2019 MLB Season Catch-All

Last I saw Hinch was still denying he knew about it, which is absurd and makes me lose pretty much all respect for him. He should be suspended for the year and however much longer until he admits his guilt.

The players who cheated should be punished as well.

LeapingGnome wrote:

Last I saw Hinch was still denying he knew about it, which is absurd and makes me lose pretty much all respect for him. He should be suspended for the year and however much longer until he admits his guilt.

The players who cheated should be punished as well.

He admitted he knew about it but didn’t approve and made some feeble attempts to stop it. Never reported the issue higher and claimed it was player and Cora driven. It’s a stunning level of incompetence.

Can’t go after players as that’ll start a huge fight with the MLBPA and the CBA is up soon. It’s better for the league to put the onus on management to make sure the players abide by the rules.

Logan Morrison is claiming this goes as far back as 2014 and he’s seen it on other teams.

Rumour going around is Cora will receive a lifetime ban.

Fedaykin98 wrote:

Debating whether to wear my Wolrd Series Champions hat to PAX this weekend. It is my best hat.

If it's only a one year suspension, I'll bet those guys get snapped up by another team in a year.

Since Luhnow had to steal the tech from his previous employer to revamp their scouting, I doubt it. Maybe there is a spot in the Patriots' organization?

Vector wrote:

Rumour going around is Cora will receive a lifetime ban.

And you thought they were pissed in those parts about how Tom Brady was treated by the NFL.

Vector wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Last I saw Hinch was still denying he knew about it, which is absurd and makes me lose pretty much all respect for him. He should be suspended for the year and however much longer until he admits his guilt.

The players who cheated should be punished as well.

He admitted he knew about it but didn’t approve and made some feeble attempts to stop it. Never reported the issue higher and claimed it was player and Cora driven. It’s a stunning level of incompetence.

You’re right I was confusing him with Luhnow who still claims he didn’t know. I agree if Hinch knew and didn’t stop it the only reason was because he didn’t want to stop it and he is complicit.

LeapingGnome wrote:
Vector wrote:
LeapingGnome wrote:

Last I saw Hinch was still denying he knew about it, which is absurd and makes me lose pretty much all respect for him. He should be suspended for the year and however much longer until he admits his guilt.

The players who cheated should be punished as well.

He admitted he knew about it but didn’t approve and made some feeble attempts to stop it. Never reported the issue higher and claimed it was player and Cora driven. It’s a stunning level of incompetence.

You’re right I was confusing him with Luhnow who still claims he didn’t know. I agree if Hinch knew and didn’t stop it the only reason was because he didn’t want to stop it and he is complicit.

Exactly. Either approved it through inaction or is a absolute coward. It's an interesting tactic he took by claiming he was incredibly ineffective at managing those he was responsible for.

Crazy to think the Dodgers lost to the Astros that were cheating and then to the Red Sox that were cheating. And yet nothing done about that.

If the gag order story's any indication, this is far more widespread than teams that have Alex Cora in common and the MLB's desperate to make this go away. A league with dwindling national interest does not need an integrity crisis right now.

Guess the Red Sox weren't going to wait for it as they've fired Cora.

Not surprising. Thought they’d wait until the punishment was handed out but there’s no point after yesterday.

I don’t buy that this is another every team does it. I heard that when Spygate hit. Oh it’s no big deal all teams video tape sidelines. Bullsh*t.

TheGameguru wrote:

I don’t buy that this is another every team does it. I heard that when Spygate hit. Oh it’s no big deal all teams video tape sidelines. Bullsh*t.

Baseball has a long history of cheating being part of the game, and that includes trying to steal signs. Which I 100% believe every team tries to do. Hell, we did would try it while sitting on the bench in little league. What's different here is using video to do it and then an obvious way to relay the information.

billt721 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

I don’t buy that this is another every team does it. I heard that when Spygate hit. Oh it’s no big deal all teams video tape sidelines. Bullsh*t.

Baseball has a long history of cheating being part of the game, and that includes trying to steal signs. Which I 100% believe every team tries to do. Hell, we did would try it while sitting on the bench in little league. What's different here is using video to do it and then an obvious way to relay the information.

That's the cheating the part. Players are allowed to interpret the signs they see and relay them. That's why catchers change up the signs with a man on second. But teams are forbidden from using video to decipher and then use during games to signal hitters. Batters are also not allowed to look back at the catcher while in the box.

But it is damn hard to catch teams doing it. so when MLB does, they need to be a whole more harsh than they were. Instead of being proud of their team for doing whatever it takes, fans need to see their favorite team face some substantial penalties. Take them off TV for a season. Add a penalty tax to their tickets. Don't let them add any players to their system for 5 years.

As it is, it seems most Astros fans think this has all been worth it.

Is there actually a rule against batters looking back at the catcher while in the box? I thought that fell more into the category of "you can try it, but the pitcher and catcher are likely to notice it and will intentionally mix up the signs and/or you'll catch the next one in your ear."

mrlogical wrote:

Is there actually a rule against batters looking back at the catcher while in the box? I thought that fell more into the category of "you can try it, but the pitcher and catcher are likely to notice it and will intentionally mix up the signs and/or you'll catch the next one in your ear."

Nope, no rule against looking back at the catcher.

Rat Boy wrote:

If the gag order story's any indication, this is far more widespread than teams that have Alex Cora in common and the MLB's desperate to make this go away. A league with dwindling national interest does not need an integrity crisis right now.

Apparently this was all Beltran's idea because like Morrison, he'd seen it used on a previous team he'd played for. I think the Mets should move on from Beltran but I fully expect them to do what they always do and let him stay.

Nothing the Mets do is predictable. I can see them promoting Beltran over this.

Jayhawker wrote:
billt721 wrote:
TheGameguru wrote:

I don’t buy that this is another every team does it. I heard that when Spygate hit. Oh it’s no big deal all teams video tape sidelines. Bullsh*t.

Baseball has a long history of cheating being part of the game, and that includes trying to steal signs. Which I 100% believe every team tries to do. Hell, we did would try it while sitting on the bench in little league. What's different here is using video to do it and then an obvious way to relay the information.

That's the cheating the part. Players are allowed to interpret the signs they see and relay them. That's why catchers change up the signs with a man on second. But teams are forbidden from using video to decipher and then use during games to signal hitters. Batters are also not allowed to look back at the catcher while in the box.

But it is damn hard to catch teams doing it. so when MLB does, they need to be a whole more harsh than they were. Instead of being proud of their team for doing whatever it takes, fans need to see their favorite team face some substantial penalties. Take them off TV for a season. Add a penalty tax to their tickets. Don't let them add any players to their system for 5 years.

As it is, it seems most Astros fans think this has all been worth it.

Exactly.. and even if its more widespread beyond the venn of these two teams.. why not send a harsh message and make the penalty really hurt.. As it stands right now the actual beneficiaries of this faced zero penalty. Houston and Boston got WS wins.. tons of money was made all around because of that and yet zero financial or actual penalty was given down.

It’s interesting with the public seeing this as a slap on the wrist while baseball people see it as a very strong punishment.

Personally, I think it’s a pretty solid punishment based on all the complicated factors. The main controllers of the franchise lost their jobs and should be effectively black balled from influence in the MLB. The owner was fined the max amount and rich people hate losing money for any reason. The team loses extremely valuable draft picks for two years (estimated value of about $28m). Beltran should have got punished but that’ll be up to the idiotic Mets and he should lose any HOF argument over this.

I would have been happier with even harsher punishments but I’m not an Astros or Red Sox fan.

Vector wrote:

It’s interesting with the public seeing this as a slap on the wrist while baseball people see it as a very strong punishment.

Personally, I think it’s a pretty solid punishment based on all the complicated factors. The main controllers of the franchise lost their jobs and should be effectively black balled from influence in the MLB. The owner was fined the max amount and rich people hate losing money for any reason. The team loses extremely valuable draft picks for two years (estimated value of about $28m). Beltran should have got punished but that’ll be up to the idiotic Mets and he should lose any HOF argument over this.

I would have been happier with even harsher punishments but I’m not an Astros or Red Sox fan.

It's hard for me to understand how not taking away championships won by cheaters does anything to discourage cheating. Their fans should know better. You love a team because they are good. And when they let you down, you hold them accountable.

Vector wrote:

It’s interesting with the public seeing this as a slap on the wrist while baseball people see it as a very strong punishment.

Personally, I think it’s a pretty solid punishment based on all the complicated factors. The main controllers of the franchise lost their jobs and should be effectively black balled from influence in the MLB. The owner was fined the max amount and rich people hate losing money for any reason. The team loses extremely valuable draft picks for two years (estimated value of about $28m). Beltran should have got punished but that’ll be up to the idiotic Mets and he should lose any HOF argument over this.

I would have been happier with even harsher punishments but I’m not an Astros or Red Sox fan.

I think baseball people see this as a slap on the wrist as well as it seems like the punishments were handed out in a way to appease Crane and the Astros. They're giving up draft picks at the end of the early rounds but with the Astros current talent on the roster, those picks would likely wind up as trade fodder anyway. They're fined $5 million, which is apparently the max fine the commissioner can levy. Coach and GM were suspended/fired (and are predicted to get jobs in 2020) but the Astros can easily fill the shoes from within without missing a beat...and oh by the way, Crane recoup's more than the fine by not paying out those salaries. And they get to keep a championship they clearly cheated to obtain. So what exactly is the punishment?

There was a quote I saw from a rival GM yesterday. He was asked if he would exchange the fine and draft picks for a ring and his answer was something like, "I can't say I would do it, but I also can't say I wouldn't do it."

Taking away a championship was never on the table. Same as punishment for players. Neither were never going to happen. I would have liked to see the Astros and Red Sox stripped of their banners and names on titles. Same as the Patriots should have been stripped of a few of theirs.

Luhnow and Hinch won't get jobs next year. I'm not convinced they'll get jobs again without huge public and media outcry.

I'm not saying that I want to see Gabe Kapler implicated in all this during his time as the Philles manager, but on top of grossly mishandling sexual assault allegations, not understanding the adverse affects of prolonged exposure of ultra violet radiation to sensitive parts of the male anatomy, but he also peeled the skin off of 40 Chicken McNuggets before eating them. But if reworking a stadium's video feeds to record catcher's signals to transmit to a monitor in the home clubhouse gets one fired from a baseball team just before spring training...

And his niece has some things to say.

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObNXd9WAAEEnq7?format=png&name=900x900)

IMAGE(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EObNXeHX0AEAX0H?format=png&name=small)

There is some WILD NONSENSE going on on Twitter today, from an account that was allegedly Carlos Beltran's niece to Carlos Beltran's family saying that's not his niece to Gary Sheffield, Jr. claiming that it's a MLB player's burner account.

Congratulations baseball, you've finally achieved a NBA-level of absurd drama.

In the meantime, I leave you with this gem:

KyleNeubeck wrote:

Apex sports radio call just now on @MarksReeseWIP where a guy argued Americans should be pro-Astros cheating because “we would all be speaking Japanese” if America didn’t steal signs during World War II

God bless us, every one.

https://www.mlb.com/cut4/jose-altuve...

It's also perfect that he didn't let his teammates tear off his jersey in celebration of the most exciting and definitely most important few minutes of any baseball game this season.

No, really, he didn't. Here he is making sure they understand NOT to do that:

He made sure to tell them not to tear off his jersey, because ... he said he's "too shy."

Specifically, as he joked with Ken Rosenthal after the game, the last time he had his jersey torn off after a game-winning hit, "I got in trouble with my wife."

This is the best offseason ever.

The Mets got a pretty raw deal. But that ending is hilarious.

Not quite as hilarious about the pearl clutching over cheating in professional sports. Cheating in professional sports is rampant; it probably always has been, and certainly will continue to be for at least as long as there is a lot of money involved. FWIW, I'm not saying being caught cheating shouldn't have consequences, just that the 'distraught' and over the top reactions of fans seems pretty bizarre to me. Is the average sports fan really that clueless?

absurddoctor wrote:

The Mets got a pretty raw deal. But that ending is hilarious.

Not quite as hilarious about the pearl clutching over cheating in professional sports. Cheating in professional sports is rampant; it probably always has been, and certainly will continue to be for at least as long as there is a lot of money involved. FWIW, I'm not saying being caught cheating shouldn't have consequences, just that the 'distraught' and over the top reactions of fans seems pretty bizarre to me. Is the average sports fan really that clueless?

I think its disingenuous to equate what the Astros and RedSox did to garden variety "cheating". I'm sure that Pitchers will take any edge they can get away with.. and batters will try some things but that level of organized cheating isnt that common.