Yet another headphone thread

WizKid wrote:
Baron Of Hell wrote:

Thinking about getting the Sennheiser HD 650 but they are pretty penny. Anything cheaper but still good?

Have you looked at the Massdrop ones?

These.

Note: Massdrop is now "drop.com", although the headphones still have Massdrop as part of the product name.

Baron Of Hell wrote:

Thinking about getting the Sennheiser HD 650 but they are pretty penny. Anything cheaper but still good?

My Grado 125s are superb, and incredible bang for the buck at half the price of the Sennheisers. Sound so much crisper than my two wireless sets, both of which are leaders-in-class (Sony WHMX1000-2 for NC and Steelseries Arctis 7 for gaming)

Only downside is they're a 1/4" plug instead of a 3.5mm. Might be an issue depending on your use case and snootyness about extension cables.

Oh boy thanks.

MannishBoy wrote:
WizKid wrote:
Baron Of Hell wrote:

Thinking about getting the Sennheiser HD 650 but they are pretty penny. Anything cheaper but still good?

Have you looked at the Massdrop ones?

These.

Note: Massdrop is now "drop.com", although the headphones still have Massdrop as part of the product name.

I did end up getting these. Came in a nice box and they sound great. I opted not to get the DAC/AMP, cables or ear cushions but now I'm thinking I should have got the DAC/AMP also. Didn't really know what the deal was with them but now I do.

Oh weird, I just noticed that Windows 10 now has a "spatial sound" option with "Dolby Atmos", "DTS Sound Unbound" and "Windows Sonic" options. Is this just a built in 7.1 faker? If so, that might be nice for me when playing games with headphones or watching movies. Instead of going the virtual surround headphones route like a lot of gaming headsets do, I have really nice headphones and a fancy tube amp & DAC setup mostly for stereo music. It's been fine in games, but you don't quite get some of that location feel.

I'll just have to remember to turn it off when I'm not playing games.

Anyone play around with this at all? Which one might be better or are they all kinda the same. I suppose you would set your sound settings in games to surround instead of headphones. I've assumed there's some sort of virtual surround built into games with a "headphones" option, but I've never been clear on that.

My fru-fru gaming set of cans has a DTS 7.1 switch in the software for them. I have no idea what it does, if anything, but I have it turned on.

Jonman wrote:

My fru-fru gaming set of cans has a DTS 7.1 switch in the software for them. I have no idea what it does, if anything, but I have it turned on.

I used to have a little dongle thing that did that. It did seem to work when you go and test the speaker locations and they ding. Looks like Dolby Atmos costs $15 and the DTS one has in app purchases. My guess is it costs the same. I wouldn't mind buying the Dolby Atmos for $15, if it works well. I'm not sure how it will work with my DAC exactly. I would assume it processes the audio before it goes to the DAC, so it should be sorta okay. I'm not too concerned with sound quality when it comes to games, so that should be fine I think.

Dolby Atmos for Headphones is outstanding. Windows Sonic is meh. I haven't tried the DTS solution. Atmos lets you "trick" the system into feeding it 7.1 sound which it then processes into a stereo signal. As far as I'm concerned, the audio magicians at Dolby are the masters of psychoacoustics. It obviously can't be 100% accurate, because everyone's physical ears are different, and how our ears shape the sound is a large part of how we percieve 3D audio for real. Whatever their solution, it works amazingly well for me.

Dolby Atmos for Windows is totally worth the $15. If you are suspicious that it is hokum, check out their demos. It's pretty amazing. Earlier hardware solutions for Dolby Surround were hit-or-miss. A lot of them overprocessed the sound resulting in weird artifacts and a preponderance of midrange. That never happens to me with Atmos.

Some games have Atmos built in to their "headphones" audio setting, like Overwatch. You don't need the system software to get the surround there.

EDIT:

I just tried the DTX Headphone:X free trial and oh my god is it garbage. It completely murdered the treble and bass, even on the "Balanced" setting. The "Spacial" setting was even worse. Even Windows Sonic doesn't massacre the sound as bad as this. Windows Sonic is extremely unsubtle with its channel separation, and it somewhat emphasizes treble, but it doesn't muffle the sound the way DTS Headphone:X does.

My recommendation is still strongly for Dolby Atmos for Headphones.

Sweet! Thanks, BadKen. That'll be perfect for my headphone setup when playing games.

Well, I already bought the Dolby Atmos before your edit, so that's good. Seems fine so far, although Sea of Thieves probably isn't the best test for it.

My Logitech G933s have proven to be awful at leaking sound even with replacement pleather ear pads (just got those today - sad trombone). Since they also no longer stay synced after charging, I need to figure out some headphones that meet the following criteria:

- Under $100. There are good choices just outside reach, but the budget is tight.
- Around ear, closed back.
- DO NOT leak sound. They'll be used for work calls a lot.
- Comfortable for long periods of time with glasses on.
- Corded is fine and is mainly what I'm looking at now, but cordless is possible if they can also convert to corded as needed.
- Microphone won't be used, so dedicated headphones are good.

I've been researching for a good while figuring I'd get here eventually. So far what I keep circling around are Audio-Technica (M40x, M30x), Sony (MDR7506), and Sennheiser (HD280 Pro) but there's likely something I've missed. The wireless options have been too varied to get much of a handle on, and my experience with the Logitechs has left me sour.

This isn't audiophile territory; However, if anyone has advice before I throw a dart at a board I'd be grateful for it.

EDIT: One I missed apparently is the AKG K361, so that's in the running too.

I have experience with both the sony cans and the ATs you mention. They'd all be fine tbh.

The Sony MDR7506 has been my go-to bang-for-your-buck workhorse headphone for a long time. I've bought probably a dozen pairs over the years either for personal use, work, or for friends, and I've never had a bad experience. In the specific use case you describe, where you don't need a microphone, don't need wireless, and don't need them to fold up small for travel, they're ideal. As a bonus, they hold up to being tossed around disrespectfully very well.

Of the ones listed the Sony and Sennheiser are both excellent and will serve your purposes perfectly.

The seal on the Sennheisers is good enough that I have an old worn out pair that still protects my ears better than actual ear protectors bought for that specific use. So I end up wearing them while I mow the grass all summer long. You will not be able to hear people in the room talking quietly to you *at all* if you have any sound playing in them at moderate volumes.

The Audio-Technicas are an IMO a somewhat distant-ish third but that's for entirely subjective sound quality reasons. They would also work just fine for you based on your requirements.

I use Koss Porta-Pros all day because they are the comfiest to me, so maybe I am a poor critic here.

So... uh. I potentially made a stupid based on a good deal.

Over the weekend I found a lightning deal on the AKG K371s for $100, and after several hours of diving down the rabbit hole pulled the trigger. They're pretty darn new (released October of last year), and there were some pretty glaring QA problems with the first batch. One YouTube reviewer got 4 pairs with 4 different problems (link)!

However, those who received good ones found them to be incredible for the money and the latest word is those problems have been handled by Harman/AKG. Reddit is all over these too, but dammit I don't like being swayed by hype...

Anyhow, maybe I was. Your suggestions are the backup plan and I've been wearing the newly arrived K371s after a careful inspection to make sure I didn't get a pair with any physical defects.

So far I've had a couple of calls and listened my way through albums by Pantha du Prince (Black Noise), Massive Attack (Mezzanine), and Sting (A New Day) while working. Now I'm on to some old school Ray Lynch (Deep Breakfast) and had real difficulty making myself pause the music to go get some water.

After a few hours with them on, so far these are way above anything else I've had before. I liked the Logitech G933s before they went kaput, but now hear lots that I was missing. These are also immensely comfortable. Just some minor warmth around the ears due to the good seal. Otherwise they sit so well I can barely tell they're there. Getting a seal over my glasses is easy (just put on the headphones) and there is zero leakage. My microphone is unable to pick up anything even with my head leaned up right next to it.

The next week or so I'm going to be giving these a real workout. I don't want to have any regrets after the return window has passed. There's also this nagging feeling that I asked for advice (which I'm grateful for!) and jumped a different direction. Maybe my own experience in this case will be some payback, and who knows... it's still early days on that.

How DARE you make your own decision!

BadKen wrote:

How DARE you make your own decision!

Hah! One way or another, gonna learn something new.

I'd rather you have an experience you're happy with than be able to say "I told you so." (-:

A couple days in with the AKG K371's. I've used these for about 24 hours all told since Tuesday.

Currently I'm listening through Hello Nasty by the Beastie Boys, and it's effing amazing. The 5Hz to 40KHz range these things have and their tuning really brings out music as it was intended. They might add a smidge at the low end, but it doesn't keep things from being well defined.

With that said, when I listen to music I ripped a long time ago when space was at a premium - I don't get my socks knocked off the way I do with stuff that's in FLAC or 320kbps. Anything lower production value gets the same disappointment.

With games it's similar. Differences in production values really stand out. This is the only space where I've used some EQ settings for the sound to be a bit more fun.

So great... now I'm feeding my brain better stuff, and the usual trade-offs are occurring. Luckily I'm aware of (and resistant to) the progression so common in any tech and how little steps forward can end up costing big money. Ain't happening since I'm happy with where these are sound-wise.

Build-wise these are holding up great, and I'm really using the crap out of them in different places. I really like the mini XLR connector which makes swapping out the cables simple. The long cable is being used with my mic boom at the desk. The short cable is being used with my phone when I'm up and about (phone drives these without a problem - gets way louder than I can stand). The coiled cable is in the box. It's not soft like the others and I haven't found a good place for it. Maybe the living room when I'm watching something on my own.

I'll come back when it's been a week. This weekend is going to be torture testing outdoors while working in the yard along with some testing in the garage while operating power tools. Never a time without projects!

With that said, when I listen to music I ripped a long time ago when space was at a premium - I don't get my socks knocked off the way I do with stuff that's in FLAC or 320kbps. Anything lower production value gets the same disappointment.

If you really notice the difference between 128K MP3 and 320K, that alone tells me those are quality headphones.

Another thought, an hour later:

So great... now I'm feeding my brain better stuff, and the usual trade-offs are occurring. Luckily I'm aware of (and resistant to) the progression so common in any tech and how little steps forward can end up costing big money. Ain't happening since I'm happy with where these are sound-wise.

A set of great cans is a superb investment that can last for many years, if they're built well. If they're high-impedance, like the big Senns, then adding an inexpensive headphone amp can improve the sound quite substantially. (do not overspend!) And using a decent DAC is a good idea. I'm fond of the Burr-Brown sound, for instance, and they have chips that are $3 each in quantity, so units using them don't have to be pricey at all. (the Slimdevices Squeezebox 2s and 3s were awesome for this, until Logitech bought them and shot them dead.) (second edit: looks like TI has mostly discontinued the Burr-Brown branding; they bought the company in 2000, although they were still selling Burr-Brown chips through at least 2005 or 2006. Doesn't look like that's true anymore.)

Generally speaking, you have to spend about ten times as much on speakers to match the quality of a given set of headphones, so they're a great investment.

Avoid further tinkering after that; one great pair of headphones, maybe a headphone amp, maybe a decent DAC, and you're done. Don't chase the audiophile stuff. Audio is well-solved problem, so stick with quality mass-market gear. Boutique brands will probably not be better, and almost certainly will be much more expensive.

Malor wrote:

If you really notice the difference between 128K MP3 and 320K, that alone tells me those are quality headphones.

A set of great cans is a superb investment that can last for many years, if they're built well.

Generally speaking, you have to spend about ten times as much on speakers to match the quality of a given set of headphones, so they're a great investment.

Avoid further tinkering after that; one great pair of headphones, maybe a headphone amp, maybe a decent DAC, and you're done. Don't chase the audiophile stuff. Audio is well-solved problem, so stick with quality mass-market gear. Boutique brands will probably not be better, and almost certainly will be much more expensive.

Last year I bought a Pioneer elite series receiver (second hand) and their Andrew Jones tower and center speakers (new). That was the first time I could tell the difference between 320K and 128K mp3 audio. (I may have been able to with my old JBLs 6 years ago, but I didn't have any HQ audio files at that time.) These AKGs leave our current living room setup in the dust in every way except soundstage. They're also low enough impedance my phone does fine with them.

---

I'm at 1 week now, and have used the AKG K371s every day. They've been connected to every device I use. Phone, laptop, desktop, microphone (as a monitor), and receiver. I've worn them in bed and on the couch. I've worn them while cooking, washing dishes, cleaning, landscaping, and sawing timbers in the garage. They've been folded up and tossed around a lot.

I've just gone over them moving everything back and forth, checking the fit and finish of everything. The only change in them over the past week is that the pads are now broken in a little more, At first they were a little crinkly (felt like some adhesive on the foam loosening up from it being compressed in the box). That's gone now.

End result: I'm keeping them for everyday use. They're light and comfortable using all day even with glasses (though not sure about the seal with really thick frames), naturally go to their best position on my head, sound incredible, zero build problems, and have very nice cables. One thing they probably wouldn't be useful for is exercise like jogging or cycling as they'd move around too much. I would expect to need something else then anyway.

Since these are a new model, if I ever have a problem with them it'll be posted here.

Thanks folks!

I'll just reiterate the "Just enjoy the ones you're happy with" idea.

You got a set you really like. Unless they start to annoy you for some reason... roll with them long term.

Get a new pair when they actually break somehow.

One day I'll post my shamefully stupid headphone collection, but as a "This way lies madness, do not do this" cautionary tale.

Hi, I'm looking for some advice. I recently picked up some new closed back headphones, DT 770 Pro, 250 ohm's.

I am currently using them with my motherboard, GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO WIFI, which is supposed to have a decent amp (and DAC?). I'm not really sure how decent, because I can't find any real stats, or data on it.

The headphones sounds great, but I can't help but think they'd sound better with a dedicated amp and DAC. I can get decent volume, but I wouldn't mind have some more ceiling.

Should I get a dedicated amp/DAC, and if so, which do you recommend? I'm having a hard time finding recommendations for this specific headphone, and this is all new to me.

I'm using them for both games and music.

Thanks!

If you want a good cheapish headphone amp and DAC, you could get the Schiit Magni and Modi. I have the older versions, and it's pretty good and well made. I have some nicer Schiit Audio stuff that I mainly use. I'd probably just use the built in motherboard audio if you didn't want to invest that much.

tuffalobuffalo wrote:

If you want a good cheapish headphone amp and DAC, you could get the Schiit Magni and Modi. I have the older versions, and it's pretty good and well made. I have some nicer Schiit Audio stuff that I mainly use. I'd probably just use the built in motherboard audio if you didn't want to invest that much.

I don't mind paying for an upgrade, as long as it is an upgrade from my motherboard setup. I'm thinking I'd probably need to spend above "cheapish" to get an improvement.

False!
A cheapish, standalone amp and dac or amp/dac will almost certainly be an upgrade over your motherboard setup, but above that move to standalone performance gains by $ invested will continue to shrink as overall price goes up.
This audio engine dac/amp is another good cheapish option.
I've been using one for 5? years which was the point at which I bought it used off Cathadan.

This is really true for almost all audio stuff, that once you buy the basic version of if, the performance rewards beyond that are pretty small.

boogle wrote:

False!
A cheapish, standalone amp and dac or amp/dac will almost certainly be an upgrade over your motherboard setup, but above that move to standalone performance gains by $ invested will continue to shrink as overall price goes up.

Well, I was thinking more of a cheap USB dongle or something as not really being worth it. You're probably right. I'll bet spending $100-200 will get you in the ballpark of anything more than that not making a noticeable difference. I actually looked at those headphones, and yeah, those would benefit from an actual amp too.

I was looking at the Schiit budget options, and they have a little $100 combo that might be a good option and not break the bank.

If you're interested, too, I could sell you my first generation Magni and Modi for $50 plus $10 shipping. I originally got them for use with a Mac Mini and Logic Pro. I won't be using it anytime in the near future, so it wouldn't hurt to get rid of it. They're lightly used and the brushed aluminum color.