[News] Coronavirus

A place to discuss the now-global coronavirus outbreak.

Mail carrier got the virus here. Make sure to not lick your mail and packages. Porch bandits are probably going to die now but they will be taking the virus away so pray for them.

Gremlin wrote:

It probably won't be as bad as the worst fears. The White House's insistence on treating it with tax cuts will contribute to both the response being worse and the general panic level, but it'll mostly be a second-order effect.

I don't even understand the logic behind this. How are tax cuts supposed to help address a pandemic outbreak in the U.S.?

What next? Tougher immigration laws to help prop up a falling stock market and federal restrictions on abortions to help hurricane victims?

Boudreaux wrote:
Gremlin wrote:

It probably won't be as bad as the worst fears. The White House's insistence on treating it with tax cuts will contribute to both the response being worse and the general panic level, but it'll mostly be a second-order effect.

I don't even understand the logic behind this. How are tax cuts supposed to help address a pandemic outbreak in the U.S.?

What next? Tougher immigration laws to help prop up a falling stock market and federal restrictions on abortions to help hurricane victims?

It is to get rich people more money.

Boudreaux wrote:

What next? Tougher immigration laws to help prop up a falling stock market and federal restrictions on abortions to help hurricane victims?

Close, but it's punishing the gays that prevents hurricanes.

The GOP hasn’t met a problem that can’t be solved with Tax cuts.

TheGameguru wrote:

The GOP hasn’t met a problem that can’t be solved with Tax cuts.

Definitely this.

But also shows the priority of the president. He doesn't care about saving lives as much as making sure the stock market's still strong and thus his chances for re-election.

We expected otherwise?

Boudreaux wrote:

I don't even understand the logic behind this. How are tax cuts supposed to help address a pandemic outbreak in the U.S.?

They're not. They're meant to prop up the stock market. Trump has staked a lot of his reelection on the economy, and a lot of his argument that the economy is doing well is built on the stock market. The stock market falling as a response to the virus is a threat to his reelection, and the tax cuts are meant to help with that. Public health has nothing to do with it.

The fact that the administration's covid-19 response team includes two economic advisors ought to tell you where the priorities are. Trump himself is already trying to blame any economic downturn, as well as any spread of the infection or deaths, on the Democrats.

This rational advice was sent out to company email:

Dr. James Robb is a consulting pathologist at the National Cancer Institute. Among the first molecular virologists in the world to work on coronaviruses -
Here's Dr. Robb’s advice to his colleagues:
Subject: What I am doing for the upcoming COVID-19 (coronavirus) pandemic
Dear Colleagues,
As some of you may recall, when I was a professor of pathology at the University of California San Diego, I was one of the first molecular virologists in the world to work on coronaviruses (the 1970s). I was the first to demonstrate the number of genes the virus contained. Since then, I have kept up with the coronavirus field and its multiple clinical transfers into the human population (e.g., SARS, MERS), from different animal sources.
The current projections for its expansion in the US are only probable, due to continued insufficient worldwide data, but it is most likely to be widespread in the US by mid to late March and April.
Here is what I have done and the precautions that I take and will take. These are the same precautions I currently use during our influenza seasons, except for the mask and gloves.:
1) NO HANDSHAKING! Use a fist bump, slight bow, elbow bump, etc.
2) Use ONLY your knuckle to touch light switches. elevator buttons, etc.. Lift the gasoline dispenser with a paper towel or use a disposable glove.
3) Open doors with your closed fist or hip - do not grasp the handle with your hand, unless there is no other way to open the door. Especially important on bathroom and post office/commercial doors.
4) Use disinfectant wipes at the stores when they are available, including wiping the handle and child seat in grocery carts.
5) Wash your hands with soap for 10-20 seconds and/or use a greater than 60% alcohol-based hand sanitizer whenever you return home from ANY activity that involves locations where other people have been.
6) Keep a bottle of sanitizer available at each of your home's entrances. AND in your car for use after getting gas or touching other contaminated objects when you can't immediately wash your hands.
7) If possible, cough or sneeze into a disposable tissue and discard. Use your elbow only if you have to. The clothing on your elbow will contain infectious virus that can be passed on for up to a week or more!
What I have stocked in preparation for the pandemic spread to the US:
1) Latex or nitrile latex disposable gloves for use when going shopping, using the gasoline pump, and all other outside activity when you come in contact with contaminated areas.
Note: This virus is spread in large droplets by coughing and sneezing. This means that the air will not infect you! BUT all the surfaces where these droplets land are infectious for about a week on average - everything that is associated with infected people will be contaminated and potentially infectious. The virus is on surfaces and you will not be infected unless your unprotected face is directly coughed or sneezed upon.
This virus only has cell receptors for lung cells (it only infects your lungs) The only way for the virus to infect you is through your nose or mouth via your hands or an infected cough or sneeze onto or into your nose or mouth.
2) Stock up now with disposable surgical masks and use them to prevent you from touching your nose and/or mouth (We touch our nose/mouth 90X/day without knowing it!). This is the only way this virus can infect you - it is lung-specific. The mask will not prevent the virus in a direct sneeze from getting into your nose or mouth - it is only to keep you from touching your nose or mouth.
3) Stock up now with hand sanitizers and latex/nitrile gloves (get the appropriate sizes for your family). The hand sanitizers must be alcohol-based and greater than 60% alcohol to be effective.
4) Stock up now with zinc lozenges. These lozenges have been proven to be effective in blocking coronavirus (and most other viruses) from multiplying in your throat and nasopharynx. Use as directed several times each day when you begin to feel ANY "cold-like" symptoms beginning. It is best to lie down and let the lozenge dissolve in the back of your throat and nasopharynx. Cold-Eeze lozenges is one brand available, but there are other brands available.
I, as many others do, hope that this pandemic will be reasonably contained, BUT I personally do not think it will be. Humans have never seen this (edited: animal)-associated virus before and have no internal defense against it.
Tremendous worldwide efforts are being made to understand the molecular and clinical virology of this virus. Unbelievable molecular knowledge about the genomics, structure, and virulence of this virus has already been achieved. BUT, there will be NO drugs or vaccines available this year to protect us or limit the infection within us. Only symptomatic support is available.
I hope these personal thoughts will be helpful during this potentially catastrophic pandemic. You are welcome to share.
Good luck to all of us!
James Robb, MD FCAP

DSGamer wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

The GOP hasn’t met a problem that can’t be solved with Tax cuts.

Definitely this.

But also shows the priority of the president. He doesn't care about saving lives as much as making sure the stock market's still strong and thus his chances for re-election.

A bit but it also show what voting Americans are about. They believe that if the economy is good their lives are good the fact that trump plays on that that belief is not really his fault.

Perhaps the electorate should be more thoughtful about what makes a "good" America.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
Boudreaux wrote:

I don't even understand the logic behind this. How are tax cuts supposed to help address a pandemic outbreak in the U.S.?

They're not. They're meant to prop up the stock market. Trump has staked a lot of his reelection on the economy, and a lot of his argument that the economy is doing well is built on the stock market. The stock market falling as a response to the virus is a threat to his reelection, and the tax cuts are meant to help with that. Public health has nothing to do with it.

The fact that the administration's covid-19 response team includes two economic advisors ought to tell you where the priorities are. Trump himself is already trying to blame any economic downturn, as well as any spread of the infection or deaths, on the Democrats.

Yeah thanks. I guess I should have framed that more clearly as a rhetorical question. My actual question was more along the lines of how in the world are they going to frame economic "stimulus" as a counter to infectious disease? But even that is rhetorical, since clearly - to quote you - they're not. Just a completely nonsensical action and ignore the questions as to why.

Anyone have sources, verification for that email from Dr. Webb. I'm most curious about the virus living for a week on surfaces. Source? Also, do mask help prevent surface transfer of the virus or do they only act as a reminder not to touch our face?

Badferret wrote:

Anyone have sources, verification for that email from Dr. Webb. I'm most curious about the virus living for a week on surfaces. Source? Also, do mask help prevent surface transfer of the virus or do they only act as a reminder not to touch our face?

Masks are not all that effective in preventing transmission compared to hand hygiene. We are all socially trained not to cough in people's faces but it's pretty hard not to touch stuff. A person who has an illness should wear a mask to help prevent them from transmitting the virus particularly through surface contact as they won't get it on their hands, but only N95 masks with a proper fit actually filter the air sufficiently to protect against airborne virus. Those are uncommon and pricey under normal circumstances, let alone under global demand like this, and people generally need to be trained to wear them properly lest the seal be compromised.

Hand washing is the number one preventative. Masks help a bit.

As far as surface lifespan goes, it seems the virus may be able survive on smooth surfaces for a week or so, but it varies by virus and I don't know how infectious it would be at that long a term. For cold viruses, 24 hours or so is typically on the higher-end for likely infection by surface contact, so a week while possible is kind of pushing the boundaries of likelihood.

This study suggests nine days at the high-end, but variable by temp, humidity, surface and virus strain. Again though I don't know how likely one is to get infected at that high-end. Nine days is a pretty long time.

Your text to link here...

Badferret wrote:

Anyone have sources, verification for that email from Dr. Webb.

Searched far and wide and cannot find any legitimate attribution. I would be wary.

James Robb MD is more than 80 years old, but is still publishing as of last year (https://www.researchgate.net/profile...) and the bio/interests in that message are correct. It's either a real message, a real message that someone has modified, or a very well researched fake.

Got a call from a woman at work last night that had ordered a batch of 20 N95 masks, which is the level you need. She never mentioned Covid-19, and we are just a car parts dealer, but it was pretty clear she had thought she found a way to horde some masks.

She could not remember if she ordered from us or another location. We had no record of her order. When I looked up ordering them, we were out. All of the distribution centers were showing zero. When trying to place an order, you get a message saying you need to speak with customer service at the DC before placing any order.

I don't know if they are holding them back as companies should be doing, or we sold out of all of them. The problem is, I have no idea if that woman has a real need for them or not. Maybe she has a project that has nothing to do with coronavirus, so she is trying to get what she needs. Maybe she is traveling and wants protection. Maybe she is just panicking.

But we do need the government to stop human instinct here. We don't need people stockpiling things that are needed in other areas.

Also, aren't masks to prevent the spread? They really don't stop you from getting it, just passing it after you do, right?

Jayhawker wrote:

Also, aren't masks to prevent the spread? They really don't stop you from getting it, just passing it after you do, right?

That’s my understanding. There’s a theory going around that there might be a benefit to masks if they prevent you from touching your face, but in that case any other basic mask would work.

DSGamer wrote:

There’s a theory going around that there might be a benefit to masks if they prevent you from touching your face, but in that case any other basic mask would work.

I've glued sewing needles to my fingernails. It's a alternative yet effective way to stop myself from touching my face, and bonus, I get to pretend I'm Wolverine!

Jonman wrote:
DSGamer wrote:

There’s a theory going around that there might be a benefit to masks if they prevent you from touching your face, but in that case any other basic mask would work.

I've glued sewing needles to my fingernails. It's a alternative yet effective way to stop myself from touching my face, and bonus, I get to pretend I'm Wolverine!

If you're really committed, you'll duct tape two forties to your hands. Can't touch your face if you're playing Edward Fortyhands.

trichy wrote:
Jonman wrote:

I've glued sewing needles to my fingernails. It's a alternative yet effective way to stop myself from touching my face, and bonus, I get to pretend I'm Wolverine!

If you're really committed, you'll duct tape two forties to your hands. Can't touch your face if you're playing Edward Fortyhands.

I've compromised, and glued a bunch of needles to the forties. Now I'm Edward Drunken Porcupine Hands.

The panic has set in over here. Grocery hoarding, runs on masks.

The stuff in that email seems reasonable enough; this appears to be another type of virus that's best combated with good hand hygiene and sick people staying home and wearing masks to prevent spread of droplets. It's consistent with WHO advice and stuff I've seen from the Australian government (which has a similar stance to the US CDC). Though it goes further in terms of stuff to keep your fingers away from your mouth.

If you're really committed, you'll duct tape two forties to your hands. Can't touch your face if you're playing Edward Fortyhands.

But if you split another 40 between your 2 hands, you'd be Edward sixtierhands!

I work for state government here in NC and our department has a few scientist, who have heard from their contacts at DHHS that NC does have suspected positive cases here and are awaiting confirmation test before announcing. I'm guessing that the virus is pretty much nation wide at this point.

Wash your hands.

There were runs on stores here over the weekend- apparently there is no longer any hand sanitizer or antibacterial wipes anywhere in the metro, and toilet paper and bottled water are getting scarce as well.

Bottled water? WTF?

Hand sanitizer? Have people forgotten how to wash their freaking hands?

I don’t love how in a few weeks I’m going to have to pay $100 for a 6 pack of toilet paper.

TheGameguru wrote:

I don’t love how in a few weeks I’m going to have to pay $100 for a 6 pack of toilet paper.

I picture bidet's going for 10 grand a shot, plus installation.

Rat Boy wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

I don’t love how in a few weeks I’m going to have to pay $100 for a 6 pack of toilet paper.

I picture bidet's going for 10 grand a shot, plus installation.

It’s that or risk getting shot over a 24 pack of charmin in the Target Parking lot.

Badferret wrote:

I'm guessing that the virus is pretty much nation wide at this point.

I think you're right.

Thirteen states confirmed as of right now:

WaPo wrote:

Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Massachusetts, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Texas, Wisconsin and Washington state have reported cases of the coronavirus.

With it having been in the wild undetected for six weeks, and with the US being such a mobile society, it has to have spread everywhere.