The GWJ JRPG Club - Q2 2020 - Bravely Second: End Layer

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Welcome, everyone, to what promises to be one of the weirder quarters of our life! And no, I am not referring to the game that we will be playing: Bravely Second: End Layer!

Weird times call for a weird game title!

Here is what we can all expect in terms of playtime:
IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/Jm8Xg4S.png)

Having never played Bravely Default, I have no idea what to expect. And what about you, fine Goodjers? Have you played Bravely Default? Were you masochistic enough to get the good ending, or did you get the bad ending and called it quits? Did you enjoy your experience? Are you looking forward to this?

Since apparently friends are somewhat important for this game, here is the list of friend codes participants have listed so far, in alphabetical order:

bobbywatson: 4871-8699-4131
Cronox: 2638-4566-6277
Darkhaund: 2208-8764-1363
Godzilla Blitz: 2165-6951-8984
LastSurprise: 4957-3784-1815
Malkroth: 3583-1184-6384
Mr GT Chris: 0362-1026-9636
Sundown: 3711-8412-9003

I'm participating, as soon as my copy comes in. I'm looking forward to a crunchy JRPG where we can compare notes on all the crazy setups we come up with.

So what counts as leveling up for this game?

Leveling up = getting the true ending.

I know what the gimmick is that’s required, and I kind of don’t want to say it up front because it’s a bit of a spoiler. But I’ll post a bit of the answer here, in case anyone’s willing to be spoiled:

Spoiler:

You need to start a New Game+, and you can pretty quickly get on the path to the true ending after you do.

Unlocking New Game+ doesn’t really count as “beating” the game, I think, as the NG+ mechanic is actually part of the story.

Don’t worry: getting the true ending in Bravely Second is much less onerous than it was in Bravely Default.

LastSurprise wrote:

Mr GT Chris, when you say a True NG+, do you mean

Spoiler:

Actually replaying the whole game, rather than using NG+ to move on to the endgame?

Yes, that's right. As you just mentioned, the true ending is definitely required for saying you've beaten the game. It's a little cryptic but they give you hints on how to get there. Sorry to say, I had to look up a hint at the time.

Well, I've started playing. I'm about 2 to 3 hours in, and to the point where I've recruited Edea and Magnolia, and am about to recruit Tiz. I've got my first two jobs, as well. It's really fun to be back in this world!

For anyone interested, and who hasn't played the main game. I've also written up a "good enough" summary of Bravely Default. This grew to be a lot longer than I intended when I started writing, so I don't blame you if you choose not to read it!

Spoiler:

A Good Enough Summary of Bravely Default

Welcome to Luxendarc, land of magic, and crystals, and airships! Bravely Default plot starts out as pretty standard Final Fantasy fare, but it gets really interesting after your characters “finish” their quest and discover that they’ve solved nothing.

The story begins when main character Tiz Arrior witnesses a pillar of light consume his village, leaving an enormous crater in its wake. He goes to Caldisla, the capital of his Kingdom, to gain answers; there, he meets Agnes Oblige, the Wind Vestal. She’s an important figure in the Crystal Orthodoxy, Luxendarc’s dominant religion. Essentially, her job is to preserve, protect, and pray to the Wind Crystal, to keep it powerful. She’s on a quest because the Wind Crystal -- like all others -- has been corrupted, and the powers of wind have ceased to function (hello, Final Fantasy!). Also, the Anticrystalist faction, led by the Grand Dutchy of Eternia, wants to overthrow the Crystal Orthodoxy, and wants her dead. Accompanying Agnes is Airy -- purportedly, a Cryst-Fairy who exists to restore the Crystals. You see Airy each time you open the menu, and she gives you little hints about what to do next.

In Caldisla, Tiz and Agnes meet Ringabel. He’s an amnesiac, a ladies’ man, and by the way, he has a journal that seems to predict the future. The group unites around the time that Eternian forces attack Caldisla. Here, they meet Edea Lee, daughter of the Eternian leader, Braev Lee (this game loves its puns!). Edea has been trained to lead, has a strong sense of justice, and naturally revolts--and joins our heroes--when she sees her fellow Eternians commit war crimes.

And over the course of the next 30 or so hours, there will be a lot of war crimes, because the Eternians are terrible people. The plot, from here, unfolds in that standard Final Fantasy way. You have to travel the world to an area associated with each element, first in a boat (really, a downed airship), then an airship proper. On your way, you confront servants of the evil empire -- who hold the different jobs you gain -- and defeat them, taking their Asterisk, and with it the power of their office..

After the final crystal is restored, a Holy Pillar of light appears right over the crater near Caldisla. Airy claims she must absorb the pillar’s energy into her brooch to finish restoring the Crystals and healing the world. So the party sets off for the pillar. But wait! A stowaway! Alternis Dim, a member of Eternia’s Counsel of Six (and the game’s Dark Knight), confronts the party and tries to stop them. The party defeats Alternis, sundering his armor and revealing … Ringabel? Then, the party flies into the pillar, and finding itself back in Caldisla, and back in time to the game's beginning.

Well, whatever. The party doesn’t quite understand what happened, but at Airy’s urging, sets off to awaken the Crystals and heal the world again. They have to go back to each of the four Crystal palaces and fight the bosses again, plus all of the Asterisk holders exist as optional bosses. But having the airship already, finishing this is a much quicker process. The party finds that things are ever-so-slightly different this time around. They also get a little bit more backstory of the world from Sage Yulyana. The first time around, he mostly existed as a hermit in the woods. But this time, the party learns he’s been alive for about 2,000 years, used to be the Crystal Orthodoxy’s High Inquisitor, and has been acting behind the scenes to help Eternia (he’s also on the Counsel). Centuries ago, he and another member of the Council were visited by an angel who looked remarkably like Agnes, and who warned them of the world’s impending doom.

So, the party continues on their way. Again, they awaken the Crystals; again, the Holy Pillar appears; again, they confront Alternis. But this time, Alternis explicitly points the finger at Airy as the cause of the world’s misfortune. Alternis is defeated again, and Ringabel regains his memory. And, the party again ends up in Caldisla, again at the beginning of the game.

At this point, you (the player) probably know what’s happening: Bravely Default is set in a multiverse. The mysterious, angelic visitor actually was Agnes, from a world that Airy ruined. And, Airy's the real villain here. It takes the party a long time to get it, and for the game to make it explicit -- largely because Ringabel / Alternis does not want to talk about it in front of Airy. Airy, for her part, gets increasingly forceful on the menu screen, screaming at you to get on with restoring the crystals.

Also, from this point on, certain key letters disappear from the title screen. The title screen originally displays: “Bravely Default: Where the Fairy Flies.” That becomes “Bravely Default: Airy Lies.” And, you start to notice that the patterns on Airy's wings look awfully like numbers, and the numbers have been counting down with each trip through the Holy Pillar.

From this point, you have a decision to make. You can pursue the “bad” ending immediately by continuing the cleansing ritual after Airy directs you to stop, overstimulating the crystal to the point that it shatters. Airy reveals her true form, and you unlock a final dungeon where you can confront her. But if you do this, you’ve bought a temporary peace, because Airy served a higher master, Ouroboros, who sought to consume all of the worlds and remake the universe in his image. The “true” ending involves going along with Airy’s plan, so that you can confront him. To do this, you have to play through a shortened version of the party's quest three additional times -- each time, repeating the Crystal bosses, and each time, gaining the option to replay the Asterisk holders.

To be fair, though, the confrontation with Ouroboros is pretty epic, and the late boss fights against the Asterisk holders are some of the best optional boss fights I’ve seen in a JRPG. Eventually they stop letting you face them four-on-one, and start taking you on as parties, themselves, and their abilities combine in very interesting ways! The optional Asterisk battles put your mastery of the job system to the test, for sure.

LastSurprise wrote:

Well, I've started playing. I'm about 2 to 3 hours in, and to the point where I've recruited Edea and Magnolia, and am about to recruit Tiz. I've got my first two jobs, as well. It's really fun to be back in this world!

For anyone interested, and who hasn't played the main game. I've also written up a "good enough" summary of Bravely Default. This grew to be a lot longer than I intended when I started writing, so I don't blame you if you choose not to read it!

Spoiler:

A Good Enough Summary of Bravely Default

Welcome to Luxendarc, land of magic, and crystals, and airships! Bravely Default plot starts out as pretty standard Final Fantasy fare, but it gets really interesting after your characters “finish” their quest and discover that they’ve solved nothing.

The story begins when main character Tiz Arrior witnesses a pillar of light consume his village, leaving an enormous crater in its wake. He goes to Caldisla, the capital of his Kingdom, to gain answers; there, he meets Agnes Oblige, the Wind Vestal. She’s an important figure in the Crystal Orthodoxy, Luxendarc’s dominant religion. Essentially, her job is to preserve, protect, and pray to the Wind Crystal, to keep it powerful. She’s on a quest because the Wind Crystal -- like all others -- has been corrupted, and the powers of wind have ceased to function (hello, Final Fantasy!). Also, the Anticrystalist faction, led by the Grand Dutchy of Eternia, wants to overthrow the Crystal Orthodoxy, and wants her dead. Accompanying Agnes is Airy -- purportedly, a Cryst-Fairy who exists to restore the Crystals. You see Airy each time you open the menu, and she gives you little hints about what to do next.

In Caldisla, Tiz and Agnes meet Ringabel. He’s an amnesiac, a ladies’ man, and by the way, he has a journal that seems to predict the future. The group unites around the time that Eternian forces attack Caldisla. Here, they meet Edea Lee, daughter of the Eternian leader, Braev Lee (this game loves its puns!). Edea has been trained to lead, has a strong sense of justice, and naturally revolts--and joins our heroes--when she sees her fellow Eternians commit war crimes.

And over the course of the next 30 or so hours, there will be a lot of war crimes, because the Eternians are terrible people. The plot, from here, unfolds in that standard Final Fantasy way. You have to travel the world to an area associated with each element, first in a boat (really, a downed airship), then an airship proper. On your way, you confront servants of the evil empire -- who hold the different jobs you gain -- and defeat them, taking their Asterisk, and with it the power of their office..

After the final crystal is restored, a Holy Pillar of light appears right over the crater near Caldisla. Airy claims she must absorb the pillar’s energy into her brooch to finish restoring the Crystals and healing the world. So the party sets off for the pillar. But wait! A stowaway! Alternis Dim, a member of Eternia’s Counsel of Six (and the game’s Dark Knight), confronts the party and tries to stop them. The party defeats Alternis, sundering his armor and revealing … Ringabel? Then, the party flies into the pillar, and finding itself back in Caldisla, and back in time to the game's beginning.

Well, whatever. The party doesn’t quite understand what happened, but at Airy’s urging, sets off to awaken the Crystals and heal the world again. They have to go back to each of the four Crystal palaces and fight the bosses again, plus all of the Asterisk holders exist as optional bosses. But having the airship already, finishing this is a much quicker process. The party finds that things are ever-so-slightly different this time around. They also get a little bit more backstory of the world from Sage Yulyana. The first time around, he mostly existed as a hermit in the woods. But this time, the party learns he’s been alive for about 2,000 years, used to be the Crystal Orthodoxy’s High Inquisitor, and has been acting behind the scenes to help Eternia (he’s also on the Counsel). Centuries ago, he and another member of the Council were visited by an angel who looked remarkably like Agnes, and who warned them of the world’s impending doom.

So, the party continues on their way. Again, they awaken the Crystals; again, the Holy Pillar appears; again, they confront Alternis. But this time, Alternis explicitly points the finger at Airy as the cause of the world’s misfortune. Alternis is defeated again, and Ringabel regains his memory. And, the party again ends up in Caldisla, again at the beginning of the game.

At this point, you (the player) probably know what’s happening: Bravely Default is set in a multiverse. The mysterious, angelic visitor actually was Agnes, from a world that Airy ruined. And, Airy's the real villain here. It takes the party a long time to get it, and for the game to make it explicit -- largely because Ringabel / Alternis does not want to talk about it in front of Airy. Airy, for her part, gets increasingly forceful on the menu screen, screaming at you to get on with restoring the crystals.

Also, from this point on, certain key letters disappear from the title screen. The title screen originally displays: “Bravely Default: Where the Fairy Flies.” That becomes “Bravely Default: Airy Lies.” And, you start to notice that the patterns on Airy's wings look awfully like numbers, and the numbers have been counting down with each trip through the Holy Pillar.

From this point, you have a decision to make. You can pursue the “bad” ending immediately by continuing the cleansing ritual after Airy directs you to stop, overstimulating the crystal to the point that it shatters. Airy reveals her true form, and you unlock a final dungeon where you can confront her. But if you do this, you’ve bought a temporary peace, because Airy served a higher master, Ouroboros, who sought to consume all of the worlds and remake the universe in his image. The “true” ending involves going along with Airy’s plan, so that you can confront him. To do this, you have to play through a shortened version of the party's quest three additional times -- each time, repeating the Crystal bosses, and each time, gaining the option to replay the Asterisk holders.

To be fair, though, the confrontation with Ouroboros is pretty epic, and the late boss fights against the Asterisk holders are some of the best optional boss fights I’ve seen in a JRPG. Eventually they stop letting you face them four-on-one, and start taking you on as parties, themselves, and their abilities combine in very interesting ways! The optional Asterisk battles put your mastery of the job system to the test, for sure.

Thanks for the recap.

Spoiler:

The only story beat I knew about was the part where Airy goes bad, and the whole Fairy Flies > Airy Lies beat. The rest was new, and it was wild. I can see how it came as a shock to anyone playing it blind, and also why the Bad End would be the acceptable level up point for the club.

Oh, whoa, you started early! Nice! I'm going to see what pops out of the RPG Club's vote, then figure out whether I can give this a try or not. I've been so horrible at finishing anything lately...

Can't wait to get into this! Such a perfect change of pace after Ys Origins.

My only hope is that it doesn't have another overly repetitive section like the first game did. That was...Not great.

Otherwise, I have nothing but fond memories of Bravely Default. I adored the job system and the general flow of battles. It truly felt like the most "Final Fantasy" game to come out since...IX? X? It certainly felt like a modernized FFV.

I played Bravely Default and enjoyed it a lot until chapter 6. That's kind of where the game broke down (too much repetition) and you needed to start using broken combos for boss fights. That's when I just went with a quad Valkyrie line-up in that game. Hope Second holds up better and doesn't require breaking the combat system to get the true ending!

I still don't know if I'm going to play or not, but this was a good chance to do some stress-relief shopping. I found one on Ebay for $13 shipped, so I ordered it.

I'm really good at buying the JRPG Club games. If there were levels for that, I'd be right near the top!

Last Surprise's summary actually makes me quite wish I'd played the original! Not happy with the lack of eshop discounts on the original game. If it had gone down to $20 I would definitely have bought and beaten it by now. Using PSPrices, it's apparently been on sale just once between Sep 2016 and now. That was Dec 2017 where the price was down to $28. The second game has similarly only been discounted once, Jan 2018, also down to $28. In the same period, Theatrhythm Final Fantasy Curtain Call has been discounted 10 times, each time down to $20. Unfortunately the cost of getting a physical copy to Japan usually balloons due to shipping.

Played a little more this morning, and I think I'm right near the end of the prologue. I was glad to see that getting Tiz in my party unlocks two really important things: the ability to adjust the encounter rate, and the ability to go for one more round after winning a battle, for scaling rewards. I really enjoy that mechanic, it rewards interesting ways to overkill your enemies.

Just reinstalled. I set the game difficulty to Hard but I don't think that will keep up with my NG+ stats. I'm reminded that a lot of stuff can be shared between players and since at least a few of us will be playing then it's probably worth friending each other up if that kind of thing interests you.

A reddit post I came across:

illithidbane
3 years ago
There are many benefits to having friends in Bravely Second. In fact, this was the game that finally convinced me to befriend strangers online for the perks using /r/bdfc. But none of them are technically co-op, as none of them share any control of your game. You just get perks:

Your moon base allows you to fight powerful monsters called Ba'als for excellent XP/JP/PG and some rare items. Friends can send you monsters to fight.

Your moon base allows you to reduce the level of the Ba'als so they are easier to fight. Friends can send you spaceships to help you weaken the Ba'als faster.

Throughout the game, you increase your job levels to learn new skills. Friends can send you their job levels to attach to your characters using "abilink," letting you use skills you have not unlocked yet on your own.

Friends can send single-use "friend summon" attacks that you can call on in battle, letting you use a very strong attack or spell without expending the resources on your own. These are not level restricted, so you could even use a Lv. 99 attack in your early game if a friend sends it.

A late-game job allows you to use a skill called "glossolalia" to cast all spells that have been sent as "friend summons" as though they were on the spell list for the character. With work, you can have an excellent healer / damage dealer / summoner / status changer as a single multi-role character.

While not available with online friends, street passes will increase the population of your moon base, allowing you to rebuild it faster.

Personally, I take advantage of the friend summons, ships, and abilink. I have not used glossolalia, but it's popular for some players.

I seem to recall finding it a bit useful when I originally played through the game. I'm GTC 0362-1026-9636 if you want to add me. Plus I'm pretty sure I'm on the GWJ master list so you may have added me previously.

So, in the last few weeks, I have started both Stardew Valley and Dragon Quest V. I also bought Animal Crossing this morning, with the intent of starting tonight. I'm still playing Ring Fit Adventure and Monster Hunter World. And now this is about to show up at my doorstep.

Guys, mistakes were made.

Also, my friend code: 4871-8699-4131

Watching the intro to Bravely Second (which recaps Bravely Default) completely changed how I interpreted the final scenes of Bravely Default. I will put my realization about Bravely Default in spoilers just in-case.

Spoiler:

I assumed that when the spirit in Tiz took him to the graveyard and said "Time to return what I borrowed." it was implying that Tiz did not survive the Great Chasm opening and he was dead the entire game. That he was only animated by the spirit that was dwelling in him. According to Bravely Second it was just co-dwelling in his body and Tiz is alive and well. What a complete twist on that ending from my perspective.

I'll join in on the friend code fun: 3583-1184-6384

I also interpreted the ending as you did. But ...

Spoiler:

I think the spirit did save Tiz, and he would have died otherwise. I think the game confirms this on your way bring Tiz back, an hour or two into the game.

So here's another thing about the ending to Bravely Default. Some of this, I understood at the time. Some of this, I put together after reading up on Bravely Default to write the novel I posted above.

Spoiler:

The spirit that kept Tiz alive is you, the player. You saved him when you entered the game, and he gives you up as the game ends -- and, at the point where you're no longer playing. I think there are some scenes to watch as the other characters react to Tiz going comatose, but at that point (I think) you are just an observer, without agency over the characters' actions.

I got this a little bit during the battle with Ouroboros. In his final phase, as you fight in the celestial realm, the DS's camera turns on and uses what it sees to form the background. My face was visible in the background, kind of superimposed on a planet, as if I were a god.

Apparently, this is the meaning of the video(s) at the beginning of the game which you can play with a QR code. Agnes asks for someone to hear her prayer, and she's seeking you. A fairy finds you and brings you into the world. And, at the end of the game, Ouroboros addresses you, the player, as if you are a god who has traveled into Luxendarc just as he has. The Celestial Realm that he seeks to enter is actually supposed to be our world.

Spoiler:

Correct. I don't remember the camera being used during the final boss fight, but I may have had my 3DS laying on a table at that point (since I was just full auto 4x speed at that point). They even use the camera thing again in the post-game video to tease Bravely Second. You are in some kind of egg chamber with a couple portholes and start hear things outside it and can look around by turning with your 3DS and the girl says she was looking for you. For some reason, I assumed this was Tiz, but given everything she is more likely referring to your spirit.

I am only 5 minutes into the game so far, will have some more time to play tonight though. Looking forward to it and actually having some friends this time around! When I played Default I only had the simulated friends they give you.

About the teaser video:

Spoiler:

Yup, that teaser scene is from Tiz's point of view. You'll see it again soon

Although this makes me wonder if that teaser scene is also referring to your spirit. We'll see, I guess!

By the way, my friend code is 4957-3784-1815!

My copy showed up one day after I was expecting it had I not screwed up my order. Not sure if I'm going to start now or attempt to finish Dragon Quest V before I do.

Tough choice.

I really liked Bravely default. I might start this one, once i finish Fire Emblem Fates Conquest

Godspeed my intrepid JRPG friends! I'll be sitting this one out, but cheering from the sidelines

Well, I've made it up to Al-Khempis, and have the first side story available to me. These are where you meet Bravely Default's Asterisk holders and get a choice to side with one, and fight the other, in exchange for a new job class. I think the first one's Thief vs. Red Mage.

The early parts of the game reminded me that neither in Bravely Default, nor in this one, should we be precious with our items. I've been trying to break myself of that JRPG habit where I hoard all my consumables "just in case I need them," -- but here, I've needed them, and I think I will throughout the game.

I've put in an hour so far. I'll probably just dip in here and there because my early impression is that the game doesn't necessarily have a lot to offer me with there being not so much time between now and beating it previously. A funny thing, I was getting absolutely pounded with random encounters until I finally worked out how to access the setting to adjust the frequency. Found it was still set to 2x as a carry over from my previous game, no wonder! Was reminded how beautiful the game is. The way the backdrop layers come in and out is gorgeous. I'm not that big on the character designs, no noses is just weird, but it is what it is. There's lots of voice acting so I'm brushing up on some Japanese listening skills by not reading the text below. It's really campy stuff.

While I was playing I got to thinking that this is great game stuck on a legacy platform (3DS). And I've started playing Ys: Memories of Celceta, stuck on Vita. Persona Q2 (3DS), now surely that will get a port to Switch. Somehow, in this age where everything gets released to at least 2 platforms, it just feels weird and a little sad that some games will be harder and harder to play as the years go by.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

While I was playing I got to thinking that this is great game stuck on a legacy platform (3DS). And I've started playing Ys: Memories of Celceta, stuck on Vita. Persona Q2 (3DS), now surely that will get a port to Switch. Somehow, in this age where everything gets released to at least 2 platforms, it just feels weird and a little sad that some games will be harder and harder to play as the years go by.

I think Celceta is out on PC and PS4.

Regarding Bravely Second, I got my copy, but might not start it right away, I think I might want to clear Dragon Quest V first (and I'm not that far into it). DQV is pretty short for a JRPG though.

bobbywatson wrote:

I think Celceta is out on PC and PS4.

Totally missed that, guess it was so locked in my head as being a big deal Vita exclusive at the time. Also, the first Vita game I ever played, in a demo kiosk! The memories... pun intended.

How does that work with the frequency setting for random encounters? If it's higher, do you get more experience, level up faster, and the game gets easier as you go along?

Basically yes. The primary benefit is more XP and Job Points. You need job points to level up your jobs and obtain more abilities. The XP you get for levelling scales pretty much as you would expect so grinding just for levels is not so effective. However, each enemy will give you a minimum of 1 JP regardless of how weak they are and, along with a multiplier effect (more on that later), you can grind JP quite effectively. This is necessary if you want to experiment with a large number of jobs because each time you get access to a new job it starts from level 1. Also, certain abilities you get from levelling up jobs, like dual wielding, allowing a mage to wear the best armour, etc. can be game changing/breaking.

There is a mechanic for applying a multiplier to your encounter rewards. If you complete an encounter within a single round, you are given the option to fight another encounter of similar level with a reward multiplier 1.2x (applied to cumulative rewards from both battles). Beat that in a single round and you can do it a 3rd time, multiplier 1.5x, then 1.8x, then 2x, that might be the max I think. But you can continue as long as you want at the 2x multiplier. That is, if you can continue to complete the encounter in a single round. By virtue of this, it's not really worth worrying about the mechanic too much until you have at least 4 party members. That way, if 1 party member can take out the enemy (using up to 4 actions/Brave Points), then you still have 3 party members available for the next encounter. Then, later you'll earn certain job abilities that allow you to recharge BP during a round that will help you get even more rewards.

Sorry if that came across a bit jumbled.

Mr GT Chris wrote:

Good information

So basically they put in mechanics to speed up grinding, which seems like a good things. Although I assume they are necessary to do late or postgame stuff on a reasonable timeframe.

It sounds sort of reminiscent of the mechanics in The World Ends With You where you can dial up the difficulty for more experience or higher drop percentages, and dial back down if it gets too hairy.

Neat, thanks, that's helpful! Interesting approach, for sure. I could see how that could make it easier to access a wider range of jobs and make job-decision mistakes less painful if you could power grind to try something else.

There's another huge benefit to adjusting the encounter rate: if you're almost totally spent, and need to run back to town -- or if you're doubling back for some treasure you missed, you can simply turn encounters off briefly, then turn them back on again when you're ready.

It took me way too long in Bravely Default to think of doing this.

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