Interest thread: GWJFL Next

215-555-EEEk

I hope this league gets off the ground... I went out and picked up another copy on my way into work. Any idea when you will kick this one off Mr. Grumpicus?

Assuming we have enough interest (I haven''t surveyed the thread but at a glance, I''d say yes), I''ll start the formal sign-up thread when the GWJFL 2005 playoffs enter round 2 (i.e. this weekend or early next week) and will kick it off very soon after the GWJFL 2005 Superbowl is done. I just don''t feel like having two leagues to manage at once again.

Edit: If I get knocked out of the playoffs early (I play Neo''s high-flying Colts next), that might advance the organizational timeline slightly... but, as I said, the first game won''t happen until the current league is final.

Edit2: All of that being said, if someone wants to take up the mantle of commissioner, they wouldn''t hurt my feelings and I''d be happy to support them in any way necessary.

Well just cover TG and the same deep post he ran over and over again on me and you should be fine. You have a much better runs topping D then I did. If it werent for the 8 separate times he ran that play - it would have been a much different score, but I just couldnt get him covered despite 2-3 man coverage on him - hell once I let Marvin run free and put 3 people on him and he still wnet down the field.

Well just cover TG and the same deep post he ran over and over again on me and you should be fine. You have a much better runs topping D then I did. If it werent for the 8 separate times he ran that play - it would have been a much different score, but I just couldnt get him covered despite 2-3 man coverage on him - hell once I let Marvin run free and put 3 people on him and he still went down the field.

If you can''t cover a guy you gotta just start blitzing. I''ve had that too where double/triple coverage made no difference so I just went back to single and started sending a couple extra guys in. It ain''t foolproof but it can get the job done sometimes.

"Certis" wrote:

If you can''t cover a guy you gotta just start blitzing. I''ve had that too where double/triple coverage made no difference so I just went back to single and started sending a couple extra guys in. It ain''t foolproof but it can get the job done sometimes. :)

Scribbles furiously in his playbook

Also, ignore the run as much as possible and always onside kick. The odds are on your side my friends!

All the votes for no EQ make J a sad panda.

I''d really like to be able to pick a team that''s not the patriots, colts, etc, etc and still do remotely well, but if my experimenting with game settings in singleplayer is any evidence that''s not going to happen

(I know I said I was going to try to stay out of the way but...) Thin, my personal vote is for All Pro, EQ On. Read Bagga''s posts in this thread for an understanding of my logic. (I''m too tired to re-type the same thing already stated.) My invitation for someone else to take over the league still stands but, if I''m running the show, there''s a high probability that those are the settings we''ll be using.

Thanks for the cliffnotes on that link Grumpy.

Having never played the game I''m good with whatever settings we run with. I''ll adapt and dominate, lol.

I picked up the game today at lunch, Xbox should be here this week, but I won''t be Live enabled until after I move to my new apartment which will be the 16th.

Well just cover TG and the same deep post he ran over and over again on me and you should be fine.

To be fair, the post was only deep twice (on a roll outs) as I usually audible a short/medium post-out at the line and TG only had six catches. Also you had Owens going for 175 yards and I had the same complaint you did with TG....Owens is unstoppable even with triple coverage.

I went back and looked at the beating you gave me a few weeks ago and the big difference seemed be that I didn''t let your running game get going and that EJ went off me.

The last game we played Ritchie ran for 200+ yards and though Manning had a nice stats game they all came after the game was over.

Eitherway it was a fun game and could have gone eitherway.

Yeah you taking the middle LB or nickelback and shifting him manually way out of position was a real pain to deal with - in real life - that would have screamed draw - but those dont work in ESPN. I am not a big fan of taking control of players and shifting them manually like that - Offensive line AI doesnt react to that very well.

I am not a big fan of taking control of players and shifting them manually like that - Offensive line AI doesnt react to that very well.

I''d extremely agree with you if you''d said he''d shifted a D-Lineman but how does shifting a MLB/5B screw up the OL? Either way, why go to a draw? In every team I''ve played with, the default run audible is a middle iso (usually strong but a 2nd-audible, rt thumbstick click shifts it to weak) and the RB is going to hit the hole so fast that the DL won''t have time to react and, with no MLB, you''re good for 5-6 yards.

I tried that a couple of times and my O line moved maybe 2 yds forward and that was that... It was as if they were expecting something that wasnt there. Dropping that middle defender almost back to the safety really screwed me up as far as trying to get run blocking from my front 4... Maybe it is good D - at least it worked... My point was more if you drop a defender back 10 yds leaving the middle wide open - the outside receivers - double or even triple covered - you should probably be able to take advantage of that :)... That particular scheme really befuddled my run blocking... Funny as long as I have played this game I didnt realize that rt T-stick did that Thanks for the tip.

"SpyNavy" wrote:

Funny as long as I have played this game I didnt realize that rt T-stick did that Thanks for the tip.

Yeah no kidding, I didn''t know that either. I can''t count how many times I have thought to myself, ""Man I sure wish I could run this weak side instead."" Thx Grumpy. Any other tips? I know that the left thumbstick moves players... that''s about it.

Run through the in-game tutorial mode. It''s where I learned all these ""tricks"".

I''d extremely agree with you if you''d said he''d shifted a D-Lineman but how does shifting a MLB/5B screw up the OL? Either way, why go to a draw? In every team I''ve played with, the default run audible is a middle iso (usually strong but a 2nd-audible, rt thumbstick click shifts it to weak) and the RB is going to hit the hole so fast that the DL won''t have time to react and, with no MLB, you''re good for 5-6 yards.

I did shift the D-Line but only as a whole.....I.E. scrunched them together to protect against Ritchie''s easy gains up the middle and a few times I pushed them out to the edges.

I had to use my LB to play pass defense because of the success TO was having. If fact the 1 INT I got came in just that scenario: TO was double covered and and I brought the LB in to make the play.

When are we going to kick this off Sir Grumpicus? I have been practicing with the Steelers - long live the Black and Gold

Well we need to finish the damn GWJFL 2005 playoffs first. It's not our fault you went and got yerself eliminated so fast!

Yeah well I fell prey to a one trick pony and then made a mistake and that was that. I am really digging Pittsburgh's playbook and I think I finally understand the 3-4 Defense enough to run it. I have been playing online with the general populace (blech) and it has been a nifty Defense to run.

I am really digging Pittsburgh's playbook and I think I finally understand the 3-4 Defense enough to run it. I have been playing online with the general populace (blech) and it has been a nifty Defense to run.

Yep. It's pretty nice.

It is with extreme disappointment that I have to announce I will be unable to participate in the next 2k5 league. I will be unable to play pretty much anything online from the start of June to the end of August.

After which I will be playing online so hard that the son of a whore who died playing CounterStrike will look at me from whatever celestial body he's located around and go, "dude, he just 0wn3d me."

When are we going to kick this off Sir Grumpicus?

Ok, let's start some discussion, anyway.

First off, roll call.

Grumpicus
baggachipz
Highlander (I think - WTF is "I can't say yes, but I couldn't say no." supposed to mean? )
Warlock
LockAndLoad
Thin_J
NeoCell
SpyNavy
ruthlessmuffin
Redhwk
firesloth

I suspect *Legion* might be in but neither of his two posts actually indicated he would. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. Counting him, we currently have 12 interested parties. 2k5 locks you in to multiples of 4 so we need either 12 or 16 (or 8) players. If I missed someone or if you haven't put your name in the hat yet, speak now or forever hold your peace. Be warned, though, if we don't make it to 16, the top 12 players on the list will be the ones that make the cut. Let's see how many I run/scare off.

[size=13][color=#CC0000]If you want to play in this league, do not skim this post.[/color][/size]

1) If you're not 100% committed to getting every one of your games played, please retract now. I'd be much happier with an 8-team league of committed players than a 12/16-team league where we have the games go unplayed every week. This commitment includes not waiting until the last day of the week to get your game scheduled/played. You never know when technical issues beyond your control (lightning storm, ISP crash, etc.) will be a factor and as commissioner, I either have to hold up everyone else while we wait for your procrastinating ass to get your game played or assign the win (subsequently screwing up the stats, frustrating everyone who cares about them - like me) so that we can advance. I understand that we are all GWJ but if your J (or other RL factors) is going to keep you from honoring your commitment, don't make it. Remember that, unlike Halo or Burnout, your non-participation affects everyone.

2) The difficulty settings will be All-Pro difficulty, EQ on. I know these are likely to be the biggest points of contention. If they are a dealbreaker for you, I understand. Additionally, my invitation to hand over the reigns of the league remains open to anyone who doesn't like the way I do things.

2a) All-Pro difficulty: While I personally fear that we've gotten too good to play at All-Pro difficulty (you think Jamal Lewis and Fred Taylor break tackles now? Just wait...), I am willing to listen to the popular concensus (forgive them Certis, they know not what they do). Just remember that what this effectively does is make the AI worse across the board (fire the game up, change difficulty settings in single-player and see what it does to the sliders) and so your DBs will get burned even more often and your linebackers will be even slower to plug the gaps. If thats what you guys want (hey, offensive shootouts are fun, right?), that's fine by me. Of course, your blockers may miss more assignments and you receivers may mess up their routes more often, too. I have no special insight into the AI programming. I am only willing to make this concession in conjuction with turning EQ on so that the superstars are a little less super. Which leads us to...

2b) EQ: According to official documentation, EQ works some mojo that attempts to equalize teams towards an average. Although exact numbers/formula are not official, the best example I've seen is that all players are averaged with the number 80 to achieve a new rating.

For example, take 4 wide receivers, with ratings of 100, 90, 80, and 70. With EQ on, the new ratings would be (100+80)/2=90, (90+80)/2=85, (80+80)/2=80, and (70+80)/2=85. As you can see, the receiver rated at 100 with EQ off is still better than the next receiver in the example, but with EQ on, the disparity (5 points instead of 10) is not as great as before. Again, this is not an official formula but given the less exact official explanations I have seen, it seems to reasonably accurate.

3) Number of weeks (8-16) and maxium interval between rounds (1-7 days). While I do enjoy the fact that a 16-team/16-week schedule means that everyone gets to play everyone else once, this means roughly 4 months of games. It has been my experience that longer seasons leads to greater apathy over time. Obviously, the more teams we have in play, the more significant this option is... but to at least get you thinking about this, we have two choices...

3a) We can have fewer weeks and not everyone will play everyone else. This is what happens in the NFL but over there, the league tries to ensure that better teams have tougher schedules and easier teams have easier schedules. Here, it's just random luck. In (for example) a 16-team, 8-week season, some poor sap may have to play Legion, Swampy, NeoCell, SpyNavy, Highlander, etc. while someone else may avoid them all entirely. Or...

3b) We can have a 16-team, 16-week season with shorter intervals (e.g. 4 days) that are strictly enforced. Now I already mentioned honoring your commitment and doing so in a timely fashion and so all of those issues are simply magnified when the interval is shorter. As such, this is obviously not my preferred option.

As I said, this is obviously more of a factor if we have a larger league so, for now, just assume that we'll have 12 teams. As it is, I wish I could set a 7-day limit and everyone would play their game in the first 3 so we can advance the week and keep things moving... but that hasn't happened yet. Nevertheless, hope springs eternal.

4) Playoff Teams. This is more of an FYI since I have no control over it. 2k5 does not allow 8- or 12-team leagues to have more than 4 playoff teams. This is fine by me since it's what I would have picked anyway. This is the NFL, not the NBA.

5) Weather settings. Personally, I would prefer to just set the weather to "clear". While rain and snow do indeed make things interesting, the (hardware) performance issues that they cause just make the game a bit tedious. That being said, I am open to dicussion on this item. Very likely, it will simply be included as a vote in the eventual "choose your team" thread.

6) All other settings will be the same as in previous leagues... unless someone wants to propose a quarter length shorter or longer than 6 minutes.

7) Draft order. I'm going to have to give it a little thought (and wait for the results of GWJFL 2005) before I can provide an exact order but it will be similar to the draft order of the last two leagues (GWJFL3 and GWJFL 2005) - worst teams pick first, best teams pick last. This is how the NFL sets the draft order for rookies and its seemed to work pretty well for us here.

Well folks, that's it. I promise that, as long as we have at least 8 interested players, the next season will come about. As a matter of fact, I've just decided to go ahead and commit to something of a timeline. Depending in part on how the discussion goes in this thread, some time between now and 5/23, the drafting of teams will begin. Remember that the draft order is affected by the final outcome of GWJFL 2005 so I can't promise that it will happen much before that. Depending in part on how long that takes, the season will start on or around 5/27. Understand that it might move along more quickly but I'm pretty confident that it won't take any longer than that.

I apologize if you find this post too long. Hopefully you see that I actually do give this stuff some thought. If you decide this league is not for you or you want to drop out for any reason, feel free to do so; no hard feelings. If you think you'd like to take a shot at running the league, PM me and we'll discuss it; no hard feelings. If you're ready and willing to commit to the success of this league, think about what I said (especially #1) and post any feedback you like; no hard feelings.

I love football and I love playing 2k5 and I'm happy to oversee the league and facilitate everyone's enjoyment but as I said (probably too much), this is a commitment. Few things make me grumpier than people who don't honor their commitments. If I could charge a refundable deposit, I would.

I think I need a beer. Aaaahhhh! Where was I? Oh yeah, thanks for coming; good luck and I hope you have a good time.

I'm still in, and generally agree with the things you gave a definite stance on like difficulty and especially the EQ setting.

As for the number of weeks and the interval between rounds, I would love a 16 week league that ran faster, but am honestly totally unsure how we would ever get all the games played before the week rolled over given the disparity in everyone's work schedules and the potential time-zone differences.

I would like to think I did pretty well getting my games played, but I suppose the opinion that's important on that one is yours

Again, I'm not picky about the settings really. I just want to play.

EQ on - blech... I thought a majority of us were for EQ off? I will play regardless, but I seem to remember the largest amount of bithing and moaning came from the league where we tried EQ on... That being said - either way it was fun...

I'm in. I have not played a league with EQ on yet so I don't have an opinion either way. Everything else sounds good to me.

Edit to avoid confusion (since my original clarification is on the next page): Draft order == team picking order.

More on draft order: I've done the aforementioned thinking and, assuming 1) no one else joins/drops and 2) Legion beats Grumpicus in the GWJFL 2005 Superbowl (a big assumption, I know but I had to make some sort of guess), the draft order will be as follows:

1 Cabbot
2 firesloth
3 JBWarlock
4 LocknLoad1
5 ruthlessmuffin
6 Redhwk
7 NeoCell
8 baggachipz
9 The Highlander
10 SpyNavy
11 Legion SB
12 Grumpicus

This is based on calculations which take the final results of both GWJFL3 and GWJFL 2005 into consideration. The final results of GWJFL 2005 (specifically, who wins and loses the SuperBowl*) could have a significant impact on this list but for now, you can start that mock draft in your head.

*Example(s): 1) If Grumpicus doesn't make it to the Superbowl AND Legion wins, they're selection locations will flip. For that to happen, NeoCell would have to win the SB and, in that case, he'd drop from 7 to 10. 2) If Certis (who's not participating in this league but is still in the GWJFL 2005 playoffs) goes to the SB instead of Legion, Legion's draft position will go from 11 to 9. 3) There are probably other scenarios that I haven't addressed, but you get the point.

The invitation to join remains open until the GWJFL 2005 SuperBowl is completed. That being said, if we don't get 4 more people, the first 12 who signed up will make the cut.

OK. You twisted my arm. Legion's gotta get his precious revenge sometime.

Have fun, guys. Grumpi, let me know if you need someone to take over a team.

Swampy, get your name on the list (where ya been, man?). We can't get to 16 without having a #13. Across the two leagues, we have 18 active (I didn't count SquirrelMonkey or Pigpen but maybe I'm wrong) players. I don't expect Certis or Fletcher back so that takes us down to a nice even 16.

So I'm calling out (consider it a personal invitation) the following: SwampYankee, Poppinfresh 2k5, PsychoKillerZ, Stric9 (and for good measure even though he already said no, Certis - you know you suck at baseball so come play something at which you're decent ). What about people who played in early seasons (Elysium, JohnnyMoJo) or perhaps haven't joined us yet (I know you play, Gamerdad). Of course, anyone and everyone else who's interested in a little NFL 2k5 action to hold you over until August is welcome to sign up. I'd really like to see a 16-team league so we can bump the number of playoff teams to 8 instead of 4.

Of course, if you can't handle rule #1 (honor your commitment), don't bother. :evil: