[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

I saw a local news blurb on my phone this morning that NC cases of COVID-19 deaths are now four times greater than flu.

Can't say I'm surprised he's pulling this BS. I'd like the media to start suggesting that Trump is actively trying to kill people with his proclamations. This isn't shooting a single person on 5th avenue. This is potentially murdering tens of thousands...


Trump deems houses of worship 'essential' amid pandemic and threatens to override governors

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump announced Friday that his administration is issuing guidance deeming places of worship "essential" operations during the coronavirus pandemic, threatening to "override" governors if their states did not follow the new federal recommendations.
"Some governors have deemed liquor stores and abortion clinics essential, but have left our churches and houses of worship. It's not right. So I'm correcting this injustice and calling houses of worship essential," Trump said during his announcement at the White House.
Trump said he was calling upon governors to "allow churches and places of worship to open right now."

"If there's any question, they're going to have to call me, but they're not going to be successful in that call," Trump added.
"The governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important essential places of faith to open right now, this weekend. If they don't do it, I will override the governors," he continued.

His last grift has been killing people:
CNN: Large study finds hydroxychloroquine Covid-19 treatments linked to greater risk of death and heart arrhythmia

Seriously ill Covid-19 patients who were treated with hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine were more likely to die or develop dangerous heart arrhythmias, according to a large observational study published Friday in the medical journal The Lancet.

Researchers analyzed data from more than 96,000 patients with confirmed Covid-19 from 671 hospitals. All were hospitalized from late December to mid-April, and had died or been discharged by April 21.

Just below 15,000 patients were treated with the antimalarial drugs hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine, or one of those drugs combined with an antibiotic.

All four of those treatments were linked with a higher risk of dying in the hospital. About 1 in 11 patients in the control group died in the hospital. About 1 in 6 patients treated with chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine alone died in the hospital. About 1 in 5 treated with chloroquine and an antibiotic died and almost 1 in 4 treated with hydroxychloroquine and an antibiotic died.

As suspected, treating COVID-19 with hydroxychloroquine tends to kill people.

edit until I can find a source I feel comfortable linking to

Does this study take into account that sicker patients may have been given HCQ as a last-ditch effort to save them? i.e., the patients most likely to die were the ones given the drug, so the increased likelihood of death might be unrelated to the drug itself. That was a common criticism of the data that came out of the VA.

Regardless, there has been nothing so far to demonstrate any benefit to HCQ for treating covid-19.

JC wrote:

Can't say I'm surprised he's pulling this BS. I'd like the media to start suggesting that Trump is actively trying to kill people with his proclamations. This isn't shooting a single person on 5th avenue. This is potentially murdering tens of thousands...


Trump deems houses of worship 'essential' amid pandemic and threatens to override governors

Trump said he was calling upon governors to "allow churches and places of worship to open right now."

"If there's any question, they're going to have to call me, but they're not going to be successful in that call," Trump added.
"The governors need to do the right thing and allow these very important essential places of faith to open right now, this weekend. If they don't do it, I will override the governors," he continued.

Also from the article:

Trump threatened to "override" governors if their states did not follow the new federal recommendations, but he does not have the authority to do so.
...
McEnany, asked about Birx's response, said the decision to reopen based on the new federal guidance is "up to the governors."
McEnany would not explain what authority Trump would use to "override" governors' decisions to keep places of worship closed.

It's his usual deal: Bluster, make some wild statements, and then leave everyone else to try to explain it away. If he stays true to form he'll probably deny he even said it two days from now.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Does this study take into account that sicker patients may have been given HCQ as a last-ditch effort to save them? i.e., the patients most likely to die were the ones given the drug, so the increased likelihood of death might be unrelated to the drug itself. That was a common criticism of the data that came out of the VA.

If the impact was neutral, the mortality rate would be the same with or without HCQ. Also note this wasn't a double-blind study, just an accumulation of data from various sources.

The church thing is totally playing to his base cult. It portrays him as a champion of free religion.

And if a few thousand of them die....well the others are likely to vote so really who cares?

I liked this headline


AMERICA IS OFFICIALLY IN ‘f*ck IT’ MODE

When doing the right thing is too hard, we give up and let fate run wild.

Because really that is the motto of the US in my lifetime - if doing the right thing is hard, give up. Gun violence? Give up. Health care? Give up. If it seems hard - give up.

farley3k wrote:

I liked this headline


AMERICA IS OFFICIALLY IN ‘f*ck IT’ MODE

When doing the right thing is too hard, we give up and let fate run wild.

Because really that is the motto of the US in my lifetime - if doing the right thing is hard, give up. Gun violence? Give up. Health care? Give up. If it seems hard - give up.

Link isn't working for me.

lunchbox12682 wrote:
farley3k wrote:

I liked this headline


AMERICA IS OFFICIALLY IN ‘f*ck IT’ MODE

When doing the right thing is too hard, we give up and let fate run wild.

Because really that is the motto of the US in my lifetime - if doing the right thing is hard, give up. Gun violence? Give up. Health care? Give up. If it seems hard - give up.

Link isn't working for me.

Replace the * with a u.

GERMS GONE WILD!

I figured it out. The link has f*ck in it and the software here bleeps it, which makes the link not work! So you would have to correct the link and I can't do that because the forum software is smarter than me (today anyway)

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/...

LouZiffer wrote:
lunchbox12682 wrote:
farley3k wrote:

I liked this headline


AMERICA IS OFFICIALLY IN ‘f*ck IT’ MODE

When doing the right thing is too hard, we give up and let fate run wild.

Because really that is the motto of the US in my lifetime - if doing the right thing is hard, give up. Gun violence? Give up. Health care? Give up. If it seems hard - give up.

Link isn't working for me.

Replace the * with a u.

Meh. Too hard. I give up.

IMAGE(https://66.media.tumblr.com/42719867559c7dafa977999881aa3ff0/tumblr_mdaxmyhPAy1qb05aco2_r1_500.gif)

I assume everybody is keeping their balls safe?

MannishBoy wrote:

I assume everybody is keeping their balls safe?

Ok. This is the best thing I've seen in weeks. Thank you!

JC wrote:
MannishBoy wrote:

I assume everybody is keeping their balls safe?

Ok. This is the best thing I've seen in weeks. Thank you!

This goes under the lighter side of pandemic.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

Does this study take into account that sicker patients may have been given HCQ as a last-ditch effort to save them? i.e., the patients most likely to die were the ones given the drug, so the increased likelihood of death might be unrelated to the drug itself. That was a common criticism of the data that came out of the VA.

Regardless, there has been nothing so far to demonstrate any benefit to HCQ for treating covid-19.

Yeah, they took that into account:

Patients who received one of the treatments of interest within 48 h of diagnosis were included in one of four treatment groups (chloroquine alone, chloroquine with a macrolide, hydroxychloroquine alone, or hydroxychloroquine with a macrolide), and patients who received none of these treatments formed the control group. Patients for whom one of the treatments of interest was initiated more than 48 h after diagnosis or while they were on mechanical ventilation, as well as patients who received remdesivir, were excluded.

The Lancet: Hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine with or without a macrolide for treatment of COVID-19: a multinational registry analysis

After controlling for age, sex, race or ethnicity, underlying comorbidities, and disease severity at baseline, the use of all four regimens was associated with an increased hazard for de-novo ventricular arrythmia and death in hospital.

No benefit, and people who needlessly take chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine die more frequently even when controlling for severity of condition.

now that all news programs consist of remote talking heads, they should all be conducted like ESPN's Around the Horn.

farley3k wrote:

I liked this headline


AMERICA IS OFFICIALLY IN ‘f*ck IT’ MODE

When doing the right thing is too hard, we give up and let fate run wild.

Because really that is the motto of the US in my lifetime - if doing the right thing is hard, give up. Gun violence? Give up. Health care? Give up. If it seems hard - give up.

I thought only millennials wanted things easy?

Re: balls video

I realize this is just a silly gaffe video, but we should be mindful that RT is a mouthpiece of the Russian government. They are a key part of Russia's propaganda operations. Reporters, including some of their ex reporters, have accused them of regularly spreading false information.

I'm really uncomfortable contributing to their views on YouTube.

The tl;dr of that most recent study: you're about 35% more likely to die if you take either form of chloroquine, and two or three times more likely to suffer from heart arrhythmia.

Note that this is not a double-blind test; rather, it's just an observation of an existing patient base. That means it's just describing correlations, rather than being a controlled proof. But given the results of the observation, it seems likely to me that conducting actual studies could be considered unethical.

BadKen wrote:

Re: balls video

I realize this is just a silly gaffe video, but we should be mindful that RT is a mouthpiece of the Russian government. They are a key part of Russia's propaganda operations. Reporters, including some of their ex reporters, have accused them of regularly spreading false information.

I'm really uncomfortable contributing to their views on YouTube.

Search for another version then. There are a bunch. I actually heard it on a podcast or somewhere, then went to Youtube to share. I just found the first one that didn't have a bunch of extra edits. Shoot me.

Thought it was fun.

BadKen wrote:

Re: balls video

I realize this is just a silly gaffe video, but we should be mindful that RT is a mouthpiece of the Russian government. They are a key part of Russia's propaganda operations. Reporters, including some of their ex reporters, have accused them of regularly spreading false information.

I'm really uncomfortable contributing to their views on YouTube.

If you didn't I was gonna, thanks for bringing it up. It's important we remember this. The only reason they post likeable stuff like this is so they get treated like any other news outlet.

MannishBoy wrote:
BadKen wrote:

Re: balls video

I realize this is just a silly gaffe video, but we should be mindful that RT is a mouthpiece of the Russian government. They are a key part of Russia's propaganda operations. Reporters, including some of their ex reporters, have accused them of regularly spreading false information.

I'm really uncomfortable contributing to their views on YouTube.

Search for another version then. There are a bunch. I actually heard it on a podcast or somewhere, then went to Youtube to share. I just found the first one that didn't have a bunch of extra edits. Shoot me.

Thought it was fun.

It’s fun, but giving traffic to RT is a bad idea. I can imagine someone getting that link and then getting a bunch of YT recommendations that take them down the path of extreme disinformation.

Our delicate brains.

MannishBoy wrote:

Our delicate brains.

Actually, yes. Brainwashing and disinformation is tearing our society apart and being a responsible citizen and grown adult means not contributing to that.

Quintin_Stone wrote:

Useless. They're not sterile. They're not wrapped to avoid cross-contamination.

Yep. Reminds me of the Phantom of Heilbronn, a person whose DNA was collected from 40 crime scenes. Turned out the suspected serial killer worked at the factory making the cotton swabs used to collect evidence.

It's a pretty standard propaganda move, really. You want some innocuous content in the channel, it can't all be hammering the party line hard.

World War Two had a lot of experimentation of wartime propaganda; all of the countries had radio programs. The most popular part of the propaganda broadcasts was probably the news bulletins, since military secrecy made it difficult for civilians to know what their own armies were doing, and therefore any news of what had happened to your friends and relatives was filtered through those broadcasts. This is where Voice of America came from--though the aim there was to tell the truth. And they probably did, by and large: propaganda doesn't mean telling lies, it means telling your point of view, and while they were undoubtedly selective it was often more effective to achieve the actual aim by being more informative. The OSS had other programs that did what was then referred to as "black propaganda": pretending to be from other sources. "Operation Annie" for example, which was a program that pretended to be an independent German radio program, broadcasting from the front lines and continually on the run from encroaching Allied troops. Or the extensive British operation, which followed a "cover, cover, dirt, cover, dirt" mix of content.

In addition to news, which people were hungry for, there was entertainment: just like today, a crisis means people want to be distracted. The US' Armed Forces Radio Service had programs like GI Jive, Command Performance, and Mail Call with music and other programming. One reason why they were emphasized--beyond the obvious morale boosting effects--was the concern that bored soldier with nothing else to listen to would listen to enemy propaganda. Both Germany and Japan had English language radio programs, interspersing American music with concerns about infidelity of soldiers' wives, anti-Semitic rhetoric, and carefully editing interviews with prisoners of war. Japan's efforts were partly sabotaged from the inside because the American prisoners of war they employed.

I assume there were similar efforts in other parts of the war, but while I know a little about the propaganda situation in China and other parts of Asia, I don't know much about the propaganda on the Eastern front.

Sorry, I'm just fascinated by the history of propaganda.