[News] Post a D&D Picture

Previous incarnations of Cleveland/P&C/D&D have had an image thread, to handle political cartoons and other image-based stuff that doesn't belong in the general post-a-picture threads.

If any of them spawn an extended discussion, please spawn it off into its own thread. Replies to non-picture replies should take the form of a link pointing to a post on a different discussion thread.

And I shouldn't have to say it, but the images still need to abide by the rules.

IMAGE(https://i.postimg.cc/9MCTT0Gh/C6-D5-FC50-AE6-F-4-DC7-8221-D452382634-BA.jpg)

Link to the Wikipedia article. Current holder of the the Candy Desk is Pat Toomey from Pennsylvania. Apparently the Democrats have their own candy desk as well.

They can't even agree to share a sugar stockpile!

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUJ-zjZU0AAFpP4?format=jpg&name=small)

Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUJ-zjZU0AAFpP4?format=jpg&name=small)

Perfect.

Jayhawker wrote:

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUJ-zjZU0AAFpP4?format=jpg&name=small)

Maybe it’s time I reengage with my staunchly republican, movie-loving family’s group chat just to post that. So good.

He had to have been re-elected for Jaws 2 though...

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/TDgdKL3.png)

IMAGE(https://i.redd.it/fnckir3bsjp41.png)

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation. It's the post-Greenspan central banking that's f*cked everything up. It's not normal for economies to collapse once a decade.

Malor wrote:

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation. It's the post-Greenspan central banking that's f*cked everything up. It's not normal for economies to collapse once a decade.

I really like this quote: Carl Sagan: "Clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness."

Apropos of nothing, I'm sure.

Malor wrote:

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation. It's the post-Greenspan central banking that's f*cked everything up. It's not normal for economies to collapse once a decade.

It sure looks like it is normal or at least common.

Ummm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...

There have been as many as 47 recessions in the United States dating back to the Articles of Confederation, and although economists and historians dispute certain 19th-century recessions,[1] the consensus view among economists and historians is that "The cyclical volatility of GNP and unemployment was greater before the Great Depression than it has been since the end of World War II."[2] Cycles in the country's agricultural production, industrial production, consumption, business investment, and the health of the banking industry contribute to these declines. U.S. recessions have increasingly affected economies on a worldwide scale, especially as countries' economies become more intertwined.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/LoNLPIQ.png)

Malor wrote:

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation.

It's really not.

Time and again, the central tenet of capitalism, that free-market forces will result in some kind of balance, has proved wrong in practice. The problem is that basing an economy on shareholder value instead of common good to society is fundamentally flawed.

I don't know what the answer is. Communism and economic Socialism have their own problems. Capitalism has had its chance, but all it has produced is a spectacular accumulation of wealth for an increasingly infinitesimal percentage of the world's population.

Malor wrote:

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation.

I liken Capitalism to fire. When properly contained and controlled it can be used to forge wonders. When it's allowed to grow unchecked it consumes and destroys everything.

BadKen wrote:

But capitalism has had its chance, and all it has produced is a spectacular accumulation of wealth for an increasingly infinitesimal percentage of the world's population.

Honest question: if that's so, where did the western world's middle class come from in the first place? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a large middle class is not a typical occurrence in human history.

Yes, the way we've managed capitalism has produced the current unacceptable state of affairs. But I'm going to need a more substantial argument if I'm going to believe that's all it has produced.

Vargen wrote:

Honest question: if that's so, where did the western world's middle class come from in the first place? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a large middle class is not a typical occurrence in human history.

Unions and workers rights movements. Among other things.

Edit: And since this is a post a picture thread, there's a lovely graph on this page. It only covers to 1989, but if the last 20 years aren't indicative of a trend then what would be? I wanted to animate it into a gif and then realized I'd rather be gaming. The link lets you explore different views of the data to your heart's delight.

The game is: "Guess which columns contain the 'middle' class."

Vargen wrote:
Malor wrote:

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation.

I liken Capitalism to fire. When properly contained and controlled it can be used to forge wonders. When it's allowed to grow unchecked it consumes and destroys everything.

BadKen wrote:

But capitalism has had its chance, and all it has produced is a spectacular accumulation of wealth for an increasingly infinitesimal percentage of the world's population.

Honest question: if that's so, where did the western world's middle class come from in the first place? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a large middle class is not a typical occurrence in human history.

It sounds like you’re saying the falling off a cliff is great - look at how we’re all flying! ...until you hit the ground. The middle class was an interim evolution of the capitalist endgame. The pyramid had to be created before it could funnel assets up to the top.

Rezzy wrote:
Vargen wrote:

Honest question: if that's so, where did the western world's middle class come from in the first place? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a large middle class is not a typical occurrence in human history.

Unions and workers rights movements. Among other things.

Yes but in response to capitalism. Look at China. The largest middle class in the world was created by the adoption of capitalism, which was a response to Communism. So Malor is basically right, that capitalism works when it's well regulated, but you could say that about any ism.

Chairman_Mao wrote:
Rezzy wrote:

Unions and workers rights movements. Among other things.

...when it's well regulated...

We agree. Internet High Five!

So, social democracy rather than capitalism?

halfwaywrong wrote:

So, social democracy rather than capitalism?

Yep. Or as the Chinese call it, "Capitalism with Chinese characteristics"

Vargen wrote:

Honest question: if that's so, where did the western world's middle class come from in the first place? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a large middle class is not a typical occurrence in human history.

technology that moves a society past the point where the overwhelming majority of its labor has to be devoted to food production.

There's been plenty of socialism and capitalism throughout history in the sense of governments directing production or allowing free trade. The game changer is the science and technology that allows resources--especially food--to be more efficiently extracted.

edit: and processed, and transported, I should add, but I'll stop short of going more deeply into industrialization and colonialism right here.

I feel like a lot of the “successes” of capitalism are just the product of the Industrial Revolution and technology in general that people are falsely attributing to capitalism.

The world is too complicated and chaotic for any one particular -ism to solve everything. Which is why the US has lurched back and forth for decades. The middle class came from the New Deal, the G.I. Bill, the FDA, the EPA, unions and tons of other social programs. No simple, magical system will be able to react to new technologies, natural disasters, man-made disasters and charismatic con-men.

ruhk wrote:

I feel like a lot of the “successes” of capitalism are just the product of the Industrial Revolution and technology in general that people are falsely attributing to capitalism.

Many of which were government-funded, at least the basic research.

Chumpy_McChump wrote:
Vargen wrote:
Malor wrote:

Capitalism itself is fine, with some management and regulation.

I liken Capitalism to fire. When properly contained and controlled it can be used to forge wonders. When it's allowed to grow unchecked it consumes and destroys everything.

BadKen wrote:

But capitalism has had its chance, and all it has produced is a spectacular accumulation of wealth for an increasingly infinitesimal percentage of the world's population.

Honest question: if that's so, where did the western world's middle class come from in the first place? I'm far from an expert, but I'm pretty sure that a large middle class is not a typical occurrence in human history.

It sounds like you’re saying the falling off a cliff is great - look at how we’re all flying! ...until you hit the ground. The middle class was an interim evolution of the capitalist endgame. The pyramid had to be created before it could funnel assets up to the top.

The pyramid has been there for most of the history of human civilization. For a little while there we had a diamond, with the bulk of the people in the middle somewhere rather than at the bottom. The problem now is we're returning to the pyramid.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/kpMIeLX.png)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/HOuLd7D.jpg)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/xaE2W9G.jpg)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/28FXD06.jpg)

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/ZZ0CUTO_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUsMf6rU4AAjAsw?format=jpg&name=900x900)

Ah yes the GOP's favorite bible verse. Jesus 316, f*ck the poor.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/dqxelfW.jpg)