentally shoots him/herself while knowingly left within reach of a loaded firearm).

tl;dr. There is no reason to believe that this cannot or will not be ruled a legal homicide later.