NFL 2019: Championship Weekend!!!

Stele wrote:
*Legion* wrote:

Rice. That's like the easiest question ever.

How did such a smart guy end up a Jags fan?

Teenage rebellion. When I finally grew out of it, it was too late.

IMAGE(https://i.imgur.com/qzkynBR.jpg)

I feel like there are all sorts of valid arguments as to who is the greatest player ever at every position except WR. For WR, I don't see how there's even the vaguest of questions on the GOAT.

MilkmanDanimal wrote:

I feel like there are all sorts of valid arguments as to who is the greatest player ever at every position except WR. For WR, I don't see how there's even the vaguest of questions on the GOAT.

That's not what is being discussed. What's being discussed is for one game. Completely different conversation. One person could just go the easy route and pick Rice because he is the GOAT but someone else could pick someone based on one play that they had in a previous game. I don't think someone would be wrong to pick Lynn Swann or anyone else below.

My head knows it's Rice.

But my heart says Largent.

My argument: Largent never had an elite QB to throw him the ball. Imagine him with any of these passers (all of whom threw to other WRs folks would pick):

Montana
Fouts
Young
Brady

Jayhawker wrote:

Awesome.

Father of Phil Rivers!

Love the bit on Reid's clock management. Ya never know how much that might come into play!

Go KC!

Well, sure, but, again, Jerry Rice has such a ridiculous level of dominance in the playoffs that I still don't know how he's not the easy answer. I mean, Jerry Rice has been retired for about 15 years or so, and, during that time, there have been rules put in/more strictly enforced regarding illegal contact, QB hits, headhunting WRs across the middle . . . everything has focused on making it easier to pass the ball. Even with that, Jerry Rice still dominates all the records for both regular season and playoffs. And Lynn Swann? He's in the HOF because of NFL Films getting a dramatic shot of a couple big catches. His playoff career totals are:

48 receptions, 907 yards, 9 TD.

Jerry Rice?

40 catches, 726 yards, 11 TD.

In the 1988 and 1989 playoffs alone..

Seriously, he's the most dominant player ever. Sure, you could theoretically take somebody else for the one big game, but Jerry Rice was Jerry Rice.

I mean you usually have 2 WRs on every play. 3 for a lot of sets.

Everyone takes Jerry for WR1, but you can have lots of fun debate over who gets WR2 spot

The pick is Davante Adams after today! No brainer!

In all seriousness completely terrified of this 49ers team especially no idea how the Pack will stop Kittle. When I watch him Kelce Ertz etc I get very jealous.

Jimmy Graham for obvious reasons hasn't exactly been that person. Really hoping for someone in the draft that isn't a project (need now people) or FA.

Football is football though. There's a world where Derrick Henry just runs all day and we hardly see Mahomes. Jimmy G has some jitters and 2-3 turnovers vs 0 for the Packers. We get the Titans Packers SB no one ever wanted.

Hopefully no blow outs or ridiculous reffing calls.

I just assumed everyone was joking who didn’t pick Jerry Rice.

I’m going TO over Moss for my 2nd option.

And one big game is what the question was. Dominant over time is not the same as dominant at a point in time. Is Emmitt Smith better than Jim Brown? Certainly he had a longer career and had some dominant years.

Again, I'm not taking Rice. I'm taking Julio Jones. He has the following:

2nd, 13, and 25th best seasons in receiving yards (Rice is 3rd, 29th, and 45th)
Jones hit 12,000 recieving yards in 125 games. 17 fewer than Rice.
Jones is 6, 20, and 26 for single game records. Rice is 8 and 37.

Rice had a fantastic career and is undoubtedly the GOAT. He had, by far, the greatest career of any reciever. He was a great player but for a single point in time I'm taking Julio. He has better single games, better single years and didn't have multiple HOF QBs throwing to him. I won't fault people for taking Rice but to say he's the only choice is to bury your head in the sand about just how good Julio has been for the first 9 years of his career. And that doesn't even take CJ into consideration who had the single best season by a WR ever.

For one game with the fate of the world riding on it ... Steve Smith. Agent 89 is the most competitive person of all time, and that's saying a lot in a league full of alphas.

But if we're arguing over who's the greatest WR of all time, geez, y'all, it's Rice, easy. Don't overthink this.

Best WR playing this weekend? Huh. It's either Kittle or Kelse, and neither are technically WRs. I don't know what exactly that says about this pass-happy league.

Julio Jones has played in an era where passing stats are highly inflated to put it mildly, and is without question one of the best receivers of the decade. His big game experience is one game and having a middling performance in what I would say is the singly-biggest choke in the history of professional sports. He's never taken a team on his back in the playoffs like Larry Fitzgerald in that Arizona-Pittsburgh Super Bowl year or how TO did to almost drag the Eagles past the Patriots.

Modern passing stats are stupid. You know how has the 8th most passing yards in a season in NFL history? Jameis Winston, this year, with all his interceptions. 9 of the top 10 highest passing yards in NFL history are this decade (Marino in 1984 is 10th), 18 of the top 20. are in the 2010s. Raw stats are just loopy these days due to rule changes. Everybody is passing like crazy.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

And one big game is what the question was. Dominant over time is not the same as dominant at a point in time.

I think everyone agrees with that, but the whole "one big game" is something the best have all had. Even some not best guys have had em.

The question is basically asking "who is your favorite?" I'd take any of Rice-Largent-Moss-Julio-Megatron-TO-etc for one big game. The article I linked also shows guys I've forgotten about, but Andre Johnson was boss at his peak and he never had great QBs. Then, of course, you'll see their second best game is Jimmy Smith and I'd take him too.

Then you look at this list and you see some other names. AB, Josh Gordon, etc. I'd take any of em at their peak.

I’m taking Rice’s domination in an era where passing wasn’t inflated and his Uber preparation. I’d trust Rice in a big game more than anyone. He came to play every game no matter what.

TheGameguru wrote:

I’m taking Rice’s domination in an era where passing wasn’t inflated and his Uber preparation. I’d trust Rice in a big game more than anyone. He came to play every game no matter what.

This.

The point of the "pick a guy to play one game" question is that you don't necessarily get the guy's career best performance - in fact, you assume you don't. You're getting his "any random Sunday" performance.

High volatility players are the antithesis of this question. Their performances average out to a high level over time. You want the guy who is steadily a top player at the position week in and out.

And no WR is remotely as steadily a top performer as Rice. No other football player at *any* position is as steadily high as Rice, including his quarterbacks.

Reporter: What is the identity of the Kansas City Chiefs defense?

Tyrann Mathieu: Relentless attitude and championship swagger.

First, that is why Mathieu was the most important acquisition this off-season. Second, holy crap, it is insane that the Chiefs have changed so much from Week 10 that this is not a crazy statement. And since that Week 10 loss in which the defense gave the game away to the Titans, today is going to say a lot about how much the defense has actually improved. It's the perfect test.

Oh, and Chris Jones is active and starting.

Jay Gruden interviewing for the Jags OC job.

Yes please, give me Gruden and not Linehan. He'll make a fine interim head coach...

*Legion* wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

I’m taking Rice’s domination in an era where passing wasn’t inflated and his Uber preparation. I’d trust Rice in a big game more than anyone. He came to play every game no matter what.

This.

The point of the "pick a guy to play one game" question is that you don't necessarily get the guy's career best performance - in fact, you assume you don't. You're getting his "any random Sunday" performance.

High volatility players are the antithesis of this question. Their performances average out to a high level over time. You want the guy who is steadily a top player at the position week in and out.

And no WR is remotely as steadily a top performer as Rice. No other football player at *any* position is as steadily high as Rice, including his quarterbacks.

Where are your numbers to back this up? I can totally get behind this as a reason to pick him but it seems like you are basing it on feelings.

Look at his 1995 season (his best season statistically). He had 7 games under 100 yards and 3 games under 50 yards. Out of 16. Almost half of his games were under 100 yards. That's not very consistent, IMO.
Now look at Julio's 2015. Also 7 games under 100 yards. But only one game under 50. Out of 17.
Now look at CJs 2012 Season. 5 games under 100 yards and 2 under 50. Out of 17.

Rice is essentially a better version of Emmitt Smith. A great player who played a very long time. There is still 0 question that he's the GOAT. He had a very long career and was at the top of the game for much of that. But so much of his legacy is based on the length of him being very good on a Bill Walsh team.

EvilHomer3k wrote:

Look at his 1995 season (his best season statistically). He had 7 games under 100 yards and 3 games under 50 yards. Out of 16. Almost half of his games were under 100 yards. That's not very consistent, IMO.
Now look at Julio's 2015. Also 7 games under 100 yards. But only one game under 50. Out of 17.
Now look at CJs 2012 Season. 5 games under 100 yards and 2 under 50. Out of 17.

You're comparing inflated 2010s passing numbers with the 1990s again.

*Legion* wrote:
EvilHomer3k wrote:

Look at his 1995 season (his best season statistically). He had 7 games under 100 yards and 3 games under 50 yards. Out of 16. Almost half of his games were under 100 yards. That's not very consistent, IMO.
Now look at Julio's 2015. Also 7 games under 100 yards. But only one game under 50. Out of 17.
Now look at CJs 2012 Season. 5 games under 100 yards and 2 under 50. Out of 17.

You're comparing inflated 2010s passing numbers with the 1990s again.

Jameis Winston is a better QB than Dan Marino.

Spoiler:

JAMEIS WINSTON IS NOT A BETTER QB THAN DAN MARINO.

Did we really need to see an 800th Picard commercial instead of the ruling?

I am now rooting for the Titans. I want to see Tannehill win the Super Bowl putting on a sub-Bob Griese 1972 performance.

Also, uh, that's a pretty surprising ad to see there, Anquan. I mean, good, but wow. Gonna be a whole lotta yelling about it on Twitter.

It's also worth pointing out that biggest statistical season often represents an outlier, not necessarily peak.

The 2015 Falcons season was the year Roddy White's career took a nosedive and ended, and the Falcons had no other target for Ryan. Julio got force-fed because there was nobody else. Of course he would rarely fall below 50 yards, he had 203 targets. You're just counting how unbalanced a passing attack was. His numbers dropped when they sufficiently replaced Roddy. That drop doesn't mean Julio started playing worse, because he didn't.

Ricer has MORE under 100 yard games in a 16 game season than either Julio or CJ in a 17 game season. Are the numbers inflated? I don't know. But almost half or Rice's games were under 100 yards. That's a lot more than the under 1/3 that CJ had. You can talk about inflated numbers all you want but I'll take a guy who has a 1/3 chance to have a bad game over a guy who has almost 50%. Even with "inflated numbers' that's a significantly better chance at a good game.

How much are they inflated? How much of that is due to 17 games per season? Unless you know the answers to these questions I don't see how you can fairly compare them and say that based on inflated numbers Rice is more consistent. You are basing your answer on feelings. You feel rice was more consistent. Show me some numbers that back up your feelings rather than just say that the numbers are inflated. What's inflated? The yards? The number of passing attempts? The catch percentage?

In 1983 Marino attempted 623 passes. In 2019 Winston attempted 626. That's actually a lower number per game (lower passes per game = fewer passing yards per game = fewer 100 yard games). Yes, passing attempts have risen since the 70s but not since the 80s. The second most passing attempts ever came in 1994 when Drew Bledsoe attempted 691 passes. He's got a nice streak of 3 years with 691, 623, and 636.

Big game receivers make this catch

*Legion* wrote:

It's also worth pointing out that biggest statistical season often represents an outlier, not necessarily peak.

The 2015 Falcons season was the year Roddy White's career took a nosedive and ended, and the Falcons had no other target for Ryan. Julio got force-fed because there was nobody else. Of course he would rarely fall below 50 yards, he had 203 targets. You're just counting how unbalanced a passing attack was. His numbers dropped when they sufficiently replaced Roddy. That drop doesn't mean Julio started playing worse, because he didn't.

Seriously? Now you're just making excuses. Look at Rice's 1996 season. Second most receiving yards that year? Derik Loville with a whopping 662. But that's different why?

I hope you'll all give me the proper thanks for starting this incredibly stupid argument.