Fabulous Final Fantasy Franchise Discussion Catch-all

It's been a long time since I played so my impressions might be different now, but I remember running into the same problem with Materia that I do in other FF games: there are some weird and unique abilities you can get, but it quickly becomes apparent that you're better off focusing on the basic damage spells.

I've always had a crush on status effects, so I remember trying to deck my characters out with sleep and toad and poison and other things, but it ended up being faster and easier to just spam firaga and call it a day. The more interesting spells just don't stick to enemies reliably, and they don't work on bosses at all, even the debuffs.

So in terms of who had what equipped, I moved my damage materia to my active team and ignored the rest. I didn't even bother equipping them on anyone.

The status effects not working a lot and not on bosses was one of the big things I had to get used to when going from Final Fantasy to Dragon Quest - well in reverse.

I never invested in status effects because I play FF first so I never expected them to be helpful but in DQ they are really important.

I just replayed through FF7 last summer so this is still kind of on my mind. Personally I did some switching here and there, but once a character got a materia, it pretty much stayed with them for good. The exceptions were when you had to change your party or a certain character went away for a while, then I'd have to rejigger things a bit. It definitely helped when I noticed the menu options for removing and adding entire lines of materia between characters!

As I recall, I had sort of a prime materia set I'd apply to whoever I was using. Since materia has its own XP (and take a lot to level), that seemed the best way to go. It may be too late, but if you'd like to play around with status effect, the Added Effect materia does the trick.

This guy has forgotten more about FF7 than we will ever know and he makes some interesting tutorial videos. He also swears a lot, so NSFW language. Some of these I didn't even know about.

New trailer sheds some light on our questions about the Honeybee Inn.

*edit*

I also really liked this.

Boy howdy does it look like they are wreckin' this story something fierce. Pretty much what I expected, though. And I can't entirely blame them, either, given their approach. It's not like you can have Sephiroth go unseen the entire first episode while they're in Midgar as the original game did. Fans would riot. Still, seeing Scarlett using a soldier as a footstool and Palmer being... not Palmer, I'm just trying my hardest to brace myself and remember the original game still exists, I'm playing it right now, and it's okay for this to be someone else's Final Fantasy VII.

I'm going to have such mixed feelings playing this game...

Combat still looks fun, at least.

I still wish the voice acting wasn't so cheesy. I'll probably stop noticing while playing, but seeing out-of-context clips just makes everyone sound like they're doing a first read for a high school play.

I realized after watching it that, since I only played the original once, I only have the foggiest memory of the actual plot. The characters are memorable of course, but I don't really recall how everything plays out. The third act is pretty bonkers, I think?

Point being, all the changes will likely not make much of a difference to me. It'll all mostly feel new no matter what.

beanman101283 wrote:

I still wish the voice acting wasn't so cheesy. I'll probably stop noticing while playing, but seeing out-of-context clips just makes everyone sound like they're doing a first read for a high school play.

That seems to be the style of voice acting that Square-Enix likes, and I just don't get it. Kingdom Hearts has the same thing going on.

I think all JRPGs have somewhat cheesy voice acting as a result of trying to replicate to some extent the performances of the Japanese actors. But this is a big step above that, and I'm not sure why.

I will be buying it. Looks very good.

I hadn't watched anything since some of the initial footage. They really went crazy with it, and I'm rather impressed other than the upcoming release will just be one small part, and I'd kind of rather just have a new FF that starts from scratch. Even if that's all they do, it'll be a neat little thing to exist. I finished VII for the first time a few years ago on the Vita and it was a mostly enjoyable experience.

I think I'm mostly excited for all the orchestral arrangements of the soundtrack.

ClockworkHouse wrote:
beanman101283 wrote:

I still wish the voice acting wasn't so cheesy. I'll probably stop noticing while playing, but seeing out-of-context clips just makes everyone sound like they're doing a first read for a high school play.

That seems to be the style of voice acting that Square-Enix likes, and I just don't get it. Kingdom Hearts has the same thing going on.

I think all JRPGs have somewhat cheesy voice acting as a result of trying to replicate to some extent the performances of the Japanese actors. But this is a big step above that, and I'm not sure why.

I think part of it is a mixing issue in the trailer to boost it above the music. It'll fit better in-game, I'm sure.

The cheese part won't go away, but it'll integrate better in the game. For instance, the battle portions of the trailer sounded better mixed than the cutscenes early in the trailer.

ccesarano wrote:

Boy howdy does it look like they are wreckin' this story something fierce. Pretty much what I expected, though. And I can't entirely blame them, either, given their approach. It's not like you can have Sephiroth go unseen the entire first episode while they're in Midgar as the original game did. Fans would riot. Still, seeing Scarlett using a soldier as a footstool and Palmer being... not Palmer, I'm just trying my hardest to brace myself and remember the original game still exists, I'm playing it right now, and it's okay for this to be someone else's Final Fantasy VII.

I'm going to have such mixed feelings playing this game...

Combat still looks fun, at least.

I read your post and watched the video as a result and honestly don’t see what you see. For context, I played FFVII in 1999 on PS1, again in 2003 or so, and most recently when it released last year on Switch.

First, what do you mean about Palmer? He is chubby and mostly bald and has a brown suit. He mentions butter. That was about 3/4 of his persona in the original, so how is this guy not Palmer?

What in Scarlett’s original depiction makes you think using a soldier as a footstool is out of character? Seems spot on to me.

The spot where you see Sephiroth looks like the reactor where Cloud falls and gets separated from Avalanche. I don’t see how it harms the story at all to see him first there, rather than a couple hours later in the Shinra building.

While I’m on the story, it is pretty wrecked in the first place, especially the original English translation. I’d sign off on just about any adjustment to dialogue, and there was plenty of fat to cut if they do put the narrative on the whole under the knife.

I mean, like you said, there are plenty of ways to get that original experience. This is a remake, not a remaster, and I think the distinction in this case is important. If they gave the backgrounds and models a touch-up and re-did the dialogue, I would be mildly interested. What they’ve done is actually exciting. It’s a lot more “new” that what it sounds like you want.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I mean, like you said, there are plenty of ways to get that original experience. This is a remake, not a remaster, and I think the distinction in this case is important. If they gave the backgrounds and models a touch-up and re-did the dialogue, I would be mildly interested. What they’ve done is actually exciting. It’s a lot more “new” that what it sounds like you want.

Agreed. I would have happily played a highly detailed remaster, but I'm much more excited after seeing all of the changes made to the story.

On another note, Red XIII looks perfect, and he sounds exactly like I imagined he would.

Dyni wrote:

On another note, Red XIII looks perfect, and he sounds exactly like I imagined he would.

Every time I replay the game (I'm in the teens now), I cry a bit harder at the conclusion of the Cosmo Canyon story. I don't know how I'm going to handle it with competent voice acting and better music.

Yeah, excited to finally see Red XIII and Reeve! Shame it be years before we see his playable form.

I haven’t been paying very close attention to games since my kiddo was born but she’s maturing and it’s giving me a bit more free time. This is supposed to just encompass Midgar, right? The leviathan looking monster is from Junon.

Blind_Evil wrote:

I read your post and watched the video as a result and honestly don’t see what you see.

The response I expected, admittedly.

First, what do you mean about Palmer? He is chubby and mostly bald and has a brown suit. He mentions butter. That was about 3/4 of his persona in the original, so how is this guy not Palmer?

There was absolutely nothing sophisticated about Palmer. He was big and childish and bounced around a lot. Which, in hindsight, means they probably couldn't think of a way to implement him without seeming "goofy", though... uh... I dunno by what metric you'd be measuring given both the source material and the new anime bullcrap they're throwing in. It's a personality shift, but there are better archetypes you could go for to convey "suit that doesn't actually know what he's talking about and is pretty dumb and ignored by everyone".

I mean this is the guy that shouts "Tax hike! Tax hike! Tra la la!" I don't see that going hand-in-hand with tea and crumpets like the trailer portrays him as. But, let's face it, Palmer's small potatoes and really, who cares about him? Complaining about changes to him are the pickiest of nits.

What in Scarlett’s original depiction makes you think using a soldier as a footstool is out of character? Seems spot on to me.

It's more that it's an exaggeration and, again, goes now into questionable tone of what is goofy. That's about as stereotypical anime as you get to portray your Dominatrix Evil Bad Guy Woman, and while Scarlett was always a selfish, unkind woman, she always seemed like a business woman to me. Shinra was still a business. Evil cyberpunk business, but business nonetheless. This exaggeration feels like it's symptomatic of the over-the-top reinterpretation that I fear the whole thing will be.

A bigger nit to pick, but still a nit-pick.

The spot where you see Sephiroth looks like the reactor where Cloud falls and gets separated from Avalanche. I don’t see how it harms the story at all to see him first there, rather than a couple hours later in the Shinra building.

Only you don't encounter Sephiroth in the Shinra building. The only thing you see of him is the Masamune through the President's back. You don't see Sephiroth until Cloud's flashback at Nibelheim. Is this important? Well... sort of? It depends on when you believe Cloud first "spoke" with Sephiroth, and that's one of the things I'm trying my best to suss out on this replay of mine.

But after writing a whole bunch of stuff... I mean, it's all going to sound like nit-picking, and given we've only seen trailers... yeah, it really is. I cannot deny that. It's basically all a feeling I get watching this. I agree, Final Fantasy VII needed a new translation, but I do not agree it needed a full-blown remake. That Square Enix is making it so big and bombastic with an all-new combat system and expanded world that it'll require multiple 30-40 hour episodes? That's hubris. That's absolute hubris. They easily could have made this a single game with an over-world map like Dragon Quest XI or something, but they don't want to because they have this idea in their head of not just what Final Fantasy, but Final Fantasy VII has to be.

Even though it doesn't have to be that.

It's a fine line, though. I mean, Resident Evil 2 was one of my favorite games last year and that was a pretty major overhaul of the original game, complete with modifications to the narrative. And while I do think there are moments they forget what Ada's character is, they otherwise do a pretty good job of remaining faithful to the original work.

This? I dunno. Maybe it's because FF7 means a lot more to me, maybe it's because I already think Advent Children, Dirge of Cerberus, and Crisis Core did enough to wreck the original game's continuity, or maybe it's because there's enough in these trailers to warrant concern that they're not remaking the original game. They're reinterpreting its legacy instead.

So maybe I shouldn't buy it? I like the look of the combat, admittedly, but perhaps I won't be able to tear that original care for the first game's story out of my mind. I guess I'll find out.

Regardless, I don't think anyone's going to convince me that this looks like a perfectly fine reimagining of the game, nor am I going to convince anyone else that maybe this is going to not be so great in the story department. So I'll keep my tongue firmly held from here on.

I do agree about Red XIII though. I'm gonna put this game right onto Japanese with subtitles, but if they got any English voice-casting right, it was him.

ccesarano wrote:

I mean this is the guy that shouts "Tax hike! Tax hike! Tra la la!" I don't see that going hand-in-hand with tea and crumpets like the trailer portrays him as.

I'm 90% sure his line about butter is from the original.

They're reinterpreting its legacy instead.

I think you hit on something here that's really clarified for me my feelings about this remake and why it's felt so strange to me.

I watch the trailers for VII-R, and I don't really recognize it as Final Fantasy VII. Obviously I recognize the characters and locations and events, but it doesn't feel like they're related on a deeper artistic or aesthetic level.

You mentioned the remake of Resident Evil 2 as a point of comparison. I'd also point to the Playstation 4 remake of Shadow of the Colossus. Both of those remakes updated their respective sources for modern players and expectations, but they still felt like versions of what came before.

VII-R doesn't. Final Fantasy VII feels like a much goofier, much slower, and much less cool game than what we've seen of VII-R so far, and I've really struggled to understand how one could be remade into the other.

But you hit on the element that I was missing: the legacy of Final Fantasy VII. This game isn't about remaking the old game to look like you'd think an RPG would in 2020. It's about reinterpreting the original work in light of all of the things that it's become in the public mind over the course of the last twenty years. It's bigger and cooler and faster and more bombastic because that's the collective memory of Final Fantasy VII.

If you'll excuse the comparison, it reminds me a bit of the Star Wars movie Rogue One. In a lot of ways, Rogue One was a reinterpretation of the original Star Wars—a goofy, earnest fairy tale with spaceships—through the lens of everything Star Wars had become for a lot of fans: a huge and intricate world with grey morals; epic multilayered space battles; and a terrifying, violent antagonist. Based on the films alone, it's hard to imagine the brutal Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One as the same somewhat clumsy Darth Vader of A New Hope even though narratively those two things are just minutes apart! But in the minds of fans, Vader has always been that newer vision.

I feel like I finally "get it" with VII-R. I get what it's doing and who it's doing it for. And that's cool.

SpacePPoliceman wrote:
ccesarano wrote:

I mean this is the guy that shouts "Tax hike! Tax hike! Tra la la!" I don't see that going hand-in-hand with tea and crumpets like the trailer portrays him as.

I'm 90% sure his line about butter is from the original.

It is, from Rocket Town I believe.

Edit: did a little research and the original line calls it “lard” with his tea, another demerit to the translation.

And if I’m wrong about seeing Sephiroth in the Shinra building; you arguably see him in Kalm during the long flashback; then he flies over your head in the transport ship. But! You don’t see the real Sephiroth in the flesh until the Northern Crater, which is terribly communicated in the original translation.

ClockworkHouse wrote:

If you'll excuse the comparison, it reminds me a bit of the Star Wars movie Rogue One. In a lot of ways, Rogue One was a reinterpretation of the original Star Wars—a goofy, earnest fairy tale with spaceships—through the lens of everything Star Wars had become for a lot of fans: a huge and intricate world with grey morals; epic multilayered space battles; and a terrifying, violent antagonist. Based on the films alone, it's hard to imagine the brutal Darth Vader at the end of Rogue One as the same somewhat clumsy Darth Vader of A New Hope even though narratively those two things are just minutes apart! But in the minds of fans, Vader has always been that newer vision.

Heh, one of the things I deleted was a comparison to "if George Lucas remade the original trilogy today", though that doesn't quite adequately cover it either. I also don't say that with the usual condemnation that comes with such an assertion. Having read the book "A Secret History of Star Wars", it actually gave me a better understanding of the prequels and that Lucas' limitations were always there. It humanized him, if that makes sense, rather than view him as a geek god or devil. The more I read the book the more I couldn't help but see how that pulpy action film was transformed due to its success. Darth Vader going from a henchman, the big bad's second-in-command that's the sub-boss before the final boss, to the character the whole franchise would circulate around due to his popularity and adjustments to backstory, has me wondering if Sephiroth hasn't undergone a similar transformation starting as early as Advent Children.

All we can do in the end is wait and see, though. No amount of speculation can say for sure. I have misgivings, and even if they shove Sephiroth left and right with monologues and nonsense, it's not like I can accurately say how everything will turn out (it feels so silly to consider this "episode one" when it's a $60 30-40 hour game).

Maybe there's a purist in me that feels irritated that they're selling this to people off of nostalgia of the original game and this weird excitement to newbies like "Now you'll get to experience it like we did, too!" and it's like... no. No, you won't. That time has passed, and the newbies will find something else to impact them similarly.

Again, thinking of comparisons to Star Wars... guess that means it's time to move on.

hmm. a lot of naysayers on the ff7 remake footage. I'm goosebumps and out of breath over here.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/wLmqkcO.jpg)

Silly, but it amuses me.

I think those images explain why no one wants a PS1 Classic.

It does sit at that uncomfortable time when everything had to be 3d but the hardware wasn't really powerful enough.
Older snes, etc games look better because 2 was more mature at that point and it holds up a little better

Gotta say, upon re-watch, I'm impressed. I wish this weren't FFVII though and instead was a new FF game, but it at least looks like it's coming together nicely.

Meanwhile, the odd 2D game that DID get made for the PS1 tended to look gorgeous.

I feel like if they were making something not silly and goofy, the first three things on the chopping block would be Palmer, Scarlet, and the Honey Bee Inn. Any perceived gulf in vibe I'd chalk up to the original requiring a silent movie level of theatricality in movement and expression. I was always intrigued to see what was different and how, but having been through a certain movie that broke itself trying to emptily recreate exactly what came before, I'm now really intrigued.

If I pick this up (I'd need to borrow a PS4) then I'm leaving the JP voice acting on. Assuming they allow you to do this.

I don't know what to think about it all. VII was over 20 years ago for me. Bringing that dynamism to the combat looks amazing if a bit exhausting to an oldie like me. I hope they retain some of the original compositions and update them for a fuller orchestral arrangement though. The track for when you finish the bike battle and leave Midgar is amazing.